this is a tough one... i have been searching for a funky affie/ hashplant for years and am still empty handed. pre soviet post soviet? mmm i think the genetics are still around they grew herb there for thousands of years pre soviet and there was many times which war, drought, invasion, earthquakes, etc and they remained landraces all that time so i dont think the soviet or us invasion has changed the genetics of affies. i hear about marines bringing seeds ho,e all the time so i know there are pleny of affies out there. unfortunately most seeds are in the hands of inexperienced people (friends of the people who brought the seeds home and try to give it a go and end up making tons of mistakes. so i think alot of time its not the genetics but the growers. i have also seen pictures of huge fields of herb in Afghanistan (modern pics) and there are many phenos mixed in together. you will see some big plants, some barely 3' tall (none larger than 6' tall, but some are much bushier than others) some with huge fan leaves (wide blades, duckfoot style) some not so wide but all are indicas. i really want hp 13 or the og la affie that made her rounds in the 80's(the la affie). regaurdless i think the dna of those beloved affies is still around. might be a bit tougher to find though...
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"Pre-Soviet" Afghani Question
- Thread starter Reign of Terror
- Start date
Great info... Looking into these lines... Peace
St. Phatty
Active member
definitely.
and when they got stoned, there was no LEO to worry about.
Just marauding neighbors.
sh-t, i'd share the ganja with the marauding neighbors in the hopes of them chilling out.
a cat up here is slinging affie cuts as well as afcrack, afghan x skunk#1 (super skunk?) and a few other affie varieties. i think i =m gonna pick some up(the pure affie and affie x skunk. there is also a purple indica x afghani going around that im gonna pick up. it is chronic headstash for late night.
I have access to a pack of these. should I grab them. are they more for a breeder or should be incredible on their own?
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Pre-Invasion Afghans (F-5's), from seeds I cold stored in 1981, &
1990, & 2015.
Background Info: I (Ohsogreen) picked up about 500 of these seeds
on the upper trade routes of the Indus River in Pakistan, in late
1977 / early 1978. I was there doing a Hash Deal. Prior to the Big
Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan. These were from tribal lines, grown
in both Afghanistan and Pakistan.
I made the (F-2's) of them in late 1980, using over a dozen
females, and no less than a dozen males (cold stored some of these
in early 81).
I made the (F-3's) in late 1989, they were also made using over a
dozen females, and no less than a dozen males (cold stored them in
early 90).
I broke them out late January 2014, and did an (F-4) run. Did an
even split on both, eight F-2 moms, eight F-3 moms, same split on
the dads. The selections were the best candidates, based on my past
experience with them.
In Feb 2016 I broke out cold stored seeds from 1990, and 2015 of
this line, and did another open pollination. Using an even split of
6 females from each year, and 6 males from each year. Harvested in
July 2016.
These are True (un-Dutch-ified) Afghan's both low & highland phenos.
Stellar breeding stock, wicked potent, good range of flavors /
odors (offensive to sweet), bud types (rock hard nugs, to semi-
skunk style colas), and trich coverage from fair to dripping....
-
Pre-Invasion Afghans (F-5's), from seeds I cold stored in 1981, &
1990, & 2015.
Background Info: I (Ohsogreen) picked up about 500 of these seeds
on the upper trade routes of the Indus River in Pakistan, in late
1977 / early 1978. I was there doing a Hash Deal. Prior to the Big
Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan. These were from tribal lines, grown
in both Afghanistan and Pakistan.
I made the (F-2's) of them in late 1980, using over a dozen
females, and no less than a dozen males (cold stored some of these
in early 81).
I made the (F-3's) in late 1989, they were also made using over a
dozen females, and no less than a dozen males (cold stored them in
early 90).
I broke them out late January 2014, and did an (F-4) run. Did an
even split on both, eight F-2 moms, eight F-3 moms, same split on
the dads. The selections were the best candidates, based on my past
experience with them.
In Feb 2016 I broke out cold stored seeds from 1990, and 2015 of
this line, and did another open pollination. Using an even split of
6 females from each year, and 6 males from each year. Harvested in
July 2016.
These are True (un-Dutch-ified) Afghan's both low & highland phenos.
Stellar breeding stock, wicked potent, good range of flavors /
odors (offensive to sweet), bud types (rock hard nugs, to semi-
skunk style colas), and trich coverage from fair to dripping....
Kush_Kloud
Active member
Yea you should get them! They can be for breeders or preservationists or just growers looking for a new experience. You could find somthing very incredible or not. When could I get some of these seeds?
KK
KK
I read the other day that there are many people remote parts of Afghanistan that are nor even aware of the Soviet Invasion, let alone Al Q, Osama BL, ISIS, nothing... they are so cut off from everything that their genetics are not going to be too messed with...
A good read to give you a taste of Afghanistan is "A short walk in the Hindu Kush" by Eric Newby, in 1958... if you read of his travels there, ans see how small https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuristan_Province that part is compared to the rest, you get an idea of the scale of the place.
One IC member I know has a family connection there in a place "too high altitude to be bothered by the Taliban"... again, likely their plants are unmolested. It may also be too high for weed, I cant remember
A good read to give you a taste of Afghanistan is "A short walk in the Hindu Kush" by Eric Newby, in 1958... if you read of his travels there, ans see how small https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuristan_Province that part is compared to the rest, you get an idea of the scale of the place.
One IC member I know has a family connection there in a place "too high altitude to be bothered by the Taliban"... again, likely their plants are unmolested. It may also be too high for weed, I cant remember
For the most part, "pre soviet" is a marketing term only
As for the guy selling circa 1977 seed stock, I know the pathans and he got shwag, just like the guy Ben donkers hired to purchase seeds from tribes in Pakistan
The best indicas are already in seed form imo
NL, sensi star and maple leaf indica would and do make killer breeding stock
The og Kush came from within 50 miles of the kyber pass and according to elders who have smelled my og, it still grows wild
There are 2 phenotype, one is a beefy 6' tall high yielded acrid type
And then there's the og Kush which we all know and love
Spindly, low yielded, with a sour acrid smell
I'll document starting fall of 2017 with fresh seed
"All good things in all good time"
As for the guy selling circa 1977 seed stock, I know the pathans and he got shwag, just like the guy Ben donkers hired to purchase seeds from tribes in Pakistan
The best indicas are already in seed form imo
NL, sensi star and maple leaf indica would and do make killer breeding stock
The og Kush came from within 50 miles of the kyber pass and according to elders who have smelled my og, it still grows wild
There are 2 phenotype, one is a beefy 6' tall high yielded acrid type
And then there's the og Kush which we all know and love
Spindly, low yielded, with a sour acrid smell
I'll document starting fall of 2017 with fresh seed
"All good things in all good time"
All the "pre-soviet" afghan thing is just a good marketing gimmick indeed... people are trying to get people think their genetics are better or rarer than anyone else's. It has been always like that within the scene.
On the other hand it wasn't a Soviet war actually. The first Afghan war (78-92) was an US war against the USSR that took part within the Cold War perspective. This war took place through the hands of terrorists in Afghanistan. Money, weapons and training were supplied by the US to the mujahidin rebels who were fighting the afghan troops from the Afghan Democratic Republic, who had the support of the URSS. War or Soviet Union shouldn't have any influence on Cannabis species or its genetic evolution to be honest, it just makes no sense. But it's common American propaganda against Russia and widely used on the scene as a "primo seal" for Hindu Kush hashplants.
The CIA encouraged poppy cultivation and production of opium. They supplied heroin to Europe and Russia for the destruction of the people, it was a new chemical warfare. Poor farmers in Afghanistan were forced to grow poppy. Therefore, instead of hemp or wheat, many farmers began to plant poppies to produce heroin as the demand increased and situation became more critical.
What actually changed the trends in Cannabis crops was really the same reason that changed the trends and ended with landrace diversity all over the world (Mexico, Colombia, Jamaica and so on). That was the need of producing more profitable crops and earning more money. So in order to get more hash and faster crops, farmers sowed the faster BLD (Cannabis indica ssp. indica) supspecies and started to hybridize those with their traditional NLD hash cultivars. Of course US erradication operations with paraquat and other defoliants as glyphosate had a big impact too, much bigger than any war.
But that was after the 70s big demand for hashish imports, this favored the broad leaf hashplants which were more productive and faster flowering. So this leaded into a change on the Cannabis cultivation trends all over the Hindu Kush (Afghanistan and Pakistan). Even given the inferior quality of hashish from the new cultivars, prices were similar to those from the good old golden era of hashish. This usually came from areas like Yarkand or the Chinese and Russian Turkestan, where this top hashish was traditionally produced with later flowering and NLD hashplants.
I'm sure both subspecies can still be found widely in Afghanistan... the only thing you need is go there and find the best farmers or most remote villages. But plants still grow there, both in the northern mountains around Bhalk, Mazari shariff or the southen areas like Kandahar, Hilmand and Farah.
The diversity of older and traditional cultivars was probably bigger in the 60-70s, just like everywhere else, but I'm sure you can still find top genetics there. Is more a matter of selection and refining in this case, as hashplants tend to have a broader genepool than ganja landraces.
On the other hand, we’ve seen lots interesting modern hashplant cultivars lately, for example all the Mazari Shariff, Shebergan or Chitral from RSC were top hashplants indeed.
Diversity trends on crops was studed by the UNODC Cannabis Afghanistan reports.
On the other hand it wasn't a Soviet war actually. The first Afghan war (78-92) was an US war against the USSR that took part within the Cold War perspective. This war took place through the hands of terrorists in Afghanistan. Money, weapons and training were supplied by the US to the mujahidin rebels who were fighting the afghan troops from the Afghan Democratic Republic, who had the support of the URSS. War or Soviet Union shouldn't have any influence on Cannabis species or its genetic evolution to be honest, it just makes no sense. But it's common American propaganda against Russia and widely used on the scene as a "primo seal" for Hindu Kush hashplants.
The CIA encouraged poppy cultivation and production of opium. They supplied heroin to Europe and Russia for the destruction of the people, it was a new chemical warfare. Poor farmers in Afghanistan were forced to grow poppy. Therefore, instead of hemp or wheat, many farmers began to plant poppies to produce heroin as the demand increased and situation became more critical.
What actually changed the trends in Cannabis crops was really the same reason that changed the trends and ended with landrace diversity all over the world (Mexico, Colombia, Jamaica and so on). That was the need of producing more profitable crops and earning more money. So in order to get more hash and faster crops, farmers sowed the faster BLD (Cannabis indica ssp. indica) supspecies and started to hybridize those with their traditional NLD hash cultivars. Of course US erradication operations with paraquat and other defoliants as glyphosate had a big impact too, much bigger than any war.
But that was after the 70s big demand for hashish imports, this favored the broad leaf hashplants which were more productive and faster flowering. So this leaded into a change on the Cannabis cultivation trends all over the Hindu Kush (Afghanistan and Pakistan). Even given the inferior quality of hashish from the new cultivars, prices were similar to those from the good old golden era of hashish. This usually came from areas like Yarkand or the Chinese and Russian Turkestan, where this top hashish was traditionally produced with later flowering and NLD hashplants.
I'm sure both subspecies can still be found widely in Afghanistan... the only thing you need is go there and find the best farmers or most remote villages. But plants still grow there, both in the northern mountains around Bhalk, Mazari shariff or the southen areas like Kandahar, Hilmand and Farah.
The diversity of older and traditional cultivars was probably bigger in the 60-70s, just like everywhere else, but I'm sure you can still find top genetics there. Is more a matter of selection and refining in this case, as hashplants tend to have a broader genepool than ganja landraces.
On the other hand, we’ve seen lots interesting modern hashplant cultivars lately, for example all the Mazari Shariff, Shebergan or Chitral from RSC were top hashplants indeed.
Diversity trends on crops was studed by the UNODC Cannabis Afghanistan reports.
Tom Hill's X18 is good example of this hybridization. If you guys can find the photos of his X18-open pollination grows, you can see some very sativa-leaning plants, while most are shorter BLD-types.
Here's my X18 male from TH
..very stretchy when lights go 12/12.
I have one TH X18 female that tastes very much like Manali jungli-charas i smoked in Adam with similar effect.Sso my guess is it's Manali, the sativa genetics in X18.
Howard Marks in his book 'Mr Nice' talks about buying hashish from Afghanistan to support the Mujahideen. He said the slabs of hash were even stamped with some or other pro mujahideen symbol! But I'm not sure if HM is a credible source?
If you you want to know more about American involvement in that war there is an excellent book 'Charlie Wilson's war' by George Crile. One thing that stands out for me was the CIA importing hundreds of Texan pack mules to transport supplies through the rugged mountains. CIA agents were only slightly perturbed when the mujahideen started fucking the mules as soon as they arrived!
If you you want to know more about American involvement in that war there is an excellent book 'Charlie Wilson's war' by George Crile. One thing that stands out for me was the CIA importing hundreds of Texan pack mules to transport supplies through the rugged mountains. CIA agents were only slightly perturbed when the mujahideen started fucking the mules as soon as they arrived!
Some of the so called "Mujahideen groups" can be very two-faced when it comes to rules and religion. Some are very orderly and diciplined ..some groups are just mercenaries, who just "play" jihadis. Some of them, as i type this, have sex with boys (bacha bazi) and sell you opium if you just show them the money ..prolly few of those little boys too, i'm sad to say. So religious and holy, ay.
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US actually started supporting the Mujahideen BEFORE Soviet invaded Afghanistan. Brzezinski and co knowingly provoked Soviets to invade, so that they could get justification for the proxy-war via the Mujahideen. Think this was mentioned in Robert Gate's book and in an interview by Brzezinski for a French TV/news paper ..you'll find the info using google.
This could also simply be the genetic diversity often shown by landraces... in fact, untamed landraces are supposed to show a lot of diversity indeed, that's what defines the term actually and the reason why they are so important for the future diversity and even for the plant breeder.
People are wrong if they expect pure landraces to be homogeneous and behave in a predictable way. They only become more homogeneous as they get far from their original and untamed "landrace status" if that makes any sense.
Anyway not all the pre-80s Hindu Kush hashplants were squat BLDs as the Deep Chunk and so on. In fact, traditional hashplants from the old Turkestan and Uzbeksitan, where the best hashish used to be found, were produced from "sativa" looking plants. More compact hashplants were only introduced later in order to bring more production and earlier harvest.
I remember some '78 Mazari pics in Humbold, plant was HUGE just like some of the biggest Aussie sativas lol!
But X18 seeds were originally picked out of Hashish in USA, or do i remember that wrong?
If so, it's not a landrace but a hash-cultivar.
If so, it's not a landrace but a hash-cultivar.
Well is anybody offering US occupation post 2001 Afghani genetics? Quite a few seeds must have come home with troops!
Weather report Afghanistan Sept. 12 2001: temperatures in the high 5000s Fahrenheit, mushroom clouds developing towards afternoon!
Weather report Afghanistan Sept. 12 2001: temperatures in the high 5000s Fahrenheit, mushroom clouds developing towards afternoon!
Soviets brought genetics back to russia , not to afghanistan , pre soviet is just smoke and mirrors to boost egos or sell stuff... pre hippy trail would be best .... pre72 lines
Truthful
Member
That guy (Sam) gets way too much credit for the modern era of cannabis genetics. The Pre Soviet label is only a gimmick to sell seeds so do your research before supporting any of these breeders the more of us supporting bs the more bs will be offered. Now that I've said that I'll add that I got a pack of those ISP Afghans, but only after seeing a couple grows and asking the growers how they honestly felt about them and people have been happy for the most and finding a few keepers in every pack. When I bought Skunk #1 and Afghani #1 they had to be the biggest disappointments, both were nothing like what I remembered from the 80s - 90s.
