Proper maturity for an Ace sativa - ignore the trichomes?

[de145]

tl;dr - Is frostiness of trichomes less significant in sativas for judging harvest date than with indicas?
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I'm starting to wonder if strains that are pure sativa or predominantly sativa never really get frosty trichomes like indica predominant strains.

I'm starting to suspect that the sativa's really degrade quickly if they are left to mature too long.

With my indica strains it almost doesn't matter how long they go because I'm generally after a strong "stoned" effect which just intensifies (to a point) if they go long.

However the Sativas seem to lose much of what makes them interesting in a sativa way if they go even just slightly longer. They don't get stronger or better, they just seem to go "flat" in effect and lose the "high" and get more of a "stone".

I don't want to harvest too early though and end up with a 15 minute buzz, too early really results in short "legs" I've found.

Dubi mentions often that he likes to harvest a bit early in many of the Ace threads here and I'm starting to wonder if early is actually on time.

I think I've ruined more than one sativa by waiting too long for the trichomes to go frosty and I think they actually never do, at least not completely opaque frosty like my indicas do.

I had one panama pheno that I was determined to see go frosty and I let it go to 14 weeks and still it would not get opaquely frosty like my indicas do. I gave up and chopped it and it sucked, very weak. Same exact thing happened a few years ago with an Island Sweet Skunk which is also predominantly sativa, let it go forever and it would not get opaquely frosty and the only amber trichomes were the ones that were damaged and popped.

I've had the experience a few times of taking an early sample of a new Ace sativa strain a few weeks before my estimated harvest date and finding it incredibly potent, then at harvest finding it much less potent, kind of flat.

I was using the Ace recommended harvest weeks on the site but I think now those are from first indication of pistils and likely also for seed grown plants, not for clones and not from the flip to 12/12.

I'm thinking of going back to the old classic "hippy" method of judging harvest time by watching for the pistils to be about half brown / red and dead and half fresh as my "drop dead" date to not go beyond regardless of what the trichomes look like.

What do you guys do and do you think the trichomes are less significant with Sativas?

 

[excalibud7]

well my hand has rose to add my 2 cents and i can say ive never seen a dark colored tric yet i pull when cloudy and still get baked and the weed changes the longer you cure....but you have started a good topic so i hope you get the answers you seek...

 

[yoss33]

The sativas' trichomes don't get milky(white) and opaque, they slowly become less and less transparent and yellow. This might be a good way to distinguish between hybrids, as the ones with only a pinch of indica usually preserve this sativa resin behaviour.
And I hear you on the effects of late harvests. Loving the energetic mental effects, I've always been disappointed by late harvests for the same reasons as you. However, I think of this as my personal preference, as I see many people both online and among my friends who like the stoning of the later harvest and call this effect "stronger", while for me it's "weaker" and more boring. The last few years I grow big plants that, when harvested whole, give me jars of the whole spectrum of maturity. The most mature tops I smoke in the late evenings.

 

[ThaiBliss]

Greetings,

This is a great topic. I have been growing for a long time, and I have changed my notions on this so many times. I really think it is very strain dependent. The best plan is to do multiple harvests on a plant until you learn at what stage is best for that plant.

I grew a Neville's Haze once that did not grow buds at all really, just some clusters of calyxes. It kept pushing pistils, one at a time, so I just let it go really long. One day as I looked upon it, it just looked spent, and no more new pistils. I harvested it, and it was the best weed I ever smoked. After that experience, I thought that I had always been harvesting early.

One of my next grows, I had a Jamaican Blue Mountain that I had grown previously. At that time, I thought it had some really interesting up and trippy effects, but was a bit mild. I was sure if I let it ripen longer, it would be awesome. I let it go about 3 weeks longer, and it turned out flat, like you said. It did not have that magic anymore, and it was not stronger at all. I've had similar experiences with other strains.

However, when I went back to that Neville's Haze, I tried to speed things up a bit by reducing the daylight hours progressively. I got it to stop pushing pistils about 2 weeks sooner. It turned out crappy.

Now I don't know what to think. I have purchased a good jeweler's loupe, and I have started tracking the glands better. When I grew ACE's Golden Tiger, I reached out for help on when to flower, and I pretty much heard the standard advice for any strain. I think you should experiment, but my standard is to take it when I see any opaque amber at all. If it turns out good, I can fine tune harvest time from there to see if I can improve it.

Here is a picture of Bangi Haze at harvest. This one turned out with fine effects. I did not find it "racy" as advertised, so I think I could have taken it about a week earlier. If you look carefully, there is the occasional amber resin head. A week earlier, there were some amber, but harder to find:

I'm hoping for lots of varied opinions and experiences from other growers.

Good Luck,

ThaiBliss

 

[Terpene]

Simple answer: when sativas stop pushing new white hairs altogether, its time to kill them. If you pull it before, it will make the high racier.

Long answer: My trichs never brown out (or barely) and I run things overly long on purpose - it makes the effect last longer and it's not as racy. If you associate raciness with sativas, you will want to pull them earlier. The tradeoff is the high doesn't have legs if you pull plants too early as you've seen.

I once read about african sativas and how they were generally terrifying, but got really heart pounding intense when they were left for dead (no white hairs left) and were more speedy and less scary when they were picked earlier. The author said that from that day on, he always let em run till they were basically dead.

In my experience, this has been true of every line I've smoked. If you wait for full calyx development the high is always more intense and lasts longer. I would wager that your "flat" plants which went longer are either a product of environment or genetics, but like I said, if you expect racy and you get dreamy or psychedelic - you'll think you're ruining them.

 

[crazyfool*]

I really think it is much more of an individual trace, than a generic strain, or sativa trace....

some plants never get amber heads, or rarely produce one here and there, but some have amber heads all over the place and still shoot pistils.... best way to to know when to chop really is by growing the same cut numerous times, get to know the plant well before you discard it or make any presumptions about it bofore you know her well....

 

[MostlyMe]

Interesting stuff. I think I'll try and do multiple harvests to see what I like best.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

I had an Ace Panama which was a great energetic all day smoke. I could smoke it in the morning and all day with no tiring come-down. Loved that plant like candy. Then I decided to run a crop longer to see what the changes in effect were. Never got the real darkening of trichs like other cultivars but eventually the plants themselves were browning and seemed tired and droopy. It was obvious they were spent. That smoke was a day wrecker. Got me high but no energy. Just made me more and more tired the more I smoked. Total fatigue weed. Really regretted doing this experiment with so many plants instead of just one.

 

[Rondelia]

fuck I posted in the wrong thread, that vape is really good i guess

 

[sweet-emotion]

Until now I've grown only 14 different plants/genetics, always outdoors. I like to cut the plants when the flowers look like they're decaying, with some brown pistils and some 15%-20%) brown trichomes. The first three plants I had were not cut with this method, and were not so strong and special. The second year I started doing it like that and it didn't mind if they were indica or sativa dominant, I always got strong but different effects, like each plant showing its strenght. Last year I did the same, and got even better results, specially with one Flo and one WW. That's my experience and hope this upcoming summer I'll do well with the Zamaldelicas, VBxT and Green Haze I bought

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

Some great observations in this thread, I have also noticed similar things.

With Indicas and also plants with some Indica in them, I like to leave as long as possible, they almost all just seem to get better, but with pure Sativas, such as ACE/Cannabiogen strains, the effects seem to build up far earlier, early Indicas are rubbish, early Sativas are frequently surprisingly good.

To really nail the harvest point, I like to take photos with date and descriptions on a piece pf paper in shot, label the cut test bud and sample later, that way you can go back and see what X really looked like at her best harvest point.

 

[MostlyMe]

From what I read here, it seems all smoke reports are fairly useless.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

From what I read here, it seems all smoke reports are fairly useless.

Oh no. Find somebody who likes the kind of high you're after. Somebody who enjoys the same smoke that you've found works for you. Then explore the other strains that they've found to be a good experience.

 

[de145]

Great responses everyone! I have a sneaking suspicion that the early "here and there" amber trichomes I see sometimes are due almost entirely to physically damage, i.e. that trichomes bubble burst from being brushed against or poked with a magnifying glass or something and it then went brown.

I suspect that because it will happen even with predominantly crystal clear trichomes everywhere else.

I guess the only real solution to picking a harvest date is to take samples every week of as similar as possible buds starting a few weeks before projected finished date and then a few weeks after just to be sure but take the bulk when it seems good enough.

I have a Bangi Haze at 7 weeks with about 90% dead brown pistils on it and the smoke was fantastic last time I tested it. I'm starting to think I should harvest the bulk of it now and then leave some to test up to the recommended 9-10 weeks and a bit beyond.

 

[BOMBAYCAT]

I chopped the Nepal Jam 3 weeks early because of the torrential rains here in Colorado (I am 25 miles S. of the floods). Anyway I was not expecting much so I grabbed a branch off the drying line to smoke test. It was just dry enough to burn a bud. I was impressed as it was a nice high (not racy) but it didn't seem to last long then the high came in waves for a long time.

 

[3dDream]

The problem with looking for brown trics is where do you look? A sativa has flowers in so many cycles that you can be looking at a fresh spot instead of an old flower.

I am with some of the other posters. Try different times and flower them until they stop making flowers. If you are lucky enough to have a plant with color, the color and sometimes lets you know when to stop.

Good luck!

 

[crazyfool*]

Great responses everyone! I have a sneaking suspicion that the early "here and there" amber trichomes I see sometimes are due almost entirely to physically damage, i.e. that trichomes bubble burst from being brushed against or poked with a magnifying glass or something and it then went brown.

I suspect that because it will happen even with predominantly crystal clear trichomes everywhere else.

I guess the only real solution to picking a harvest date is to take samples every week of as similar as possible buds starting a few weeks before projected finished date and then a few weeks after just to be sure but take the bulk when it seems good enough.

I have a Bangi Haze at 7 weeks with about 90% dead brown pistils on it and the smoke was fantastic last time I tested it. I'm starting to think I should harvest the bulk of it now and then leave some to test up to the recommended 9-10 weeks and a bit beyond.

man, Bangui Haze with 7 weeks is probably wayy too early, fastest sativas and sativa hybrids arround flower for 9-10 weeks, ocasionally an earlier pheno might appear, making it possible to be ripe at arround 8 weeks, I mean, don´t get me wrong, its your ganja, you should grow it to your taste, but from my experiance, pure sativas, eaven when pistils are brown , still swell her calixs, and still produce terpens, flavor , and cannabinnoids.... usually when sativas look ready you should let them go another 1 or 2 weeks for them to fatten up and grease up.

chopping the planta acording to tricome color is a bit sillly IMHO, doesn´t matter if its Sativa, Indica or Hybrid.... Cannabis has hundreds, or thousands of active cannabinoids with different effects, some are stronger, some are weeker, but every variaty of cannabis produces different oil, different terpens, different cannabinoids, and they need the right time to acheave its peak! , as most of us know, peak of THC production is when trichomes are more cloudy then amber or clear, but what about other components of the plant? CBD, CDB? CBDA? THCA? and many other compounds we don´t eaven know about because it hasn´t been studied yet? .....

thats why I state, that its nice to grow the plant a few times.... or have more then one planta, then you can chop at 7 weeks, 9 weeks and 11 weeks, to give you a good spectrum of what to expect from a plant on every level of maturaty!

this is a very cool thread, I´m eager to see wha other people think about the subject

 

[ThaiBliss]

man, Bangui Haze with 7 weeks is probably wayy too early, fastest sativas and sativa hybrids arround flower for 9-10 weeks, ocasionally an earlier pheno might appear, making it possible to be ripe at arround 8 weeks, I mean, don´t get me wrong, its your ganja, you should grow it to your taste, but from my experiance, pure sativas, eaven when pistils are brown , still swell her calixs, and still produce terpens, flavor , and cannabinnoids.... usually when sativas look ready you should let them go another 1 or 2 weeks for them to fatten up and grease up.

chopping the planta acording to tricome color is a bit sillly IMHO, doesn´t matter if its Sativa, Indica or Hybrid.... Cannabis has hundreds, or thousands of active cannabinoids with different effects, some are stronger, some are weeker, but every variaty of cannabis produces different oil, different terpens, different cannabinoids, and they need the right time to acheave its peak! , as most of us know, peak of THC production is when trichomes are more cloudy then amber or clear, but what about other components of the plant? CBD, CDB? CBDA? THCA? and many other compounds we don´t eaven know about because it hasn´t been studied yet? .....

thats why I state, that its nice to grow the plant a few times.... or have more then one planta, then you can chop at 7 weeks, 9 weeks and 11 weeks, to give you a good spectrum of what to expect from a plant on every level of maturaty!

this is a very cool thread, I´m eager to see wha other people think about the subject

Apparently, it had to be cut. Also, not all terpenes are good for the best effect according to something I read just the other day. We all know that terpene profiles change over the course of growing and flowering. Of course, we all have different preferences for effects that we enjoy. Check out my post:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=5981632&postcount=88

Happy Harvests,

ThaiBliss

 

[wingdings]

As my panama cut has matured, it seems to finish faster and faster. If I take her past 65 days anymore there is an abundance of amber trichomes and the smoke is pure devastation.
I took my zamaldelica down a little early this round at 12 weeks. First tests are upbeat positive clear. Whereas before it was more Malawi influenced in the effect.

 

[de145]

So the bottom line seems to be take samples early and often throughout the flowering and smoke them to find the sweet spot. Among the data I've started tracking for this I think the most important is how long the affect lasts for with the same three tokes of the same sample size in my mini-bong, short legs are clearly a sign of it being too immature, anything that makes me want to re-toke in under an hour is too weak still to be worthwhile I think.

(I've found the microwave steam quick dry method to be the most simple, fastest, accurate and least damaging of all the quick dry methods out there and perfect for this purpose)

One thing though: Does anyone know if temperatures affect how quickly a plant matures?

I know plants grow stretchier the hotter it is, that's something I've witnessed many times but I also have a suspicion that they mature faster if it's colder, perhaps it's a signal for fall to them?

(Those of us that don't have perfect climate control might find all our tracking of this info for naught if temperatures fluctuate throughout the year and throw it all off)