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"Pre-Soviet" Afghani Question
- Thread starter Reign of Terror
- Start date
I had the impression that the US wanted to hook the soviets on heroin in the soviet invasion so a switch from hashish to opium was supported by there efforts, chemical warfare at its best.... I am amazed this thread has not talked at all about Kazakhstan hashish production in the lower part in the Chu valley( many translations mite not be proper spelling) it has been a secluded part that has many interactions with the stans as well as china, I never tried any pre-soviet hashish but I have met someone who went there in 71/72 at the time they sold three varieties (morning, day, evening) hashish and you could get it pressed in three different ways (hand, dry,water) to this day Iv been told nothing compares to the hashish from the chitral valley back then
designer
Member
Many folks are ready to say government conspiracy every time the wind blows. If you look throughout the history of mankind you will find millions of examples where governments or people in general just make foolish decisions. Sure there are some conspiracies (Watergate for example) but I do not think that any government entity ever wanted to hook the American public on heroin. The government depends on a tax base generated by the working public and heroin addicts are not helping that.
Arming the Mujadin was a mistake, however. The Capitalist and Communist /Marxist governments have been staging mock battles in poor counties since the 50s from Korea, Vietnam, Eastern Bloc, Africa, Nicaragua and other places. We or the Chinese or former Soviet Union do not want to fight toe to toe for the risk of a nuclear war breaking out and the loss of our good citizens to war and/or the possibility a lobby of folks would join the other side. Much easier to test our weapons and training, and spend money in a third country. Nobody wins that stuff. Arming the Mujadin in Afghanistan was one of those mock battles and a good chance to test our stinger missiles against the Soviets without getting our hands dirty. After the Soviets realized that they could not win that guerrilla fight and backed out the Mujadin felt blessed by God. They beat a super power shooting stingers off of the backs of camels. They began training others and creating a fundamentalist religious government that did not allow the use of drugs and alcohol.
Fast forward a few years and you have Majudin leader Osama Bin Laden. He attacked the trade center because his spoiled ass was deeply insulted when Saudi Arabia selected the USA to defend them against Iraq during Desert Storm. His rich ass feelings were hurt and he used his movement, clout and money to teach us a lesson.
The US has excellent intelligence and knew who he was and what he was doing (responsible for bombings in Somalia for instance). After the attacks of 9/11 the US took out the Taliban government and installed it's own. One that cannot fight drug use as effectively as the Taliban did, as we believe in democracy and due process (Taliban kills you the same day you are accused of a crime).
So what you have is opium/heroin production because it is more profitable than food crops (duh). The poppy are pretty easy plants to grow and no where near as large as the Marijuana they grow there. A series of bad decisions, not a conspiracy. It's been going on for 5000 years (that we can prove)
Arming the Mujadin was a mistake, however. The Capitalist and Communist /Marxist governments have been staging mock battles in poor counties since the 50s from Korea, Vietnam, Eastern Bloc, Africa, Nicaragua and other places. We or the Chinese or former Soviet Union do not want to fight toe to toe for the risk of a nuclear war breaking out and the loss of our good citizens to war and/or the possibility a lobby of folks would join the other side. Much easier to test our weapons and training, and spend money in a third country. Nobody wins that stuff. Arming the Mujadin in Afghanistan was one of those mock battles and a good chance to test our stinger missiles against the Soviets without getting our hands dirty. After the Soviets realized that they could not win that guerrilla fight and backed out the Mujadin felt blessed by God. They beat a super power shooting stingers off of the backs of camels. They began training others and creating a fundamentalist religious government that did not allow the use of drugs and alcohol.
Fast forward a few years and you have Majudin leader Osama Bin Laden. He attacked the trade center because his spoiled ass was deeply insulted when Saudi Arabia selected the USA to defend them against Iraq during Desert Storm. His rich ass feelings were hurt and he used his movement, clout and money to teach us a lesson.
The US has excellent intelligence and knew who he was and what he was doing (responsible for bombings in Somalia for instance). After the attacks of 9/11 the US took out the Taliban government and installed it's own. One that cannot fight drug use as effectively as the Taliban did, as we believe in democracy and due process (Taliban kills you the same day you are accused of a crime).
So what you have is opium/heroin production because it is more profitable than food crops (duh). The poppy are pretty easy plants to grow and no where near as large as the Marijuana they grow there. A series of bad decisions, not a conspiracy. It's been going on for 5000 years (that we can prove)
great read with a wealth of info. thx for sharing
Peace n love for refreshing this thread
Zamalito and Raco really lay a wealth of interesting info. down .. it is the stuff real cannabis culture is truly made of 
Please noteMujahideen = 'those that struggle'
OBL wasn't ever the 'head' of those peoples.
Hope this helps.
Pre-soviet,, then for any documentary evidence we need to look towards the colonial empires with the most vested interest in the Hindu Kush region at the time... Germany, Britain, and the Dutch. As much as the existing nations and people that still grow in the region today,,, Afghan, Indian, Pakistani, Uzbeck farmers,, who will hit ICMAG soon or later as cyberspace and access to telecommunications grows wider!!!
Portuguese missionaries from Goa also travelled north into the Hindu Kush region, 400yrs + back
What distinguishes the dope from the rope and the hashish from the animal feed is still the open question...
Portuguese missionaries from Goa also travelled north into the Hindu Kush region, 400yrs + back
What distinguishes the dope from the rope and the hashish from the animal feed is still the open question...
designer
Member
Peace n love for refreshing this thread
Mujahideen = 'those that struggle'
OBL wasn't ever the 'head' of those peoples.
Hope this helps.
He was a popular Colonel. A title he bought. He was loved because he was a rich Saudi that contributed money and it looked good that a rich boy would fight next to the peasants.
Please read this pre 9/11 book,,, it will help place the region into a much a clearer and truthful perspective
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Unexpected-Light-Travels-Afghanistan/dp/0330371622
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Unexpected-Light-Travels-Afghanistan/dp/0330371622
designer
Member
The National Geographic foundation created a 4 hour documentary called Inside 9/11. Many people across many borders respect National Geographic, as do I. If you have time you may want to look at it. It is not about weed or dope, but it does explain the politics in that region and the actions that occurred Prior to 9 11.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTtoHx-ia8A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdPk23j3_ek
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTtoHx-ia8A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdPk23j3_ek
designer are you trying to say that the US is in Afghanistan now to test there weapons out? I'm confused on what your trying to say but do you not feel the post cold war militarization in the US has not been strategic planning? or one of poorly planned endeavors that was just poor decision making? I have more faith that it was strategic planning since as you said the US has excellent intelligence as one would expect, yet I also believe there strategic planning is just as good
designer
Member
The USA has Excellent Intelligence, but the empire, bureaucracy, and the US Constitution do not allow us to act on it correctly. Look at my links above and then comment. They are both reliable links.
The USA didn't stage a mock battle in Afghanistan in 2001- present time. We did stage a mock battle during the soviet invasion though. The latest battle was a deliberate action to take out the Taliban fundamentalist government. In this objective we were successful. In the war on drugs we failed. Two conflicting objectives.
It has always been my belief that the super powers have to rattle their swords on foreign soil for safety. It is one thing to support a cause with some insignificant country and be able to pull out any time and quite another to start an invasion on another dangerous super power. Weapons need to be tested, people need to be trained and blood is a huge motivator in getting support for military budgets. You show a photo of a Mujadin shooting a Soviet Helicopter down with a stinger missile from the back of a camel and you have a huge propaganda tool for recruiting troops and tax dollar support. Throw in the fact that they commit human rights violations or mistreat females and you have support from normally liberal demographics.
designer
Member
I do not support the actions of my government, USA, I may add. I just have a very good and intimate understanding of how they operate. I am also a devout history buff covering the period that is considered history, the last 5000 years.
The CIA are dirty animals. I know some CIA agents. They use lies, bribery and any other means they can to get the information they need. What happens with the information has a lot to do with who is running the execute office at the time. Bill Clinton, a man I truly like, allowed OSB to live and commit the acts of 9/11 because he was busy fighting perjury charges resulting from a blow job. Bush acted on CIA intelligence and took control of Afghanistan.
Here is an example of our governments M.O.;
It is basically illegal for the USA to execute someone in a foreign country because of politics. We should have executed many people in history. However, you have Pablo Escabar the Colombian drug lord. He made billions smuggling cocaine into the USA in the 80s and could be held responsible for thousands of deaths. Once he got a seat in the Colombian congress the Colombian government decided to cooperate with the USA in taking him out. Since it is illegal for the USA to assassinate him, we used CIA intelligence to locate him, bribed people to assist, armed the bribed individual and they killed him. There is a photo of the people responsible for killing Pablo, but no Americans in the photo.
The CIA are dirty animals. I know some CIA agents. They use lies, bribery and any other means they can to get the information they need. What happens with the information has a lot to do with who is running the execute office at the time. Bill Clinton, a man I truly like, allowed OSB to live and commit the acts of 9/11 because he was busy fighting perjury charges resulting from a blow job. Bush acted on CIA intelligence and took control of Afghanistan.
Here is an example of our governments M.O.;
It is basically illegal for the USA to execute someone in a foreign country because of politics. We should have executed many people in history. However, you have Pablo Escabar the Colombian drug lord. He made billions smuggling cocaine into the USA in the 80s and could be held responsible for thousands of deaths. Once he got a seat in the Colombian congress the Colombian government decided to cooperate with the USA in taking him out. Since it is illegal for the USA to assassinate him, we used CIA intelligence to locate him, bribed people to assist, armed the bribed individual and they killed him. There is a photo of the people responsible for killing Pablo, but no Americans in the photo.
SacredTHCRitual
Member
ladies and gents
this is the holy grail and will help with many of your questions
Afghanistan cannabis survey 2009 - UNODC
http://www.unodc.org/documents/crop-monitoring/Afghanistan/Afghanistan_Cannabis_Survey_2009.pdf -- 3.77mb
pages and pages of useful information regarding specific regions and land race strain names...
If we are going to talk about Indica and land race we need to find the people that actually go out and produce quality research. That's the only way you are going to push through all the clutter of misinformation.
enjoy
+++
this is the holy grail and will help with many of your questions
Afghanistan cannabis survey 2009 - UNODC
http://www.unodc.org/documents/crop-monitoring/Afghanistan/Afghanistan_Cannabis_Survey_2009.pdf -- 3.77mb
pages and pages of useful information regarding specific regions and land race strain names...
If we are going to talk about Indica and land race we need to find the people that actually go out and produce quality research. That's the only way you are going to push through all the clutter of misinformation.
enjoy
+++
designer
Member
I only come to this thread because Doc Leaf link us from the Created Kush thread. I have generally always preferred the Sativas of tropics, but this thread is so interesting historically. Thanks all for that have contributed and thanks for the link, Doc. I may not agree with everything you say or your views, but you are an important figure on this site.
vaped
Active member
I wrote about this in another thread also. Some seed came from travelers who followed the has trail in the 60's. Most of the afghan genetic came to america via the CIA. The CIA allowed Afghans to bring hash and marijuana into the u.s. to help pay for the weapons we gave them. These seeds were some of the first seeds that would flower well in the harsh northern U.S. When the term pre soviet afghan pops up I think they really mean from the time the soviets were there.
SacredTHCRitual
Member
sure we here about the most common Mazari i shariff
but what about the Watani?
the Machalghu Shandani?
the Sabz Bang?
the Zaraki Shadani?
the Logari Shadani?
the Sreh chars?
the Surkabi Shadani ?
the Bangi Hirati ?
the rare Kandahari, the Spera Botay, and the Chaghali tokhom??
the information is all a haze by the time it hits the washing machine that is the internet
it would be nice to have specific regions with pictures of plants and seeds
with so many different countries in Afghanistan right now...I see pictures of weed fields make it out all the time..why so hard to document these things?
but what about the Watani?
the Machalghu Shandani?
the Sabz Bang?
the Zaraki Shadani?
the Logari Shadani?
the Sreh chars?
the Surkabi Shadani ?
the Bangi Hirati ?
the rare Kandahari, the Spera Botay, and the Chaghali tokhom??
the information is all a haze by the time it hits the washing machine that is the internet
it would be nice to have specific regions with pictures of plants and seeds
with so many different countries in Afghanistan right now...I see pictures of weed fields make it out all the time..why so hard to document these things?
incredibly amazing report!
thanks sacredthcritual
thanks sacredthcritual
