Pure Sats from seed late start ??

[MountZionCollec]

Had some plants killed by squirrels so decided to do some late seed starts for testing purposes, smoke test and full cannabinoid/terpinoid profile at steep hill.

My question is....IF you have grown Ace or Cannabiogen on 12/12 from seed or started them from seed late July to early August, how did it turn out? Did they have trouble going into flower? How big can they get with ~"perfect treatment" if not started until August 1st?

The strains I am referring too:

Old timers haze
Panama haze
Purple haze*malawi
Purple haze
Green haze
Zamaldelica
Green haze*Thai
Purple haze*Thai
Destroyer
Old Congo


Thanks!

 

[idiit]

My question is....IF you have grown Ace or Cannabiogen on 12/12 from seed or started them from seed late July to early August, how did it turn out? Did they have trouble going into flower? How big can they get with ~"perfect treatment" if not started until August 1st?

I did this with Ghana from cbg. was one of the first to get the seed stock; very late, I think july 1 or so. I posted on one of the cbg Ghana threads. put a few outdoors in a super fertile area ( creek wash out area).

the plant ended up being about 6' tall. gorgeous buds. I posted pics. but I had a several man team trying to bust the grower of a certain really nice 10 female garden last year. one of the poo poo's (badge hanging from his neck) looked right at me when I made a little too much noise going in thru the woods. he was facing the sun and I was in the dark woods so he couldn't see me. it was asshole and elbows outa there and all pics deleted for security reasons. so no pics from the previous year Ghana run left. security always comes first. i'm not documenting myself into prison for anybody.

the smoke was ok. not like flyinglion's report after a few weeks cure. after 5 months the stuff smoke just like flyinglion's excellent report. I posted this on the Ghana thread.

so, from my experience you can get some great results planting late.

some sativas need extended cure. some cigars need extended aging before they get really good. some cheeses, some wines,...

there are reports by experienced growers that some landrace sativas need age on them before they can produce really good smoko. i'm talking long veg. and long flowering period.

so, longwinded answer cut down to one word; depends.

 

[Koondense]

I tried with late planting last year(this year even later), the main idea was to get small plants and folliw how their veg time translates to flowering once near 12/12.
The strains were Malawi and Angola x Thai, sprouted end of june and transplanted after a week indoors, was first week of july. They vegged longer than expected and translated to flowering just after the natural 12/12 occured, in the last days of september. The sad fact is autumns are usually rainy and cloudy, frost starts around mid december and temperatures are far from ideal to grow plants. The consequence was slow flowering and not so good development of resin - weak effect and strange taste. The plants were pulled 6th december after a sudden frost came and persisted for 3-4 days. Malawi was mostly molded, rescued some test buds, AngolaThai was mold-free except some frozen/dead leaves and a small branch faded.
Fact is the autumn was pretty crappy, mostly cloudy and a bit colder than usual, so the results could be better in a better environment.

The logic for this year late planting in my spot was -> get a vigorous F1 mostly sativa(or 50/50) hybrid and expect stronger vegging and a bit earlier start of flowering + shorter flowering time, to finish in november if possible. Mold resistence to some degree is necessary.
I chose ZamalHash and TropicalSeeds Cognition(CongoPN x H.Nepal), so I'm seeing good vigour and I hope them to grow all thru august and start in start of september. Flo time of 10-12 weeks is expected so by mid november(ZH maybe in end oct) they could be done, somehow.

Good luck with your late starters

 

[MountZionCollec]

Thanks for the help guys glad to hear there's a chance it'll work just fine! I've never grown anything this extreme sativa so I figured I would just do a bunch of types and see what happens. I am going through some older threads on the strains as well.


idiit when I saw the foxtails on Ghana on the CBG website it gave me shivers but not in a good way lol, but I can't wait to check out the smoke report.....glad to hear no one got busted!


Hey Koon good luck with those two, the Zamal hashs I have are growing well and that cognition is a strain I was interested in for the future hope it flowers well for you! If u like sativas and have a wetter fall have u tried bangi haze?


Good luck to both of u in your Ganja harvests!

 

[Koondense]

MountZion

I didn't try the BangiHaze yet, I have a few beans but decided to save and eventually cross them with the coming feminised Bangi haze.
My thinking was, BangiHaze is around F6 or more I suppose, so the F1(Cognition) from the similar gene pool (Congo x Nepal) would show classic hybrid vigour and have more of it compared to BH as the line is more worked.
Another option for me would be NepalJam, but it's also F? who knows how much.

Was thinking to get Ciskei(TropicalSeeds) and cross it with BH and Cognition, and get me a pool of pretty fast mostly sativa genes in seeds, this is probably what I'll do in the coming seasons. Wouldn't mind a bit of Durban inside that pool(Congo, Nepal, Durban, S Africa).

I'm looking forward to your plants, MountZion, there are some beautiful monsters that caught my attention. Good luck bro!

Yum

 

[MountZionCollec]

Very nice plan I look forward to watching it play out! All very interesting genetics!

 

[dubi]

Hi MountZionCollec,

Sorry to hear about the squirrels.

Yes, you are still on time to use the wasted space to grow long flowering tropical sativas. Most of the strains you have commented (excellent sativa menu btw!) start to flower in late Sept/early Oct, especially haze and haze thais, so you still have 2 months to give them a good growth. Under good outdoor conditions they still can reach 2 meters easily and produce a decent yield, of course if you start them in spring they could reach 4-5 meters and produce a huge yield, but if you keep clones you can try it next year!

Hope it helps.

 

[MountZionCollec]

Thanks a lot for the information Dubi, it really helps! I saw a comment you made in an Old timers haze thread how it needed the fall equinox to really start flowering which brought up some questions in my head that you have cleared up with your post.

next year is my year for searching clones I am going to pop 20 seeds of the strains I am searching for mothers (Malawi, Panama, destroyer, Golden tiger, Malawi, Malawi*purple haze, Panama Haze, Taskenti, PCK, Zamaldelica)

I am more interested in growing the Extreme Decemeber/January haze and Thais to get get a full terpinoid profile to help me make mother plant selections on the varieties with more "commercial" potential. For example I could use the Purple haze terpinoid profile to help me choose the Malawi/purple haze with the most Purple haze effect.

Anyway, thank you very much for your hard work Dubi and for sharing with the world.

 

[MountZionCollec]

I just had an idea on how to bring those really late flowering sativas to market and make it cost effective. I won't do it this year as I'm limited by allowed plant numbers, in 1 or 2 years I won't be. As I harvest plants in the garden I will just replace them with long flowering sativas for a bumper crop. I could Veg them in 10 gallon airpots in my greenhouse until Mid October.

I would really love to bring these unique genetics to market HOPEFULLY consumers will be educated to demand them. The Sativa selection in every dispensary is straight limited garbage. It's awesome that personal growers get to enjoy them, but the general populace should have them available at a affordable price! That is true legalization.

 

[idiit]

^^ when the public actually wants them enough to pony up the $ they will be made available.

right now in my market area the indica dom frosty bud structure is mostly what my "custies" want.

if you are dubi ( kaiki included of course) then ppl will buy based on his/their tremendous personal and brand reputations.

I don't have the street cred to sell based on my reputation yet. I do have a "brand" identified by a 'brand name' I use that I won't release for security reasons. "the brand" is gaining support for the puff that is very enjoyable high effects, very potent, no tolerance build up and an average of 2.5 hr. high duration. my "brand" is associated more and more with great puff. this is due imo to the dominance in my strains of good/great landrace sativa genetics grown organically outdoors.

interesting note; the ethnic smokers are my strongest market right now for puff. the whites (i'm pure anglo fwiw) want frosty indica dom fire. the ethnic smokers buying my product (all landrace sativa nld based) usually smoke in blunts. they do smoke in glass but most of my stuff is used in blunts among the blacks and some latinos. the indoor indica dom mc snizzleberry flavored bright green, frosty nugs are demanded by the white tokers that smoke almost exclusively in glass imo. this is my personal experience. yes, some whites smoke blunts. i'm white and I love to puff my landraces in blunts. I've been slinging where i'm at for 25 years. the blunts do better service to the terpenes re taste in many of the landraces imo. it's hard for a white 60 year old to break into the ethnic markets atm from my personal experiences.

I've got some really good, really potent sativas and i'm now working on bag appeal strains.

I think this is pretty interesting stuff. it's my passionate hobby.

 

[MountZionCollec]

Idiit thx for your opinion and the topic of "meeting consumer expectations" is of critical importance, we still have to compete with "McDonalds Weed". But I do believe consumer expectations, as far as bud structure, can be met with 90% of ace/CBG genetics, however the ultra late flowering sativas are going to be the tough sell because their so unlike anything currently in market. From pictures it seems the Haze/Thais hybrids may have more potential of "more pretty denser tighter bud structure" than a pure haze but maybe I'm wrong?

I have been moderately successful in dealing with dispensaries and am confident I will be continue to be successful transitioning to "almost" entirely to ace/cannabiogen genetics. The quality of effects will be there, the key is meeting VISUAL expectations on bud structure. But even if I have to start off selling some Pure green haze at $400 a pound just cause their so damn ugly (in the markets eyes, obviously subjective) then so be it, the effects will be there, and if the price is there the demand could slowly build.

I already know how I'll package it. They look to be MUCH more delicate as far as processing and storage. So instead of going to dispensaries in sealed bags I could take them in Mason Jars already weighed out in 1/2 oz and 1oz of only multiple inch long nice bud/branches.

I could put a little story talking about the strain, picture of plant and date of harvest lol, and try to make fun of the untypical bud structure and appearance.

The thing with dispensaries is they will take anything at the right price. problem is people walk in with the wrong price in mind for the present demand.

 

[Terpene]

Idiit thx for your opinion and the topic of "meeting consumer expectations" is of critical importance, we still have to compete with "McDonalds Weed". But I do believe consumer expectations, as far as bud structure, can be met with 90% of ace/CBG genetics, however the ultra late flowering sativas are going to be the tough sell because their so unlike anything currently in market. From pictures it seems the Haze/Thais hybrids may have more potential of "more pretty denser tighter bud structure" than a pure haze but maybe I'm wrong?

I have been moderately successful in dealing with dispensaries and am confident I will be continue to be successful transitioning to "almost" entirely to ace/cannabiogen genetics. The quality of effects will be there, the key is meeting VISUAL expectations on bud structure. But even if I have to start off selling some Pure green haze at $400 a pound just cause their so damn ugly then so be it, the effects will be there, and if the price is there the demand could slowly build.

I already know how I'll package it. They look to be MUCH more delicate as far as processing and storage. So instead of going to dispensaries in sealed bags I could take them in Mason Jars already weighed out in 1/2 oz and 1oz of only multiple inch long nice bud/branches.

I could put a little story talking about the strain, picture of plant and date of harvest lol, and try to make fun of the untypical bud structure and appearance.

The thing with dispensaries is they will take anything at the right price. problem is people walk in with the wrong price in mind for the present demand.

You're right, pure hazes probably wont give you the bag appeal you're looking for but purple haze malawi / haze thais will provide a bit better weight and faster finishing times.

The mason jar / pics of the finished plant is a good idea. At your elevation, I'd imagine the purple side of the haze line will be nearly black from night time temps, so you can always explain that real piff / uptown haze / church are really just a very purple-black selection of haze.

I'd tell the owners to try some of the flowers as the high will be unlike any of the other lines they're currently offering. "Pure sativa" gets thrown around at dispensaries for hybrids like sour diesel, so they have no idea what they're in for. Whatever you do, I'll be watching - I love the Sierras as a backdrop.

 

[MountZionCollec]

Welcome Terpene. I am very interested in finding mothers in some of the Late October-late November flowering sativas available from Ace and from the pictures on icmag it seems fairly easy to find ones that hit on EVERY factor, including bag appeal, if you treat them right in the right environment.

Another thing so interesting about these late late flowering Sativas is a farmer can organize their harvest where They start harvesting in Sept/Octob/November
and just keep replacing with late flowering Sativas a perpetual harvest from late September until Mid January.

Even if the mason jar strategy with the pure hazes didn't work, though I think it could if marketed right to the right dispensary, you could just process the flowers into some ultra high grade concentrate.

 

[gorilla ganja]

Welcome Terpene. I am very interested in finding mothers in some of the Late October-late November flowering sativas available from Ace and from the pictures on icmag it seems fairly easy to find ones that hit on EVERY factor, including bag appeal, if you treat them right in the right environment.

Another thing so interesting about these late late flowering Sativas is a farmer can organize their harvest where They start harvesting in Sept/Octob/November
and just keep replacing with late flowering Sativas a perpetual harvest from late September until Mid January

That's a great strategy. Especially if you transplant nice babies like Mendo420 did in this post.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7058119&postcount=415

Love to see more pure Sativas making a comeback. Unfortunately hard to grow a pure Sativa up North outside where I'm from. But I back your effort's and sounds like a nice niche market to stand out from the crowd.
Peace GG

 

[MountZionCollec]

Thanks Gorilla those are insane lol!! He used 45 gallons but seeing his I maybe will bump the ones I do to 20 gallon instead of 10. I wouldn't have room in my greenhouse for 45 gallons and it would be soo tough moving them all to the garden I live on a hillside. the wife is luckily open to me growing ganja trees till the New Years I don't want to break her back in the process

 

[Terpene]

Welcome Terpene. I am very interested in finding mothers in some of the Late October-late November flowering sativas available from Ace and from the pictures on icmag it seems fairly easy to find ones that hit on EVERY factor, including bag appeal, if you treat them right in the right environment.

Another thing so interesting about these late late flowering Sativas is a farmer can organize their harvest where They start harvesting in Sept/Octob/November
and just keep replacing with late flowering Sativas a perpetual harvest from late September until Mid January.

Even if the mason jar strategy with the pure hazes didn't work, though I think it could if marketed right to the right dispensary, you could just process the flowers into some ultra high grade concentrate.

I have a friend who does exactly that for his personal garden. He plants indys / hybrids / sats and a few hazes so he's harvesting plants more or less perpetually from October until New Years.

As soon as your nights get below 55F you should see REALLY good color from the hazes - which are surprisingly resistant to very cold temps. Theres one grower in Germany (paging waldgeist) who routinely snaps pics of his hazes with snow on them. They look a little rough, but they're still cruising.

As for making concentrates - lol watch out. A member here made me some purple haze hash from his harvest and about the only thing I could do for 20-30 minutes was lay on the ground and pet my dog - just devastating stuff.

 

[MountZionCollec]

Planted some of the seeds on 8/3. By 8/7 7 of 11 seeds have germinated.

All most likely OLD stock

Old timers haze: 2/2
Purple haze*thai: 1/2
Purple haze: 2/2
Green haze: 0/2 (3 year old stock for sure)
Destroyer: 2/2


2 panama haze, 2 purple haze*malAwi, 1 Zamaldelica being sown tonight.

On Monday I will be ordering 6 of the new green haze stock being put up on ace, as well as 6 purple haze*thai

I will also do the free 5 Tikal seeds.

 

[jay sus]

to be able to grow these outdoors in a good climate would be wonderful. but at 60 degrees N that is not an option. so indoors it is. anyways, i´m curious how these late starters finish, so hope you find time to post when time comes. best of luck

 

[MountZionCollec]

I will be posting. I will also post a cannabinoid/terpinoid profile and smoke report of every female this winter

 

[Koondense]

Will they veg outdoors and get transplanted or you have them under lights until harvesting the monsters?