preventing early spring flowering with clones

[ChaosCatalunya]

Hi All,

I have had a few chats with people here about just this recently, so please forgive me for repeating myself a little.

I lost out big time in 2007 due to this, but learned a bit.....

growing from seeds doesn't matter?

I have mentioned this, and several others seemed to agree, Clones are a bit more susceptible than Seed grown plants, Indica dom plants may also be slightly more likely to do this than Sativas. You may not loose 50%, it could be more or it may be less, but you will significantly loose.

As most of you have sussed out, tailoring a sympathetic light schedule indoors [or a bit of supplemental light to lengthen the photoperiod outside] will stop them flowering.

If your climate allows it, why try to beat nature when you can work with her, I have some nice outdoor plants finishing in a few weeks to help me get through the long summer, while this summer's monsters are already vegging up to 1m high already.

2 weeks ago, flowering happily....

 

[Dignan]

Say, dig's..

Youve known about this for a wile now?......Did ya use 15/9 on yer K dragons and such last year?......

Dignan, Im curious as to your reasoning and the basis for subtracting 60 minutes from the top and bottom. I use the principle of " how much light will effect the plant" philosophy, but I only deduct 15 minutes in the morning and 15 in the evening. Reasoning: A full moon is bright enough to cast a decent shadow but doesnt affect the plants reproductive stability. How much more light than a full moon puts out, does it take to affect the plant in that way? I use that baseline for determining how much dawn or twilight is required before the plants respond to the light. I believe that to be about 15. When the sun has been up over the horizon for 15 min, or 15 minutes before dark is when the light reaches that point of just exceeding the light of a full moon. This is all conjecture however and I could be wrong , how did you arrive at your time? So few take this approach so Im interested in your thoughts.

sb

Hey fellas.

Let me just sayfirst that there is a lot of guesswork (and a little growing folklore) involved here. This is just what I've done the past few seasons and has worked, after putting out a few plants in 2005 that flowered prematurely, then never stopped. I ended up with malformed buds on 2' plants.

So I started tinkering and chatting with FastPine and BACKCOUNTRY here and decided to alter my photoperiod indoors to keep that from happening. I've had no problems since.

I originally was using Sunrise/Sunset =/- 90 minutes, which I think for my location and putting plants out May 15 had me at 15/9, FastPine, but I don't remember exactly. I'd have to go back and look at my records.

This winter though, I was having a conversation with two oldschool NorCal outdoor growers whose opinions I have grown to trust. They told me, "no no, it's not 90 minutes... we all used 60 minutes" added/subtracted from sunrise/sunset times back in the day." So I use 16/8 now, which is what corresponds with the rise/set times here on May 15.

So... as with many aspects of my methods, not exactly science, but good solid experience from the people who have put in the footwork over 30 years. And a little folklore maybe. I happen to like the folklore... as long as it doesn't cost me money.

Oh and silverback bru... to address your question (I can't definitively answer it, naturally)... right now where I am, the sunrise time is officially 5:47 AM, but I've been heading out to cache water and prep my plots and I always try to get dressed while it's still dark and arrive at the parking spot JUST as it's starting to get light, for the sake of being stealth. All I can say is that if I don't get out there before 5 AM at the very latest, I might as well be out there at 10 AM because it's already light out.

The Full Moon is indeed bright enough to see by, especially here at altitude in an arid climate. But still, it's far lighter (here at least) 45 minutes before sunrise than it ever is at midnight on a Full Moon.

Plus, cannabis folks have been wondering for decades now how it is that Full Moonlight doesn't interrupt flowering of cannabis plants. I don't think anyone really knows why. Some speculate that it's the spectrum of moonlight and others say it's the intensity of the light a plant is exposed to that is crucial. For instance, if you take a plant that is under 18/6 in a room with a 1000W HPS and then you stick that plant under fluorescent tubes with the same 18/6 photoperiod... the plant will often begin flowering because of the decrease in intensity of the light.

The way I think that translates over to a plant being grown outdoors is this (and this is just theory- I'm not pretending to lay down the law here): If a plant spends its daylight hours under a blazing Sun, even Full Moonlight won't be enough to interrupt its flowering cycle. The differential between the intensity of the two light sources is too great.

And the way this light intensity concept/theory works to an outdoor grower's advantage when they are starting plants indoors is... if you can match the photoperiod indoors/outdoors and you can get pretty close, pretty close will usually be close enough, because even when you start plants under HIDs indoors (and it's even more true when starting under fluoros), any small discrepancysin the photoperiod will be made up for by the sheer intensity of the light from the Sun outdoors vs. the conditions the plant was under indoors. The intensity of Sunlight can't compensate for large discrepancies in photoperiods, though, so you have to be careful.

I gotta run. Sorry to ramble and again... just theory here. I'm no scientist and I'm no outdoor growing master... but I think most of that makes sense. And seems to work well.

Happy growing, everyone!

Dig

 

[Guyute54]

Hey Dig deffinatley some grerat info you are posting. You add the hour for what is called twilight. As we know it's light out before we actually see the sun. Of course it's not that powerful of light but I think it's enough to be considered daylight hours. 16/8 is what I am going with this year also and havn't noticed anything flowering under that light scheduale. I have a few strains that are considered early strains also.

I would like to point out that I am having some trouble with the 16/8 schedule though. I have a seperate cab I am sexing my seedlings in. After they show sex I put them back under the 16/8 light scheduale. And unfortunatley they are really slow going back into veg.. It's been a week and they keep shoting out new pistils. I'm thinking I might have to do 3 seperate rooms all with different light cycles next year to keep things rolling smother. I'll need the 16/8 for veg cab. The 12/12 for sexing. And a 24/0 cab to snap them back into veg. Of course if you plan on sexing outdoors or our just using clones no need to worry about the extra two cabs.

 

[Dignan]

I started a bunch of veggies indoors this year, in both my flower room and mother cabinet and ran into similar scheduling troubles. Mainly because if the lights were off for more than a couple hours, the temps dropped too low for germination, and I had a bunch of different things starting from seed.

Long story short, my mother plants for this outdoor season were started under 21/3 and I've spent the last few weeks reducing the lights-on period. I bump it down 30 minutes every few days and have finally ended up at 16/8 now and managed to do it without initiating flowering.

Pain in the a** for sure.

 

[swampdank]

agreed with taking clones from 1 of april on, for ready for transplant clones 1 of may ... but why not root clones under 15hrs light 9hrs night(just like the photoperiod diet for rooting of seedlings in nature), like that when planted outside rootbound or not, natural light is only augmenting ... they then should not triger(I hope 'coz that's what i'm gearing to do)

i root my clones under 16/8. i found better survival rates this way. i bet they could be pushed to 15/9. most of my clones are DJs f13 so the sativa influence is there.

 

[NickMode]

I have a question.

In my area 39N lat the sun rises around 6am and sets around 7pm.

My plants are vegging right now under 15 hours. the lights start at 745pm and stop at 1045pm. When i take them outside are they going to stress of flower if i take them out at like 10pm. thye would get 24 hours light for 1 day.

 

[Huey69]

I just saw this thread today..wish I would have seen it sooner. So far this season I've had 2 sets of clones flower. The first group(of 6) were put out march 14. They're heavily flowering now. The second set was put out april 16th, and appears to be flowering. My question is, I live at 34N, if I were to get clones tomorrow or the next day from a dispensary, would they flower? If so, what would the best time for me to get clones at? I don't really have the option of setting up much indoors(although, I could...but I have no clue where to start as far as lights, grow-room setup, etc).

Also, what are signs of re-vegging? I have no clue what to look for to see if this plants are going to or not, and any help with identifying that would be appreciated.

 

[jamrock]

What about topping the plant

What about topping the plant

Is topping an alternative. Would that help it reveg?

Jamrock

 

[PrideofCucamong]

I have a few seedlings that are from 1 to 2 weeks old. They have been under 24 hour light, but i want to switch it to 16/8 to prevent from flowering when i put them outside. Is this a possibility or will they start flowering when i switch them to 16/8?

 

[Guyute54]

Is topping an alternative. Would that help it reveg?

Jamrock

Unfortunatley no. I treid this myself. It really all comes down to light. If there not getting the amount of light they need they flower if they get enough they veg.

I have a question.

In my area 39N lat the sun rises around 6am and sets around 7pm.

My plants are vegging right now under 15 hours. the lights start at 745pm and stop at 1045pm. When i take them outside are they going to stress of flower if i take them out at like 10pm. thye would get 24 hours light for 1 day.

The exta light shouldn't bother them.

I have a few seedlings that are from 1 to 2 weeks old. They have been under 24 hour light, but i want to switch it to 16/8 to prevent from flowering when i put them outside. Is this a possibility or will they start flowering when i switch them to 16/8?

Beind so young I wouldn't worry about it. Just switch them back and they will be fine.

I just saw this thread today..wish I would have seen it sooner. So far this season I've had 2 sets of clones flower. The first group(of 6) were put out march 14. They're heavily flowering now. The second set was put out april 16th, and appears to be flowering. My question is, I live at 34N, if I were to get clones tomorrow or the next day from a dispensary, would they flower? If so, what would the best time for me to get clones at? I don't really have the option of setting up much indoors(although, I could...but I have no clue where to start as far as lights, grow-room setup, etc).

Also, what are signs of re-vegging? I have no clue what to look for to see if this plants are going to or not, and any help with identifying that would be appreciated.

A safe bet would be to get some clones in early June. You might be able to get away with it right now but I personnally would wait 2-3 weeks yet. Signs of reveging are lots of single weird looking leafs forming. After a week of the odd growth you will start to notice new branchs starting to shoot out.

Here's the start of a reveged plant




And her she is a few weeks later





Update on my 16/8 light cycle. Most are vegging just fine. Some early strains though did start to flower on that light scheduale. So it all is really going to boil down to strains. But 16/8 seems to be working the best for me. We'll see though how they react once they get put outside.

 

[Betty's Boy]

these are from seed. started 2/12/08. under flo's 24/0 for 19 day's then 10 day's of 18/6. switched flo's for 2-400 watt hortilux blue's, still 18/6. To many in the flower room, so they went outside, around 4/12/08. light schedule now is 14/10,outside. 5/10/08. All have small bud's on them. So I'm hoping for the best, but we;ll see. If anyone is intrested I'll post again later.!

forgot the pic's...lol

 

[Colt122]

Photosensitive plants will allways flower when grown under 24 or 18 then placed outside like many of you are doing...16/8 is the key

Some strains will do fine under 18,clone easily, and will go outside under 16/8 and still veg....I mean most of us are after that strain, but with the possibilities of cutting time in half and running 2 crops intead of one..well now its anyones game Gotta love it, gonna nail it.
Im running quite a few strains and counting, just started the auto's, im running 24hour light on clones, 16 hour light,clones and seedlings and of course 18/6 for the same. A cpl autos went into the 16 and flowered It happens

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

This year I vegged indoors under 18, then reduced the photoperiod to match the outdoor times using this very handy website ... just navigate to your hometown/latitude and all you need to know is there. This year I have a nice little Spring crop to enjoy and some feisty ladies just going out without going into flower.

 

[Climbinghigh]

Last year I had clones almost fully rooted in their cups under 16/8, planted out on June 1st at 46 N, with no problems and good yield. So this year I'm doin more of the same.
The key is to follow the cycles already set in place-
plant in harmony

 

[Huey69]

A safe bet would be to get some clones in early June. You might be able to get away with it right now but I personnally would wait 2-3 weeks yet. Signs of reveging are lots of single weird looking leafs forming. After a week of the odd growth you will start to notice new branchs starting to shoot out.

Here's the start of a reveged plant
[image]
.

Hmmm...do these plants look like they are re-veging? If you noticed in the pics, the plants look like they are stretching(the bud sites were much tighter before up until I'd say roughly a week ago). There are also single bladed leaves(about an inch long)(notice these in the last pic for best view, albeit a bad picture).

 

[Dignan]

They sure do ^^^

 

[Gods son]

don't expect too much from this plant... a seedling will grow far bigger till the end of the season.

the growth is very slow almost nothing now... this plant is flowering.. yet... later it will re-veg but it won't grow too much at all

GS

 

[Guyute54]

Huey69 - That plant is deffinatley reveging. There's lots of time left for those plants to get big so you should have a decent harvest come fall. You will notice with the revege also that there will be a shit load of new growth tips, branches. Reveged plants make great mother plants to get clones off of also. In another month though I would recomend taking all the immature buds off. Because of mold and bud root problems.

I reccomend making butter with the buds. THen a nice pan of brownies or cookies. Sometimes edibles get me just flying. Best of luck.

 

[Huey69]

Huey69 - That plant is deffinatley reveging. There's lots of time left for those plants to get big so you should have a decent harvest come fall. You will notice with the revege also that there will be a shit load of new growth tips, branches. Reveged plants make great mother plants to get clones off of also. In another month though I would recomend taking all the immature buds off. Because of mold and bud root problems.

I reccomend making butter with the buds. THen a nice pan of brownies or cookies. Sometimes edibles get me just flying. Best of luck.

Awesome. So 3 out of 6 plants are re-veging hopefully the other 3 are as well, just not as noticeable.

Will the buds be smokable(although I guess there would be no flush..)? Or should I just make some hash oil out of them? I'm not the biggest edible fan(although i'll take a free one from a dispensary anytime haha.

 

[Climbinghigh]

^^well, smokable can be a relative term depending on how excited you are to taste your hard work, or how hard up you are for some smoke. For me, if it burns it's smokable- though patience is a growers second greatest virtue, next to silence. If the popcorn is lookin frosty, then maybe hash oil is the way to go if you don't like treats. But I've made butter a couple times, and the versatility of it is so much fun! IMO The best way to wake n' bake is frying a couple eggs in ganja butter, then putting them on toast slathered in ganja butter, and after breakfast, smoke a doobie while you finish your coffee- highly recommended for Sunday mornings, unless you're going to church Too bad nobody's handing out brownies up here ): -peace