What's new
  • ICMag with help from Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest in November! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!

question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

S

sbeanonnamellow

Well-known member
The 90's haze x Golli is definitely towards the top of the list in terms of which seeds I'd like to acquire and add to the collection next. I heard mention of a Gypsy Thai X ohaze soon to come from Mac too! Stoked on that one BIG time.

It definitely brings a certain sadness near to hear you didn't find an agreeable resolution with yourself and AGseedco. It's the community, and love within, that truly makes this hobby great. I really appreciate your words and the conversation too. Wishing you a wonderful season and plentiful top shelf haze! Much love
 
P

Piff_cat

Well-known member
big picture cannabis is not native to colombia or south america in general. past few years due to the new legal landscape alot of genetic information concerning genotype, phenotype, chemotype and the connections between have been uncovered. its much more constructive to approach the situation from a life history/chemotype lens.
tibet, yunnan, xinijiang, nepal, southeast india, korea, japan, north vietnam this is the starting point where humidity, elevation/altitude, herbivore/insect interaction, heavy metals, dli all these factors shape the growth habit, terpenes etc of primal cannabis.
plants which ended up in colombia could have traveled several routes-
pacific- either east from the austronesian pacific or landbridge to north america and then south. theres some pretty solid evidence including ainu population haplotypes popping up in incan populations and the sweet potato that incursions into the west coast of south america happened earlier then expected.
mexico is a big one migrating south from the land bridge, the natives to oaxaca were skilled cannabis growers who may have predated the spanish with cultivation. these lines almost certainly ended up in colombia.
south africa- a huge biodiverse enviorment coupled with early and often cannabis use and trade created dozens of "landraces" especially affected by high dli and heavy metals like copper. huge variations in altitude a big factor in phenotype plasticity. since most south african lines started in tropical india(most likely orissa) there was probly amaglamation in collombia between lines that went india to s africa to s america and those who went directly from india to s america. then youve got the spanish and portugese bringing lines to brazil which then bounced back to west africa.

maternal haplotypes may be the best shortcut to determine parentage. there is no recombination in the mitochondria so the mothers haplotype will be passed down unchanged thru generations. this was a big help in identifying south africas indian heritage. not to say the last stop in colombia or wherever else is irrelevant, but it is not the identifying characteristic of a line.

the lynch dataset is the most recent compilation which discovered the division of nld into 2 groups- NLD II the basal group of limited admixture from se asia and the more recent group NLD I then there are several other dendograms which group the lines by snp mutations. heres a few to check out. first 3 are info grouping strains showing haze as basal. then a couple haplotypes on landraces also useful

link.springer.com

The origin of the genus Cannabis - Genetic Resources and Crop Evolution

Chloroplast markers (cp markers) are the useful instrument for cannabis (syn. hemp, Cannabis sativa L.) to study relationships of accessions between different geographic origins. In an alignment of three published plastomes 38 chloroplast polymorphisms were identified from which 8 cp markers...
link.springer.com link.springer.com
this is a great paper because it matches the hops maternal haplotype to a wild landrace from yunnan which really gives us a starting point

this paper really builds on the first one because it determines haplotypes within china and discovers an intermediate group from 27 to 42 which is part of the drug group, the most diverse dispelling the assumption that 30 and below is drug and above is not. notice yunnan, tibet and xinijijang are very diverse
www.frontiersin.org

Frontiers | Latitudinal Adaptation and Genetic Insights Into the Origins of Cannabis sativa L.

Cannabis is one of the most important industrial crops distributed worldwide. However, the phylogeographic structure and domestication knowledge of this crop...
www.frontiersin.org www.frontiersin.org
1662323852979.png


then here is a haplotype paper with a broader view on landraces. big takeaways here are the india to africa connection, korea having its own haplotype, and the south africa to colombia connection
1662324235565.png
 

Attachments

  • bpts_a_1265363_sm2609-1.pdf
    271.6 KB · Views: 120
  • KaneGBS_WGS3_02102015_str_clades.pdf
    3.7 MB · Views: 109
  • bpts_a_1265363_sm2630-1.pdf
    350.6 KB · Views: 104
xet

xet

Active member
Piff_cat said:
big picture cannabis is not native to colombia or south america in general. past few years due to the new legal landscape alot of genetic information concerning genotype, phenotype, chemotype and the connections between have been uncovered. its much more constructive to approach the situation from a life history/chemotype lens.
tibet, yunnan, xinijiang, nepal, southeast india, korea, japan, north vietnam this is the starting point where humidity, elevation/altitude, herbivore/insect interaction, heavy metals, dli all these factors shape the growth habit, terpenes etc of primal cannabis.
plants which ended up in colombia could have traveled several routes-
pacific- either east from the austronesian pacific or landbridge to north america and then south. theres some pretty solid evidence including ainu population haplotypes popping up in incan populations and the sweet potato that incursions into the west coast of south america happened earlier then expected.
mexico is a big one migrating south from the land bridge, the natives to oaxaca were skilled cannabis growers who may have predated the spanish with cultivation. these lines almost certainly ended up in colombia.
south africa- a huge biodiverse enviorment coupled with early and often cannabis use and trade created dozens of "landraces" especially affected by high dli and heavy metals like copper. huge variations in altitude a big factor in phenotype plasticity. since most south african lines started in tropical india(most likely orissa) there was probly amaglamation in collombia between lines that went india to s africa to s america and those who went directly from india to s america. then youve got the spanish and portugese bringing lines to brazil which then bounced back to west africa.

maternal haplotypes may be the best shortcut to determine parentage. there is no recombination in the mitochondria so the mothers haplotype will be passed down unchanged thru generations. this was a big help in identifying south africas indian heritage. not to say the last stop in colombia or wherever else is irrelevant, but it is not the identifying characteristic of a line.

the lynch dataset is the most recent compilation which discovered the division of nld into 2 groups- NLD II the basal group of limited admixture from se asia and the more recent group NLD I then there are several other dendograms which group the lines by snp mutations. heres a few to check out. first 3 are info grouping strains showing haze as basal. then a couple haplotypes on landraces also useful

link.springer.com

The origin of the genus Cannabis - Genetic Resources and Crop Evolution

Chloroplast markers (cp markers) are the useful instrument for cannabis (syn. hemp, Cannabis sativa L.) to study relationships of accessions between different geographic origins. In an alignment of three published plastomes 38 chloroplast polymorphisms were identified from which 8 cp markers...
link.springer.com link.springer.com
this is a great paper because it matches the hops maternal haplotype to a wild landrace from yunnan which really gives us a starting point

this paper really builds on the first one because it determines haplotypes within china and discovers an intermediate group from 27 to 42 which is part of the drug group, the most diverse dispelling the assumption that 30 and below is drug and above is not. notice yunnan, tibet and xinijijang are very diverse
www.frontiersin.org

Frontiers | Latitudinal Adaptation and Genetic Insights Into the Origins of Cannabis sativa L.

Cannabis is one of the most important industrial crops distributed worldwide. However, the phylogeographic structure and domestication knowledge of this crop...
www.frontiersin.org www.frontiersin.org
View attachment 18753005

then here is a haplotype paper with a broader view on landraces. big takeaways here are the india to africa connection, korea having its own haplotype, and the south africa to colombia connection
View attachment 18753012
Click to expand...
I would like to add an addendum in that recent information alludes to a direct connection between the South American varieties being of Angolan origin due to the slave trade. It could be they were naturalized to the terroir of Angola for some time and came from tibet, yunnan etc from beyond this.
 
JohnnyChicago

JohnnyChicago

Well-known member
RingtailCanyon said:
Tom Hill and Neville said that haze reminds them of the best thais and sam is saying that original haze was 100% colombian, but here says it has a bit of Thai in it? Well, which is it? There's a post from Sam saying he got different info from the different haze brothers. So how does he know it was 100% Colombian? Most old timers say that Thai Stick was the best.
Click to expand...

DNA sequenzing?

His post from 2015 is in this thread. He got the samples from me only in 2017 and was still very interested to get them. Therefore I am sure he has done some testing on the OH. And that is the most logical answer to your question.

Sam_Skunkman said:
How do I get a leaf to test the DNA of the fasciated stem plant? Get your post count to over 50 so I can PM you.
I bet the mother I used to make the seed was also fasciated, I like her and used her a lot. When a small clone she acts normal when over 3 feet tall she fasciates every time with the top of the central stalk. I have had her for over 20 years. Not many reported fasciated progeny.

-SamS
Click to expand...
 
led05

led05

Chasing The Present
Everyone needs at least a jar of haze seeds, no…?

B15EA1B6-5A46-4FFB-9B9E-86731192B536.jpeg


But two is better than one, yes..?

1636C160-CB5F-4922-91EE-0CD38A129D89.jpeg




Both are 1990’s Haze, Goli - one is my favorite mom & dads, the other all… many many plants used for both, left as open as it could be…

one these jars is contributing 100 seeds to a very large Haze project from a willing & capable grower, to do it right… he’s going to run a number of the old Haze lines, and OP All the best… This is being done to end the curse & nonsense attached to haze that’s been exhausting for far too long, my words… and for those hoarding it, and for others (many) pawning off swag hybrids so shit growers can have a chance, or whatever reason they whack ‘‘em fat…this won’t be that..

Those seeds will be spread far & wide and I have full confidence in this person to get it done… and it’s nothing about a money grab like so many others have done, are doing or plan to…something be patient for the haze and be kind to others @ and whom knows what’ll turn up in your stockings this or next year…

My only involvement is the donation mentioned above as I love the cause… if person doing the deed wants to step up and announce such it’s their place to do so of course, if not I’ll respect their privacy…

Peace - make more beans - share the great ones - same as it’s always been
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Latest posts

Top