question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

[Happy Times]

Maybe a different “Old School Haze”?


Or maybe Ostrich Scaring Haze
Old Stinky Haze
Original Skunk Haze
Octopus Surfing Haze
Oscar’s Super Haze

 

[willydread]

If I'm not wrong, Osh should be an old skunk haze cross....

 

[LostTribe]

Maybe a different “Old School Haze”?


Or maybe Ostrich Scaring Haze
Old Stinky Haze
Original Skunk Haze
Octopus Surfing Haze
Oscar’s Super Haze

the "NEW" sssc does not have OSH. new sssc is reported to be fake they don't even have the original strains they released so how could they be real?

If you seek real Hz I'd first go with anything Cultivators Choice might be offering, second would be Tom, thirdly Todd.

Blessings
LT

 

[TheDarkStorm]

FWIW, the original SSSC did not ship any Haze stock of any kind. That must be the new incarnation of that brand.

Wen pictures wer first put out of it they were showing the ag13 clone....but this had to be put Into seed form so it looks like it was mated to sams skunk haze....an later a clone from these seeds was displayed.....some of ther very first posts on insta may still show the ag13 pictures...the darker terps in the seedline come from hazeA.
The original OSH clone is the ag13

 

[TheDarkStorm]

I don't mean to diss Nevil in anyway or put his breeding/selection skills down, absolutely not, but can you really give huge credit to him for "selection work" with the Original Haze seed stock when he only got few seeds sprouting?


LUCK played a big part in why Haze males A and C are so well known; meaning those came out of only few seeds that sprouted. Would Nevil's work with Haze-hybrids be so legendary if he only found the hay-phenos of Haze from those ...
OHaze seeds? No. He was lucky to get few really good plants out of those . = you can be the world's best breeder but if the genetics are poor to begin with the end result won't be great/legendary either.


Where is Sam's Hazes?! The seeds Nevil received WERE MADE BY SAM! If it wasn't for Sam who selected the Haze he named "The Burning Bush" Haze A and C would not even exist. Do you even realize that. Think about it for awhile.

...sam already confirmed what they wer on hempys thread...go take a look...bitbehind the times mate..the seeds wer ancestors of burning bush..the bush came from them....tho wen sold they wer owned by sam
Ther was something nevil said once...if you got low yields and it went 22weeks to 40weeks then it was his haze uncut...not many hazes ive seen that go that long.

 

[GoatCheese]

...sam already confirmed what they wer on hempys thread...go take a look...bitbehind the times mate..the seeds wer ancestors of burning bush..the bush came from them....tho wen sold they wer owned by sam

Go thru all the 700+ pages of drivel on Hempy's thread??! LOL I might have better things to do.

Joking a side, yea i remember Sam confirming in Hempy's thread he DID NOT sell any 1960's seeds made by Haze Bro's to Nevil, only re-pro seeds he made himself. Go look it up. It's you who's a bit behind, bro. It's called shitty memory, cause we really went thru this already, didn't we. Fun times. LOL
..it's a great thread actually full of great info and history, if you just have the patience to shift thru all the horseshit commenters who wrote nothing more than "Oh, another Haze fight on IC Mag" or other useless shit like that. Too many chatty bitches on these forums ruining good debates/fights, ay.

anyways..
I didn't save that post Sam wrote on Hempy's thread, but here's a post by Sam that i found on MrNice forums earlier and he said the very same thing on Hempy's thread. And since you brought this up, why don't you go find that post by Sam and re-post it here so we can all see it. I'm not wasting my time on that one, mate.


Here's the important bit Sam wrote on the post i found on MNS forums:

"[FONT=&quot]Burning Bush was 100% pure OHaze I grew it in Calif and named it, RCC also smoked it with me, and loved it."[/FONT]

After Nevil's pasing, Sam weighs in
https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-shantibaba-mrnice/16757-after-nevils-pasing-sam-weighs.html

[FONT=&quot]Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]I just read all the posts from my last post #1945 to #2376.The seeds I sold to Nevil were all made by me mostly from Holland work.
I never sold any I collected from Haze I obtained from the Haze Bros. I sold my work.
J & G are the same guy. Almost all my OHaze seeds were from him.
I never sold any OHaze X S Indian Kerala or Thai as OHaze, I always called them OHaze X whatever.
Burning Bush was 100% pure OHaze I grew it in Calif and named it, RCC also smoked it with me, and loved it. That and another OHaze I called Cream De La Cream and another I called Mr Greasy even though it was a girl, it had very very streched laddery buds that even when dry and placed in a zip bag greased up the bag unbelievably, it was also hard to roll and keep a joint lit.
Nevil did not have OHaze seeds from before the 70's 80"s as he got his OHaze from me and I only sold him seeds I had made, all 100% OHaze, but not from the 60's or early 70's as I did not start making OHaze seeds until the mid 70's and in large amounts in the 80's in Holland. I think I sold him seeds I made in Holland after 85'.

I will try and answer a few questions if I know the answers, but will ignore any questions I have answered before. Dont ask me about others Haze as I was not the breeder you need to ask the breeder.

The reason that OHaze was seldom found in Coffee shops in Amsterdam is because commercial growers wanted herb with a short flowering period, why would they grow a OHaze that took 16-24 weeks and did not yield as much as a 7-8 week plant?
That and I was a seed producer not a commercial grower if I was I would have worked up an OHaze pure, that was better then NH at least to me.
I get that not all liked OHaze X Skunk or Thai/OHazeXSkunk but I did and many others I know also did.
I also have yet to find any Cannabis that had a more Cerebral, Clear, Up, Psychdelic high with no celing that got you higher every time you took a toke. Nevils did not, for me anyway.
People have many different preferences I also have mine. RCC agrees with me if that matters. I did not see OHaze until the very early 70's I did see both G's and RL's my wife manicured for G and he was the first OHaze Bro, we were close back in the day, and his was the best. Shame he quite growing OHaze but it was so much easier to get my Skunk #1 seeds for his grows, this was before people maintained clones, and his OHaze was already suffering from inbreeding depression, I did not try and improve my OHaze seed lines I tried to preserve all the genes and only sold them with the advice to use them for breeding not commercial growing, to use for commercial growing you need to grow thousands and select the best 10 clones to reproduce for product, few people wanted to do that.
I sold Nevil seeds for $1 a pop for any of my varieties.
I sold by the kilo for €5,000 there are 50,000 - 75,000 for small seeds like OHaze.
I still have a KG of OHaze seeds made a decade ago they are not for sale they are for a OHaze project I am trying to arrange outdoors in the ground at a latitude of 18 just to find and clone the best 10-20 for production where legal.
I have zero problems to keep well made seeds alive stored under refridgerated 4c for 25 years so they are still germainating in the high 90's if and when I do this I will post photos of the 10-20 as well as their Cannabinoid and terpene profiles.
These are slightly over 75 per gram so 75,000 seeds and normally I get 70% females with OHaze so I will have lots to select the 10-20 keepers from, I expect about 50,000 females if started carefully. I am retired from selling seeds, but I will allow others to do what they want with my work, they will pay me for the work, and it is not work as I want to do it even retired.

FYI the OHaze grown by the Haze Bros were not all equal in quality, maybe 10% were fantastic, 50% good or great, and maybe 10% not as good but most would still think it was great. Each year after 1970 the quality and yields and vigor declined a bit. By 1980 I did not know any large OHaze growers, for the reasons I have stated.

I have told the truth, I have zero to gain by altering the truth, I am retired for several years now. I have had a great life, few complaints, I would like to put out a dependable pure OHaze seed line or two for my self and others, even if I do not sell them but let others do so. Selling is work, I do not need the $ and I will only do what I love today. Breeding OHaze is not work for me it is fun, and I think I can do it better then anyone else just because of my experience and history.

FYI I have all but given up on Phylos, they have other goals then my interest in Cannabis Evolution and Relationships, but FYI I only sent them extracted DNA no living materials they could steal, I also sent them many of my varieties DNA, focused on Landraces to help explore my interest in Evolution and Relationships. I am glad I tried, nothing ventured nothing gained.....

-SamS[/FONT]

Here are few post from Nevil where he talks about "The Burning Bush"

[FONT=&quot]Well Bigherb, I wouldn't swear on a kilo of Haze Hash, that he told me that he grew them himself.
I seem to remember one batch had a number of years mixed together something like '66,'67,'68. A prominent ancestor was a thing called "Burning Bush". If Sam didn't grow burning bush then the person that did will be able to tell us more.
Everything useful was from before 1970. The one plant that came up from '70 batch, Omega, was at best 25% haze and didn't make the grade.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot] N.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] ***********[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]***********[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Quote:
I seem to remember one batch had a number of years mixed together something like '66,'67,'68. A prominent ancestor was a thing called "Burning Bush". If Sam didn't grow burning bush then the person that did will be able to tell us more
I didn't say the bag was labeled burning bush. Sam said something about burning bush being an ancestor of the Haze. If Sam is Knowsitall4sure then he didn't smoke Haze til '71.
If that's true, what would he know about seeds made by somebody else 2 years before he had even smoked the variety?
N.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=8818812&postcount=2724[/FONT]

Later, Darky

 

[JohnnyChicago]

Some Haze growing

 

[Donald Mallard]

You had 20 years to repeat what Nevil achieved others in the industry had longer so why was that not achievable Donald could it be that JUST MAYBE Nevil was a Breeder and a good one at that.


The people that created haze were not breeders Sam has stated it they created haze by LUCK.


Ow and Nevil is not the only person claiming haze dose not improve when inbreed Sam says the exact same research it.

sheez man ,,

yes as i said with the good stock he collected , he did very well ,
part of doing well is collecting good stock ,

i was part of the last program also hempy along with a bunch of others at the same site , we saw how it went ,
no need to get butt hurt as the americans call it , and go into defend mode because u think someone has insulted someone u hold highly , i havent done that ,

all i wrote was realistic and 100 % accurate ,


and no sam didnt say what u are saying , i have read it also , he said a small number are exceptional , the rest border on being good to average ,
the recipe is simply what one does to improve a highly inbred cannabis line , which is outcross it , and hey presto , we have gold ..

if haze was no good , that recipe would not work man ,
cross it with your best and see everything improve ..



you are reading it wrong hempy ,, if it was as u say; crossing with anything would be a crap shoot , however its not ..

 

[@hempy]

Todd McCormick

I do not have a specific favorite Haze, but that said, there is a terpene profile that is spicy and reminiscent of the original “Northern Lights #5 x Haze” that I first smoked at the cannabis castle back in 1994. The same spicy terpene combination can also be found in “Nevil’s Haze” and is the scent and taste (and high) that truly got me hooked on Haze. It was the old NL5xHaze combination that inspired me to make the crosses that are featured in my collection. I felt as if the NL5 was just one color out of a rainbow of elite clone-only cultivars that we now have floating around California, and by putting ON Haze to it was kinda like applying a neon filter over a primary color, with the goal of making it brighter without losing its original tone. Original Haze is not the best smoke on its own, but it is magical when you breed it with other plants, as Sam the Skunkman often stated; “Haze makes everything else better”. My overall goal with my Haze projects is twofold: I am bringing Original Haze seeds to the market by reproducing them as an IBL in my greenhouse under the guidance of Sam the Skunkman. Second, I am looking to bring back high-energy and inspirational varieties of cannabis that perhaps take longer (10 to 13, as opposed to 8 to 10 weeks) to flower and have more of a morning coffee effect, rather than a sedative relaxing one. The over 60 varieties that I crossed with my male ON Haze plant represent a pretty full spectrum of the terpenes available in cannabis today. In the future, cannabis competitions will not be based on incorrect terminology such as Indica & sativa, but instead it will be based upon the highest expressed terpene tested on that plant. Meaning plants that are mostly yellow would be completing with other plants that are mostly yellow, and we would not be trying to compare black-and-white cannabis flowers when they were very different in the first place. Your favorite Haze combination will depend upon your favored terpene profile, which is why I created a range for all to try.

Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman
So you are comparing apples and oranges..
Take FD Original Haze and make a cross with your favorite female clone and you will be surprised how good it is. Often much better then either parent.

Also I have suggested many times that Original Haze is "breeding material" not great commercial growing materials, but you seem to only notice what you want to notice. It is the only pure Original Haze available.

-SamS

The price for back crossing the 5HzA back to Haze C was that the hybrid was not as consistent as the 5Hz. Maybe one in 20 females would be better than the 5Hz. Further doubling up on HzA or C will reduce the return even further. I know this from experience.
If there are other good haze lines out there, be it from Sam or the Haze bros., what are the chances of it being an F1? If large numbers of the progeny smell like cat piss, it's very likely inbred and therefore not likely to be a good candidate. A 25% Haze hybrid from a different Haze line that has not been inbred to Haze would offer more hope.
Smoko time
N.

Not bothered getting more quotes for you Donald we have been doing this dance for years now you need to build a bridge and get over this hate you have for Nevil mate its not healthy or productive.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Go thru all the 700+ pages of drivel on Hempy's thread??! LOL I might have better things to do.

Joking a side, yea i remember Sam confirming in Hempy's thread he DID NOT sell any 1960's seeds made by Haze Bro's to Nevil, only re-pro seeds he made himself. Go look it up. It's you who's a bit behind, bro. It's called shitty memory, cause we really went thru this already, didn't we. Fun times. LOL
..it's a great thread actually full of great info and history, if you just have the patience to shift thru all the horseshit commenters who wrote nothing more than "Oh, another Haze fight on IC Mag" or other useless shit like that. Too many chatty bitches on these forums ruining good debates/fights, ay.

anyways..
I didn't save that post Sam wrote on Hempy's thread, but here's a post by Sam that i found on MrNice forums earlier and he said the very same thing on Hempy's thread. And since you brought this up, why don't you go find that post by Sam and re-post it here so we can all see it. I'm not wasting my time on that one, mate.


Here's the important bit Sam wrote on the post i found on MNS forums:

"[FONT=&quot]Burning Bush was 100% pure OHaze I grew it in Calif and named it, RCC also smoked it with me, and loved it."[/FONT]

After Nevil's pasing, Sam weighs in
https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-shantibaba-mrnice/16757-after-nevils-pasing-sam-weighs.html



Here are few post from Nevil where he talks about "The Burning Bush"



Later, Darky

Dude it was confirmed that nevil got his haze in 84 with in the first week of sam being in holland..all these wer recent responses..the quotes your pulling up are older...burning bush was displayed in 81 mock catalogue along with haze #1-4 plus new years haze..work out yourself wer those seeds went....its was confirmed directly in response to me myself wat nevil got...the rest is history....evryone latched on to this thing that nevil had burning bush stock...but he said no such thing....evry 7 of the plants he had were all different made from different parents....burning bush is just one type of pure haze bros haze.....sam also confirmed he used 76 ibl (ibl haze was named original haze and only sam had this )stock to resurrect his own haze in Holland.
So your highlighted quote about seeds sold to nevil in 85 is just that ...old stuff.....sam even replied to me that nevil wouldn't have even got those seeds if it wasnt for him....let me be thefirst to say thank you sam for getting them to nevil...if it wasnt for you we wouldn't have had a chance to feel the true desructive power of the haze....thank you sam.

 

[@hempy]

Posted by Nevil

The subject of Haze keeps coming up.
I got mine from Sam the Skunkman in the 80's. I bought a couple of thousand of old stock late 60s/ 70. The first batch that I planted produced one plant, a female. It was the slowest to flower I'd ever come across and flowered for longer. I got 3 different crops of seed of it and it had still not finished. It was huge and filled a quarter of the room, it had wispy buds and when you smoked it, other people complained about the smell. It didn't have much resin and after 9 months flowering, with no end in sight, I chopped it. It seem the most impractical plant I'd ever grown. I didn't keep a cutting.

One of the males I crossed it with was Ruderalis x NL1 X NL1. I was testing a 25% Ruderalis male on the most difficult plant I'd come across to see what it would do. I used all the seed I had to find the earliest male for the next generation. I grew the females out and because it was so resinous, I made hash out of it. To this day it was the best hash I've ever smoked, and I've been privileged to have smoked the best.
I truly regret not having made a cutting of that plant. I didn't make that mistake with the 6 that followed.

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-s...ons-nevil.html

The Haze seeds I got from Sam were grown in America in 69/70. I got them in the mid 80's. All of my Haze came from these seeds of which I was saying I got 7 plants. I was hoping that Sam would come out with something good from his remaining seeds, he never did and to my knowledge, nor did anyone else. The only good haze that hit the market was from two males A and C.

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-s...s-nevil-3.html

After the first batch of '69 Haze seeds only produced 1 plant, I decided to plant the rest. This produced 5 plants A,B,C,D and E.
Plants B,D and E were females, of which B was the best. I tried all possible combinations and the best was B x C. BC was actually grown commercially alongside 5HzC1, so it was a 10/11 week plant. This fact alone indicated that HzB was a Haze Hybrid to something early. I suspect that most of BC's quality came from Dad.
I planted the rest of the old seeds. One came out. O for Omega. It was a 1970 seed. I suspected that it was only 25% Haze with one parent being Indica. It too did not really pan out.
The males were the "goods". Without those two plants, I think that all would have been lost. If I'd only kept a cutting of the first female, whose genotype was closer to male A. I'm start to get that sad feeling again.

Ah well, you can be thankful that the seeds fell into my hands, otherwise you wouldn't know what I'm talking about.
N.

I could only get 6 to germinate in 85/86

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-s...s-nevil-5.html

the 89 nl5haze
Was HzC. HzA died before commercial quantities were produced.

Female Hazes were not used to produce commercial quantities of seed.
N.

The best haze hybrids that I bred came from the First Haze female I grew. It was bred to a 75% NL1 ruderalis male. I was so impressed that my first Haze release was NL1xHzC, from a select NL1 cut. It wasn't as good as it's predecessor.
Excluding FH female, the two males A+C were genetically the best (progeny testing). If any of the other females had better progeny than the males, I would have used them, but they didn't. Because of Hazes being slow to flower, it was more efficient to use the males, but this was not my motivation. I wish that I had kept FH, but such is life.
N.

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-s...-nevil-37.html

Were those NL5Hz , from Haze C?
Yes they were.
N.

https://www.mrnice.nl/forum/4-talk-s...-nevil-40.html


Credit to herbgreen
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=8785494&postcount=3366

 

[Donald Mallard]

Not bothered getting more quotes for you Donald we have been doing this dance for years now you need to build a bridge and get over this hate you have for Nevil mate its not healthy or productive.

i have no hate , im just a realist and not a fan boy like you ,
i also hate cliches ,
do u even understand how thing s work as far as making good hybrids ,
if you did you would understand why its recommended to use haze ,
its a very good ibl , so cross it with another good ibl , u get a great f1 hybrid ,
this does not mean they are no good on their own , it just means together they are a different beast with more vigor , more resistance to disease etc ,

i thought u knew a little about breeding hempy ,, you should understand this , its like grade school stuff man .. come on with your ignorance , get with the program ...

i dig nevils combinations , i have grown lots of them ,

but without the selection behind them they wouldnt be as good , so its appropriate to tip ones hat to the folks behind the scenes also is what im trying to say ,, without them , nevils combinations were not possible ... the work was done by many , not by one ..

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

We all stand on the shoulder's of giants, me included.
I traveled and obtained traditional landraces, used them to select elites and then made hybrids between them, it was my work in the end, but I used landraces that had been created over centuries by many farmers.
You do need to select the best of each of the landraces to find elites, to use for production or breeding, but the work is much easier than what the farmers did for generations to create and maintain the landraces.
I know few breeders that use the numbers required to maintain a landrace, a few thousand minimum of both males and females, it is like Luther Burbank did, grew thousands to find the selections to keep and breed with with improved resistance and yield. Like the russet Burbank potato the result of thousands of early rose potato plants that a single plant made seeds he kept and grew. Numbers and a keen eye that spots the special or elite.

-SamS

 

[GoatCheese]

Dude it was confirmed that nevil got his haze in 84 with in the first week of sam being in holland..all these wer recent responses..the quotes your pulling up are older...burning bush was displayed in 81 mock catalogue along with haze #1-4 plus new years haze..work out yourself wer those seeds went....its was confirmed directly in response to me myself wat nevil got...the rest is history....evryone latched on to this thing that nevil had burning bush stock...but he said no such thing....evry 7 of the plants he had were all different made from different parents....burning bush is just one type of pure haze bros haze.....sam also confirmed he used 76 ibl (ibl haze was named original haze and only sam had this )stock to resurrect his own haze in Holland.
So your highlighted quote about seeds sold to nevil in 85 is just that ...old stuff.....sam even replied to me that nevil wouldn't have even got those seeds if it wasnt for him....let me be thefirst to say thank you sam for getting them to nevil...if it wasnt for you we wouldn't have had a chance to feel the true desructive power of the haze....thank you sam.

Ok, so the Haze seeds came from other plants as well. No problem. Now that i read one of Nevil's post better, i noticed he said no bag was labeled The Burning Bush. My bad.


::::
[FONT=&quot]Quote:
I seem to remember one batch had a number of years mixed together something like '66,'67,'68. A prominent ancestor was a thing called "Burning Bush". If Sam didn't grow burning bush then the person that did will be able to tell us more
I didn't say the bag was labeled burning bush. Sam said something about burning bush being an ancestor of the Haze. If Sam is Knowsitall4sure then he didn't smoke Haze til '71.
If that's true, what would he know about seeds made by somebody else 2 years before he had even smoked the variety?
N.[/FONT]
:::::


My point to OJD was that Sam made the re-pro Haze seeds (Nevil didn't get Haze Bros stock but re-pros) he sold to Nevil.


I'm not too interested in specific dates ...only the genetics.
Peace.

 

[harvestreaper]

haze

 

[MadMac]

my first OHz S1

my first OHz S1

hello,
here two pic's from my OHz S1...
have 7 girls... but need more picture space...

OHz S1

so far looking good... nice bud onset...
hope they carry the bud's from the mother...
time will tell
M.

 

[Dr.Young]

Keep the haze going guys!

 

[MAHA KALA]

Positronics had SEVERAL haze offerings when i visited in the fall of '94. The one I grabbed was "Original Haze" - never outcrossed.

 

[MAHA KALA]

Not bothered getting more quotes for you Donald we have been doing this dance for years now you need to build a bridge and get over this hate you have for Nevil mate its not healthy or productive.

what about to grow something instead of quoting? poor troll..

 

[@hempy]

what about to grow something instead of quoting? poor troll..

No one can accuse you of being intelligent now can they mate Quotes with real facts bother you ?.

Here is one more for you to enjoy.

There was an earlier version sam passed around. You'll have to drag it out of him lol. When i met adam at thseeds mid90's there was this guy smoking a cerebral sandlewoody thing. I believe that to be one of sams earlier haze lots again drag it out of him if you can lol. I reckon that the one shanti ran with. But for me, the final incarnation when realized in all its glory was best. And that is the heavy citus thai green 4 way hybrid.