question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

[Chamba]

Originally Posted by expat
Hola capt.
did a TW BX for woodhorse, and a grower reported Red sap from those as well, so if its somehow connected to a sativa line my guess would be the thai?

Agreed on the Thai prolly carrying this trait...

Along with lots of strains, landraces and varieties, I've grown hundreds of Thai ganja plants from seed sourced in Thailand myself and have never noticed red sap...as a matter of fact I don't remember that I've never seen this red sap trait in any of the plants I've grown.

here's a question for Sam.....some plants and weeds have seeds that germinate on time release (iow not all the seeds germinate at the same time) that ensures some of the seeds from that seed mother survive and grow to maturity......many of the equatorial sativas I've grown have seeds that seem to behave in the same way : most germinate after e.g. 7 days, some after e.g. 10 ~ 14 days and a small minority of other seeds germinate later or don't at all (not presoaked, just planted straight in the soil) which is different from the indica seeds which all seem to all germinate within a few days.

is this because some of these semi wild and wild tropical sativas seeds from the same seed plant are different (thicker seed coats etc) that ensure time release germination or is there another reason (eg barely viable seed takes longer to germinate ..or...)?

another question......you mentioned you bred Thais 30 years ago that had hermie traits as they do, but bred the hermie trait out successfully (something I didn't have the ability to do myself 15 years ago)..........in your opinion were Thais less hermie prone in the 1960's and 70's compared to the 80's and 90's..(or is it just a matter of working with a large enough number of females and being very good at plant selection and breeding?).

were the Thais in the '60's and 70's different from the '80's and '90 Thais in your opinion?..for e.g. I read somewhere years ago (sorry, forgot the source) that mentioned Thais from the 60's had large seeds which were mottled in appearance though every seed I've seen on Thai bud in Thailand and from Thais I've grown (almost all were very lightly seeded or had a small lower branch heavily seeded) had small to tiny seeds with no marking, mottling or "tiger striping"

questions questions!..........many thanks in advance!

 

[Chamba]

I know I always selected for large calyxs with Original Haze, and it was not so hard as OHaze has big calyxs anyway.

Yes I introduced California Orange.

-SamS

but why did you select for large calyxes?...were these, in general, faster finishing or had a better high..or was it both and you just like large calyxes?

and please for the sake of record and to stop further lies and hype, please let post a list of the strains you developed or had a hand in developing.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Dalaihempy,
"heres an intresting post by a guy from CW named nom de fluer.

Hi, all
I thought I could add some history to help back hempy's point.
The G-13 clone was discovered by a guy named Sandy Wienstien. A founding member of Sacred Seeds, Breeder of Early Girl, He also discovered the Bay Area Durban Poison clone (the same clone All dutch DP is based on). During the mid 70's Sandy W and members of the Bay Area (SK#1) group were working in cooperation on some of their afgans."

THERE WERE NO FOUNDING MEMBERS OF SACRED SEEDS, JUST ME!

And I have never met any Sandy Wienstien, ever.
Early Girl was not bred by Sandy Wienstien, and Durban Poison South Arican was cleaned up and developed by me alone, then I took it to Amsterdam. The same with my Hindu Kush and Afghani lines. And I made up using #1, #2, #3, as I had so many imported seed lines I did not name them until I used them to make seeds, instead of just trialing them.

"It was during Nevil's 83/84 collection trips to the US that he aquired, from Sandy W the only G-13 cuttings to ever leave Sandy's garden.
-nom de fluer"

Neville did not travel to the USA until after these dates.

There are so many lies and untruths in this post it is a joke, this guy "nom de fluer"
is so wrong in his "facts" I feel sorry for him, and anyone that believes his lies.

-SamS

 

[Capt. Crip]

Sam,
Thank you so much for clearing up many of the false reports...As much as you hate to keep rehashing these subjects...It does help in getting the correct info out there .....
The people writing false statements just for the sake of making friends is weak!!NomDefluer is a very sick individual to just make up post out if his ass...
That started a bunch of false info spreading all over the web in a short period and it will never be fixed...Folks will be reading that same BS forever and thinking they they know the deal....Sad!

As far as the large calyxes go,,,wouldn't they hold more trichs per square cm. with the larger bracts...Less non-psycho-active pistils,seems like the way to go for many reasons...
And they damn sure look killer all swollen up ready to burst!!

 

[Guest]

MORE of SAMS gratifyin history!!

Cool Sam good to know these things..............

As for the G13,well i have grown hundreds of JLP's
cross with the haze and i DID SEE a small but wonderfull
plant TOTALLY CHOKED IN RESINS as described above in that post!
This thing was only a foot tall but packed a good 2 Z's on it.........
Fist like buds glystening from the shine,to bad i didnt clone or re-veg?
But i got thousands of seeds to grow out and look again,it was a surprize!!!!
Thats the Biggest seeds stock i have right now.........

Now who's got O haze........hint!

 

[Useless]

First off, I have to say awesome thread to everyone. A great source of information.
Sam you are an invaluable asset to the growing community, for all you have done and continue to do.

How worked is your OHaze? It is fairly uniform or are there numerous phenos to be found? What were the citeria you used when performing parental selection for future generations? (Aside from the large calyxes).
And if you did not have your GC/MS, what criteria would you use to select the males for breeding?

Not sure you will be able to answer this, but the California Orange, how does it relate to the Aerik77 Cali-O cut? Is the AE77 a direct descendent? A "special" pheno of your creation?
What genetics did you use in your California Orange? (Apologies if you already answered this)

 

[Raco]

Glad ya like the pics folks,got MORE!

Well right before my dad died he was looking threw
his books as we where gonna move to the mountains..
He found this old book,but in it was my old pot leafs!!!!!!!!!!!!

To my surprize he had found my FIRST MARIJUANA LEAVES!
You know how folks up north gather maple leafs and place them
in books to flatten,well i did the same thing with my first MJ plants!
THese sativa leaves are from 1974 just for comparisons,must have
been MEX and columbians i believe!!!!!!!!
My dad was a cool guy and would never throw them out...i miss him.

Started growing at 14 years old and im glad i saved these leaves!!














1974 man those days where the FRESH days of weed it was still new!

Awesome!! thx for sharing

 

[Dalaihempy]

Neville did not travel to the USA until after these dates.

There are so many lies and untruths in this post it is a joke, this guy "nom de fluer"
is so wrong in his "facts" I feel sorry for him, and anyone that believes his lies.

-SamS

Hiya sam i thort to post it but i never realy new what to make of it as i didnt know much about sandy or the others being talket about or do i know much about "nom de fluer".

Basicly the story i belive is from shanti wich in short vertion goes clone was taken from a plant in greenhouse no 13 it got its name from G for Goverment clone and 13 from the greenhouse no-13 it was liberated from giveing the name g13.

I have lots of posts saved arcived but no point in posting them all.


Originally posted by shantibaba
Hi guys
Did not really miss the post....but was more interested to see what chat you sparked amongst yourself.Since there are a roller coaster of stories going about, re the G13.
Whatever the stories are that have entertained the punters till now probably all have a little truth mixed with myth.All with merit.
What I know in a nut shell is that the G13 plant was taken from the research facility some time ago and Nev managed to get it as a clone back to NL.There many things were tried without very much consistency, except with the skunk male to the G13.It was the only real crossing that gained results along a semi consistent line.That was quite some years back.Since then many people believe that buying the G13 released crosses and breeds perpetuated the story.However the story was for me all a little out of proportion.It usually is the product of many people dreaming of catching the big fish....
Up until 1 year ago I was not a G13 participant.I had seen it years back when it was all new and exciting but it did not do too much for me.No real flavour, strong sure but lacking on many other important sides.I recently learnt that the G13 lost alot of vigour at Sensi a long time back untill they eventually lost the original mother line.Nev gave me the only seed he felt was worth to go on with in this line (over 6 years ago) since he was retired from that world.It had been hanging above a fire place for more than 2 years prior.It was one of the last things that had had no time to look into due to other reasons.Kind of left on the shelf.The things that are being used for G13 combinants are all very removed and probably explains the pot luck kind of plants that turn up.But I have made some selections and with consultations and some old hand advice it looks we are back on track.There are currently 9 females and 7 males that are being combined and gone on with...a bit laborious but the only way when we are left with such a small sample.I will post some photos soon here to show you all what we are up to.Till then all the best Shantibaba


I dont know to much about the us ag facility sam but a friend i knew from school
worket as a security gard at a Goverment ag facility here The CSIRO and he told us of the plants being grown there they had indicas and diffrent sativas he managed to steel a hand full of a indica line when i found this all out i was offerd the indica seed i sed no as i was more into sativas and asket if he could try and get them type of lines for me insted well a few years later i joined the on line community and relised maybe these indica seeds stolen from this goverment ag facility may of been worth keeping after all tryed to get hold of the guy found out he moved other mate who got seeds from him did grow them out sed it was real good but didnt make seeds.

Why would they grow sativas indicas and other lines in an ag facility very od i think what are they testing for that has not all ready been tested in other facilitys only thing i can think of is they were doing work on genetic finger printing of cannabis.

 

[socioecologist]

I'd like to second the question posed to Sam (you are a fount of wisdom, BTW) on O. Haze male selection. I have been lucky enough to acquire some very nice elite cuts, but would like to "back them up" using a TFD Original Haze male I grew from seed. Should I expect an increase in potency in my OG or MVTF cuts after an OH cross...? Looking forward to working with this strain, regardless. Thanks again Sam.

 

[Chamba]

Should I expect an increase in potency in my OG or MVTF cuts after an OH cross

how would any one know what the results will be from multiple hybrid crosses?

the proof is in the pudding...iow ...the best thing to do is cross them and then smoke test them..that's half the fun!

breeders should never expect, guess, anticipate or pre-judge .......... use as many males and females as you have, cross pollenate them all, grow them out then select towards your goal...after 3 or 4 generations you should be closer to what you want.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Haze crossed with Haze will be lucky to have any improvement. I meant Haze crossed to another variety.

-SamS

 

[Chamba]

re : Hempy and spell check

....after a re-read, I edited out this smart-assed post.....SamS's post down the page says it better ....

Hempy, in the interest of keeping this thread on topic and flowing along positively, feel free to do the same.



anyway.......onward through the haze!

 

[Dalaihempy]

use the spell check please....one or two typos and spelling mistakes are ok ...but..your posts read like a text message on a cell phone from a drunken short-sighted dyslexic with fat fingers sending the message from the back of 4WD on a bumpy road (while he was in a hurry).

You know what Chamba the options there for you to not read my posts i spell as i do im far from stupid i speek 2 languages and last time i looket it was a canna site not a english class your insolts do nothing but make me not want to use spell check infact threw the years i have posted and the only way people could attacket me was to use my bad spelling so i grew a thick scin and started to not give a flying rats ass.

and why in the world would you believe that baseless cock and bull story about G13?....Ed Rosenthal went to the same reseach facillity and said something similar to Sam!

I belive shanti as i know him personaly and wen people bull shit Chamba you can see it and work it out fast shanti has nothing to hide and if you belve it or not you choice to do ethir.

Ed Rosenthal you say ha? Look for an article in an old High Times mag he did on nevile and the g13.

it was just hype to sell seeds and then the story grew...yet wankers persist on perpetuating the tale..sheesh!...this "debate" was on OG every few months....and most growers (not the "I'm a believer"s, hype-ists or those trying to make money or fame off it) who grew it out said it was just a strong indica, no stronger or better than other indicas.....!

The only debate was who had the real g13 as eveyr man and his dog offerd g13 or g13 hybreeds they still do but did they have the real g13 no as only nevile offerd it in hybreeds and thats fact and few like that idear why well its all about the $ you think people will by some ones g13 hybreed if infact it has not got g13 in it ? dont think so its like aking for haze and getting a unknow bush sativa that smokes ok at best.

They grew the g13 out ha whos aleged g13 did they grow Chamba ? Pacifics fake cuts or many others fake vertions if people like it or not nevile was the only one to have it and was the only one to use it and offer hybreeds of it something a few cant get a grip on or handle personaly i dont cear .

don't grow hype, grow plants...next time you have an "elite cut" or the "real G13" grow it along side a Nirvana seeds plant then blind smoke test the results with friends...then do another tasting but this time tell them that this one (the hyped elite) is the world's most strongest strain that sells for hundreds of dollars for 10 seeds , tell them it was the strain that killed Tupac, raised Bob Marley from the dead and got your sister pregnant then let them try the Nirvana seed strain and tell them beforehand that it is the cheapest, crappiest strain in the world and see what they say....lol..!

Do you think im some moron Chamba ? The first time i saw hype was from the on line community and mostly from us and canadian growers the ward elite to me means a plant some one likes and more times than not others may not.

Hype is bull shit and marketing in short if a lines good it will sell its sell and does.

Why would i grow Nirvana seeds seeds when i can make my own f2s from selections i make lots for FREE.

The only person im out to please is me and me alone as im not a comerial grower why do i cear what others think but all my friends infact love my stash and if they had the choice would smoke it over any thing avaluble here and why is that Chamba ?, I will tell you since i have your attention i take the time to grow test select and re test what i test out if i think its shit i cull and move on i dont cear about hype i research read and go for things i belive i my self would like.

the more a strain is hyped, the less I want it.!

Most in this community have woken up to some peoples marketing (hype) that is now only a newbie magnet.

Why would they grow sativas indicas and other lines in an ag facility very od i think what are they testing for that has not all ready been tested in other facilitys only thing i can think of is they were doing work on genetic finger printing of cannabis.!

They did a lot of research / work on cannabis finger printing who know as it wasnt for fibre not getting much fibre from an indica but some of the plant lines growing there sounded intresting.

(you're an Aussie too, eh)......possibly, I think they were probably trying to work out ways to wipe cannabis off the face of the earth with a virus or something along those lines

Yes i am and no im thinking more to do with Dna fingerprinting of cannabis they can tell now days what location an out door crop was grown and even match genetic lines from indoor to out basicly can work out if a given out door crop was from a given clone mum grown in a diffrent location.
anyway..onward through the haze![/QUOTE]


2 topics that couses shit 1/ g13 2/ haze personaly i have no money intrest in it or do i cear about looking importent guys facts are importent if you dont belive something your right to question it but you have no right to call people lies or frawds if you dont know them or know the work they did or have no real insite on things its best to leve it un sed.

As i see it if my friend can liberated a hand full of seeds from a Goverment ag facility i cant see why some one could not of taken a cut and smuggled it out its not that far fetchet is it.

I have 2 g13 hybreeds one i grew so far so can speek of its quolity its very good did it express sk no did it remind me of an afi type line yes it had a od piney taste and did i give others a sample yes all loved it was highly rated to by them all is it the grail not for me no what is my vertion of a grail easy the old mauie sativa i had as they say diffrent strokes for diffrent folks.

I spell things as they sound lots do it and worse spellers than me out there will i use spell check no not happy ban me like id cear.

 

[Chamba]

what this site needs is a spell check option on the "Post quick reply" box..or an option for members to select "automatic spell check" on all their posts..

Hempy : i can tell you are a cool guy, your heart is in the right place, we are both lovers of things ganja.....there's nothing wrong with having a difference of opinion, that's life.

.....anyway....let's just agree to disagree on this point, ok?

...............onwards through the haze..

 

[marijuanamat]

This threads getting a bit sad so heres a few pics of my og haze to cheer things up a bit.....

 

[dkmonk]

Nice pic's, how was the smoke from those plants?

 

[socioecologist]

Sam Said....

Sam Said....

Just try and cross the best you find X your favorite varieties, and you will find lots of keepers.

I bet most of the Hazes, my Original Haze or not, out there will improve most female Indica blood clones. And most clones do have Indica in them.

Chamba: thanks for answering the question posed to Sam for him--you must have missed the point.

Sam: Thanks.

Looking forward to working with this variety.

 

[marijuanamat]

The smoke is pretty darn nice,but you have to wait a good 17-18 weeks for her to finish tho and she had the strongest high out of 6-7 fem's i grew out 2-3 years ago,other plants finished a few weeks earlier but she was head and shoulders above the rest.I've got a OT1 haze male which i'm going to use on her and see what the offspring turn out like.

 

[oldtoker]

no more talk of the g13 i wasnt trying to cause anger i just wanted some info. i had some other strains i was wondering about to but no more trouble. sorry
keep it happy guys

 

[Bluebeard]

breeders should never expect, guess, anticipate or pre-judge .......... use as many males and females as you have, cross pollenate them all, grow them out then select towards your goal...after 3 or 4 generations you should be closer to what you want.

You're kidding right? That technique works good for making f1's from parental lines with good GCA, where large populations aren't as necessary, but for inbreeding and stabilization, or line maintenance where large populations are necessary, you're ability to produce improvement will suffer and the line is likely to decline if you follow this technique, unless you have the patience and space to grow out millions of plants of each generation to find the right combination . In a typical inbreeding project involving a thousand seeds, 500 of each sex, that would mean you would have clone each female 500 times to test 250,000 crosses. Testing 5 females from each cross would require 1,250,000 females just to do a single generation with something that is signficantly less than an exceptional population size. That is completely absurd.

I agree that testing is important, and shouldnt be done with prejudice. But, that is a far cry from just not having any selection technique, and just going at random. That is just silly. Even Sam only GC tested a portion of the 10,000 he started out with, the rest I assume were thinned at earlier stages. Then after that he thinned out many which didn't provide the GC results he wanted. All of that is based on educated guesses, expectation and anticipation. That is the importance of experience. It doesn't take any experience to just look through crosses between randomly selected plants.