Protection for Me and my Mama's

[jantrit]

there was a thread on here a while back with some guy who had 2 shipping containers buried in his yard, do a search and it might come up.

edit here it is : http://icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11455&page=1&pp=15&highlight=underground

 

[texasluv]

It is true- I have only two posts. I guess that means I've only been doing this stuff as long as I've been registered to this site..... I may be new to this site, but not the content on this site. Been in the 'game' for over 8 years now, so I'm not just talking out of my ass.

Sardonic- I don't care what you "believe" is right. I live in the US. Where I live marijuana is illegal therefore growing it directly affects my freedom if I get caught. I know my rights, and I know the cops can bend the rules to get a bust. Shit, even if I get arrested and get out of the charges I still have to replace all my equipment, lose a harvest, and have to pay a lawyer. Keep your "mightier than thou" crap out of my face. You can explain your "its my body and my house" crap to the judge and see what he says. I feel the same as you about all these points, but I'm not going to let my pride get in the way of my freedom. If I lived somewhere where marijuana was legal we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Huff&Puff- Please continue to read along before you completely discredit me. I will call my friend today to see if he can get the scanner sometime soon so we can "play" again. This time I will be sure to take pics of the screen and show you. However, once the pics are posted I expect to have a video of someone eating a hat posted as well.

CT- The test was done roughly an hour after my lights came on. Temp in the room was 76 degrees when I tested with the polyshield up. When I took down the strip of polyshield room temp was close to 80. The things the thermal scanner picked up on the most was the lights (obviously), the ballasts mounted to the wall, and the air cooled ducting from the lights. The thermal display shows heat in colors, blue and purple being cooler and yellow, orange, and red being the hotter ones. With the scanner I could see a 6" tube getting progressively hotter as it flowed over the two main heat sources in the room. The only fan leaves I was able to pick up (barely) were the ones directly under the light- when I used a temperature meter on them it showed 83 degrees. I could also see my water heater and car's engine bay and exhaust as well. The car had been pulled into the garage about an hour before the test and was still fairly warm.

When I circled the house I could also make out my TV set (had been on for about an hour), my computer, and my heat lamp for my lizard. From the little bit of time I had to play with the thermal imaging scanner it appears that the more variations of temperature there are in a room, the better you can "see" what is going on. With little to no temp variation all you see is a big bluish blur with very little detail. The more orange/red (heat) in the room, the better you can "see" the layout due to the contrast with the blue background.

 

[yamaha_1fan]

.but the best bet is to maintain an air space. Think of a cabinet within a room. It won't matter if it's a million degrees in that cab...as long as the room itself is at 72 just like the rest of the house...infared won't see it from the other side of the wall.

All you have to do is isolate the heat from transferring into the exterior walls, foundation, or roof. Is throwing up some mylar on that wall going to do it? Not really. The 80* air from the room goes around the mylar

Texasluv, based on your limited time with the tool would you agree with the above?

I thought the same thing but if the tool can pick up a TV even though the air around it is cooler, then anonymiss's statement may not be accurate.

 

[alphacat]

This is why I keep waiting for LED light technology to improve to the point where it's really genuinely viable... although if it's a large scale grow then I'm not sure if even that'll help.

 

[Guest]

this is what flir sees and its not through walls...surround your house with trees and large bushes and your golden...peace

 

[texasluv]

this is what flir sees and its not through walls...surround your house with trees and large bushes and your golden...peace

brainthor- Thanks for the pic. That is very close to what the display of the thermal scanner looked like. I disagree with you that it cannot see through walls as it can, to an extent- definately not nearly as clear as that pic when scanning through something. You can tell by that picture that the house is either in full sun, or was in direct sunlight recently due to the high heat signature on the front walls.

I'm going to use the above picture as a reference for the following statements:

-If you look at the inside of the garage in the picture you can see the back wall is an almost solid blue color. That is what my entire grow area of my garage looked like with the polyshield in place.

-When I took the polyshield down and rescanned my room, I did it at the easiest place to remove the poly, the window. I took down a strip of poly from the ceiling all the way down to about 3 1/2' off the ground- level with the top of my AC unit. I scanned inside through the window opening, although the window still had a layer of panda paper over it to block the light from pouring out. I was able to easily make out my lights, air cooled ducting, and ballasts. Staring at it for a while I was able to make out the outline of what appeared to be large fan leaves. You really couldn't tell exactly what they were from the thermal device screen, but I knew what it was, and so would anyone else who suspected a grow op.

-Do you see the high heat reading at the tailpipe of the car? With my car parked in the garage with the door CLOSED, I could pick up the tailpipe reading, although it was not white like in this picture, it was more of pink/red. I could also pick up the water heater as it is very close to the garage door.

-The thermal scanner I used could pick up heat signatures behind walls, although they don't come out nearly as clear as anything outside of the house. You can still make out hot objects that are directly adjacent to the walls you are scanning. If there was a 1000W non-aircooled light running behind the green wall on the side of that house, I'm almost positive it would pick up the light- it depends on the building material of the house.

-The scanner picked up my TV, computer, and heat lamp from the outside of the house. That being said, all these appliances are within 2 feet or less of the windows I scanned through. Although I didn't think about it, I do not think these low-heat appliances would show through the walls themselves.

yamaha_1fan- I mostly agree with the statement you quoted. From what I can tell, the surface you are scanning directly affects the output of the scanner. However, if that cabinet was hot enough it believe it would show. From what I've personally experienced using the tool myself is it may pick up on the light, but nothing else due to it being centrally located away from the scanning device.


I have talked to my friend and he said he will be able to get the scanner again, he just isn't sure when. When he does I'll be sure to take a bunch of pics. I am no expert and I'm sure there will be a bunch of people telling me I'm full of crap- that doesn't bother me at all. I know what I've done, I know what I saw, and that is all I really care about. As far as I'm concerned, the polyshield is worth the money.

 

[Guest]

you dont see leafs through the wall dipstick your a liar for that statement alone...go rent one they are getting cheaper and you wouldnt have to lie about shit you read about..i know you will post pics to prove it...search the net and post so i can proove more you are full of it..peace...oh yeah i see you

 

[texasluv]

you dont see leafs through the wall...

It is spelled "leaves" and it was through a window covered in panda film and blinds alone.

Call me a liar, I could care less. I know what I did- it was in my hand.

 

[Guest]

put a sheet of plywood in the window and see what it reads then...seriously i have rented them anyone who is paranoid can rent one...dont listen to misinformation that is based on a product you can replicate for a fraction of the price and three times the efficacy...peace

 

[Guest]

because the garage door is open in the pic look at the other garage door and dont you think no thermal reading would be more suspicious than a thermal reading...and like i said lets see what you got

 

[HuffAndPuff]

brainthor, just when I thought he was starting to make a persuasive argument! Texasluv, bro, either way, it's all good. Nothing in life is all black or all white, or all blue, green and red, for that matter. I suspect the real, safe, and correct answer to the original question would be that products like these are another weapon in our defensive arsenal.

There is no one product, or thing that you can do to prevent your little grow being discovered. There are many, and they should be done religiously. Trash maintenance, soil/medium disposal, hydro store travel protocol, Odor removal, physical security, electrical upkeep, electrical useage patterns/total kilowatts. That's not even half of it.

If you have the money, go big, or go home. Hell, why not try the damn things? Worst case, they're mylar reflective, right? But are they the end all, be all? Will you get caught if you don't have them? Will you be safe if you do? No. No. And No. Tex, like you said, you know what you saw.

Man, I'm gonna suck when I have a kid like me. I know I got blamed for all kinds of shit that I didnt do, and no one would believe me, and it sucked. But, I did a whole bunch of other stuff that I'd lie cheat and steal to get out of, and I'da looked God himself in the eye, and asked him who he was going to believe, me, or his own lying eyes. He mighta thought about it, too, cuz I was good.

Either way, I can barely call someone out for BSing these days, even if I KNOW they're lying. At the end of the day, if they do what they should and stick to the same story, you can't say shit anyhow. And then there's ALWAYS the one-in-a-million, cuz it has to happen sometime. I look at it like the people who are lying are the ones who lose out, because here they had this opprtunity to interact in any way they could imagine/want to, and they choose to do it by lying. Sad.

Lemme know if I gotta start searching google videos.

HuffAndPuff

 

[anonymiss12345]

Why not, if it's buried about with 5 feet of dirt on top and the hot air is vented into the cattle barn, AND I only grow during the winter?

Need more than just a no to convince me.

And I just needed a semi decent response from you to elaborate ...which I don't mind doing.

You can take that container, which is metal, a VERY good heat conductor, and bury it a few feet under ground. The problem arises when you add that minimum of 4000+ watts of heat...especially during the winter btw.
Infrared detects 'temperature differential'...I've already said this once. That container, with your grow room in it, will warm up the ground around it enough so that it is warmer than the ground around IT.
BOOM...infrared detection.
Plus...heat rises. Of course I don't know how deep a particular container would have to be buried so that the surface ground temp remained unchanged...but I bet it's way more than 5ft....especially in winter.

 

[anonymiss12345]

In the US where I live it is to my understanding that they need a warrant to use IR on private property.

It is.
But if you think they don't use it whenever they can to at least start an investigation...especially cuz you're in the US where there is a HUGE Government organization with no other job than to bust you....

Good luck with that whole "Their not allowed to" thing.

 

[anonymiss12345]

Texasluv, based on your limited time with the tool would you agree with the above?

I thought the same thing but if the tool can pick up a TV even though the air around it is cooler, then anonymiss's statement may not be accurate.

I should start by clarifying that Thermal Imaging may very well produce different results than Infrared.
But for infrared...it may very well detect a heat source behind a wall from something like a tv.
Think of the tv as a simple heat source....not unlike a light bulb of equivalent btu's....they are emitting heat, which is transfered into the wall near it.
What I meant by an air space in my previous post...is if you had that same tv/bulb sealed inside of a box and it's heat had to transfer to/thru the box material, THEN to the exterior wall for the Infrared to detect....WAAAAY harder for Infrared to see.
And FLIR, Forward Looking InfaRed...is what is on the Cop Choppers. It can't see 'thru' anything. It detects a temperature differential of the surfaces it is scanning.

 

[ChristianTaylor]

Hey guys, I thought this thread was dead but apparently its booming with discussion.

Anonymiss- How is thermal imaging different then, and who uses what?
e.g. DEA, Sate police, City Police, etc.
e.g. FLIR, IR, TE

I want everyone interested in this to check out the water cooled lights. I have heard that they are the end all solution to protecting yourself from IR/TI. It places one glass shell around the bulb and another glass shell around the smaller shell protecting the bulb. Cold water is then pumped through the cavity between the two shells making the outer shell cool to the touch.
LiquidLumens
I don't know what the deal is with this company, I emailed them 3 days ago and they haven't gotten back to me. Although, it was the weekend and today was a holiday. We will see tomorrow.

Later guys,

-CT

 

[anonymiss12345]

Between nitetigers post in the other thread...plus all mine...if you don't 'get it'...I don't know what else to say. Sorry Dude.

I can't say for certain...but Thermal Imaging, the REAL thermal imaging, is military or maybe fire dept only imho. Cops can't afford that shit. Or the DEA.

 

[ChristianTaylor]

How is it different?

Also just wanted to tell everyone that the guys at liquid lumens did get back to me, I just checked my email. Guy seemed nice and to the point, like a legitimate company. He said you cant hang the vertically but that probably doesn't concern most growers.

Later,

-CT

 

[texasluv]

I'm glad I'm not completely getting smashed on for being the new guy. As for what I was using, I was told it was a thermal imaging scanner. If it is infrared or some other technology, I have no clue- I will write down any model # or company name when I have it in my hands again. I do know that he said it cost his department almost $45,000 to get it- and that is government pricing which is WAY cheaper than what the general public could buy it for. It is fairly new so perhaps I was playing with some newer technology? I dunno, when I do I will share to defend my reputation.

CT- If you want water-cooled lights there are options that allow you to have the bulb vertical. At my local hydro store they had a display of a 1000w light in a Hydro-hut mini, water cooled with only a 4" fan for intake/exhaust out of the hut and them temp stayed a steady 78. The setup looked like a special type of clear hose that was wrapped around the bulb and connected to either a water chiller or some sort of radiator-like pump. The pump constantly circulated water through the hose around the bulb. Honestly, $400 to cool a light seems a little excessive to me. I'd spend $200 on polyshield and the other $200 on aircooling the light- 2 birds with one stone.

 

[ChristianTaylor]

With those water cooled lights though you can get like 6" away from the plant. A company that also sells water cooled lights Here told me that you lose 8% of lumens in the process of the light going through the extra glass and water. However, because you can move the light to only 6" from the tops of the plants the result is 9x-16x more available light for the plant, if this is true I would say that makes up for that 8% loss of lumens. I also thought this was really interesting, this company claims that because the light travels through the water or something all spectrum's are increased by 5%, thats nuts if thats true.

Take it easy guys,

-CT

 

[texasluv]

Actually anony if they did use IR without a warrant all evidence and a case would be dismissed since they didnt use a warrant and invaded your privacy. A good lawyer would follow the investigation to make sure they followed the correct path for obtaining a warrant, would declare your constitutional rights had been broken, and have the case closed.

In the perfect world this is true. Fact of the matter is you have to pay for that good lawyer- and marijuana cultivation usually carries at least a $5000 retainer fee just to have the lawyer represent you. Then you have to replace all your equipment (which would cost me close to $5,000), post bail, deal with being "in the system" for the rest of your life, etc. That is $10,000 down the drain just to get life back to normal, not including the loss of an entire crop to the police. Get off your high horse and realize that not getting caught is the goal.

There are a lot of things you can get out of, for a price. I'd rather avoid the whole getting caught thing all together.

CT- I like the idea of being able to have your lights 6" from the plants, but then there is another issue- the light 'footprint'. I keep a 1000W light over each 4' x 4' area I have in my room and it stays about 12" over the canopy. Having it that close already the plants on the outskirts of my 4 x 4 area aren't getting quite enough light because it doesn't have enough distance to spread out before reaching the canopy. If I were to have the light 6" off the canopy I'd only be able to light up a 2' x 2' area, maybe 3' x 3' but the outside would be neglected again.

It sounds like the water cooled would work great for a personal grow where temp is a major concern, but wouldn't be as useful for a more 'commercial' grower. From what I've read it would be great for a screen of green style grow with lots of smaller plants.

There is a balance between light intensity and light distribution. Obviously, the closer to the plant, the higher the intensity, but the lower the light distribution. If I was only looking to grow some wicked strong personal plants, water cooled would be the way to go.