Got pinched out of your own thread?Luckily for you ignorance is bliss my friend, carry on
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POWDERY MILDEW SOLUTION HERE!!
- Thread starter Team Microbe
- Start date
C
CaliGabe
I looked at DEM and nothing unique IMO. Seems like a 'me too' product line. Veganic? I'm not a fan.
As for Eagle 20 I did get some clones direct from Krunchbubble in another life along with some Eagle 20. I sprayed when PM popped up and came back about 30 days later. The enviro was horrible though and was bottle feeding in that grow. Sweet Pink Grapefruit...never got around to flowering.
In some ways this thread not much different than the gazillion other PM threads.
@Team Microbe...I saw in another thread you're using REv's TLO program? Is that what you're using and still getting PM? That speaks volume for his program. Oh and BTW a few years back I would spend weekends with him at least once a month for a year. I will say I smoked a LOT of his herb and some of the best I've had
. Still though he's never tested anything except water and probably never will.Kempf is not about products except as supplements...for the most part. He's more about starting with a balanced soil which requires certain inputs.
Ahh the holy grail of PM prevention: a healthy plant!
Gaius, maybe if we pull a few abstract concepts together--there might be a path to your destination.
First abstract point/fact--plants are adept at altering their physiology and metabolism in response to prior experience and can retain this memory for future genetic imprinting. From a study titled, "Stressful “memories” of plants: Evidence and possible mechanisms" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168945207002476--(full text in attached pdf) concluded--
"Exposure to low levels of certain volatile compounds can
elicit stress responses in plants. These elicitors can thus be
surrogates and allow the formation of ‘‘stress imprints’’ even in
the absence of exposure to real stress. Beneficial organisms
such as mycorrhizal fungi can also switch on plant stress
response genes. Furthermore, internal signalling within the
plant can occur. A particularly intriguing possibility is that
siRNAs, which have been shown to induce epigenetic changes
through RNA-dependent DNA methylation (RdDM) and related
chromatin modifications [50], could function as
systemically transported priming signals by causing specific
epigenetic modifications. Better information on plant stress
imprinting and associated signalling would facilitate the
development of priming treatments for crops to enhance yields
under conditions of stress. If we could discover how to use
priming or stress imprinting processes to switch on genes we
could manipulate expression of plant defence genes such as (E)-
b-farnesene synthase [51,52]. Conversely, under conditions
where stress is absent, alterations in plant physiology imprinted
by previous stress events could compromise aspects of plant
productivity, for example by down-regulation of photosynthesis."
Second abstract point/fact--the plant's adaptive biochemical change (response) is stored within the plant...and, certain changes are passed to successive generations (clones/seeds). Many believe (not me) that clones of mothers and clones of a clone, of a clone, of a clone--etc., are identical and will always remain genetically pure. As growers, we respond to the plants needs with pesticides, remedies and magic potions to trick the plant to activate its Systemic Acquired Resistance (SAR)....which sometimes is passed to future generations of clones/seeds. So, if SAR attributes can be passed to successive generations--what other things are also inherited by clones/seeds? Hmmm, no "genetic purity" here.
These handful of abstracts examine how SAR effects subsequent generations (they are easy reading)--
Next-generation systemic acquired resistance--http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22147520
Herbivory in the previous generation primes plants for enhanced insect resistance--http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22209873
Descendants of primed Arabidopsis plants exhibit resistance to biotic stress--http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22209872
Now...I am a simple guy living in this complex world, but it seems logical to me that--if a mother was treated with a powerful fungicide (say Eagle20) that eradicated PM, then is it possible with the right biochemical inputs--that over time, successive generations will be healthier (PM free) than the original mama? Or said differently--is it possible there is some sort of priming or stress imprinting process that can cause future generations to be "different" in a good way?
I do know this...I had a particular strain that was prone to PM, but when the mother was treated with Eagle20, there was a significant reduction of PM issues with her clones. A second treatment (about six months later) seemed to do the trick--maybe it was coincidental or maybe the SAR induced by the myclobutanil treatment actually did pass to successive generations...don't know, but I do know this...I never had PM from the particular strain again.
Maybe someone smarter than me can lead us down the "yellow brick road"...but if plants have memories, then it seems logical to me they also would have both "good" and "bad" memories to pass to successive generations. Therefore why couldn't a "PM mom" later become a healthy "non-PM mom", and then produce "PM-free" offspring?
Something to ponder over a fatty perhaps....
Cheers!
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Two can play that game
http://pnwhandbooks.org/plantdisease/pesticide-articles/fungicides-disease-control-home-landscape
Fungus will adapt faster...
I believe the oil adds an extra layer of defense with keeping spores at bay giving that the oil is heavy and will create a layer that would make it more difficult for the spores to thrive.Why the two (soap, oil)? I'd would think you only need one or the other to make the baking soda stick? I do like the shine the oil,soap gives the leaves
420247...and your point is?
Plant's don't remember?
Or successive generations don't obtain memories?
Or fungus learns/adapts faster than plants?
Or pesticide/insecticide/fungicide resistance trumps all?
Or are you saying I "overused" Eagle20 when I treated the mama with two treatments, 6 months apart.
Not sure what your "game is".
Plant's don't remember?
Or successive generations don't obtain memories?
Or fungus learns/adapts faster than plants?
Or pesticide/insecticide/fungicide resistance trumps all?
Or are you saying I "overused" Eagle20 when I treated the mama with two treatments, 6 months apart.
Not sure what your "game is".
very interesting ideas about the plants acquiring new genetic memories, i totally believe you that the e20 did the trick in a final way, i have read too many testimonials to that to doubt it. but is there a peaceful way to achieve the same thing? whats the story with the brix levels? didnt i dead some where that if your plants sap ph is at 7.0 your plants will be immune from all pest and molds? was reading a thread for a bit where this was talked about. the main issue seemed to be spraying the leaves with chalk to up the ph and something else to lower the ph of the plant sap.
Life sure is amazing!
Life sure is amazing!
Fungus is amazing, and for every cause there is a reaction.
It's a fallback option if there is no hope... And in some cases not an option (gaiusmarius).
My game is, this is an amazing plant and pm is only a small obstacle.
How did these plants make it on earth for so long without our help?
Life sure is amazing!
Fungus is amazing, and for every cause there is a reaction.
It's a fallback option if there is no hope... And in some cases not an option (gaiusmarius).
My game is, this is an amazing plant and pm is only a small obstacle.
How did these plants make it on earth for so long without our help?
cray posted about that in the organic soil forum... Was interesting
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=252843
Agree...but let's forget the ingredients Eagle20/raw milk/Serenade/essential oils--rather let's play with the process. Assuming one obtains PM annihilation, which in turn allows the cultivator to treat the unhealthy plant...that eventually becomes "super-healthy". Can plants learn? How many generations does the trait pass to cuttings/clones? Same for seeds? Finding the right solution is always achievable--it just may take more time, money and/or labor. BTW, had great results using Raw Milk with other fungicides--1+2=4.20
IMHO, high brix, high calcium, high CEC, high pH soils/sap...yep they all seem to be the result of various symbiotic relationships: Healthy soil, healthy microherd, healthy genetics, healthy yields--they do seem to go hand in hand. But damn near impossible if you are fighting a fungus...your plant is not healthy.
BTW, healthy levels of silica (a beneficial element) seems to be another common thread in the tapestry of "what constitutes a healthy plant?". Beneficial elements?--the attached pdf is 2009 reprint from the pub, "Current Opinions in Plant Biology" discusses the benefits aluminum (Al), cobalt (Co), sodium (Na), selenium (Se), and silicon (Si) have on plants (at low doses of course...BTW, the highlights in the Si section are from a researcher that used this paper as one of her sources--not my doing.)
Lots we don't know about one of the oldest jobs in the planet--farming!
BTW, tree orchards have been known to include kaolin clay in their foliar sprays--for its fungicide properties, and (sounds crazy) but it also increases transpiration in the leaf. So the chalk thing might have some merit....did not try kaolin clay though.
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Fungus is amazing, and for every cause there is a reaction.
It's a fallback option if there is no hope... And in some cases not an option (gaiusmarius).
My game is, this is an amazing plant and pm is only a small obstacle.
How did these plants make it on earth for so long without our help?
It has been stated earlier that PM spores are everywhere--it is in our growing environments & sick plants seem to allow PM spores to "take root & thrive" more so than healthy ones. Also, certain genetics/strains are more prone than others (probably bad breeding).
I am blessed to have zero PM issues (actually have no issues at all right now--save the constant Fungus Gnat hassle...as my next door neighbor overwaters her patio plants, which is the source of my Gnats). But when I did, and trying to abide by the organics/biodynamics religon/philosophy of using only organic products to combat PM...I was spraying 2-3 times a week (3-4 hours beginning to end for each spray) and it was killing me--as not every concoction was effective unless it was part of a rotation of many, many foliar sprays (boring!). So, I elected to go on the dark side (Eagle20)--for the total PM annihilation--and rebuild my plants using "the best practices from all growing disciplines--ignoring what did not make sense" (best thing I ever did!).
I have not used Eagle20 in years...but should the occasion arise and my garden is visited by the PM Fairy--she won't be around long. That said, I can bore you to tears with details of each and every concoction known to man--including combinations thereof--that claimed to get rid of PM without the use of synthetics/chems. Most can control it and prevent re-occurance for a few weeks--and certain routines/procedures work better than some, but for annihilation I will go with what several vineyard/winemakers told me: Eagle20 one maybe two times and no mas.
Not saying bacteria or minerals can control PM...just saying that is all it can do, "control"--not annihilate.
No hard feelings--but been there and done that.
Cheers!
No hard feelings in any way
I am sorry you felt you had to turn to a last resort I have never seen anybody else who has posted pictures of cannabis plants growing (late flowering, not sprayed by any fungicide) next to weeds with very clear signs of powdery mildew only inches away (like I did on page 4), and the cannabis plants do not show signs of fruiting mycelium! And if we want to say the cannabis has powdery mildew mycelium just not fruiting yet, then why would it be fruiting everywhere else other than on my cannabis plants?
One of the things that makes me love growing more and more is always learning! From my mistakes, other peoples mistakes, or just sitting there and observing!!! I love it!!!!
LOL
No hard feelings in any way
Actually I went to the "dark-side" after re-evaluating my growing philosophy. A trifecta of issues/problems was beating me up all at the same time--I went from "hobby gardener" to "farmer"....I was fighting Root Aphids & Fungus Gnats (they seem to go hand-in-hand) and every non-synthetic/chem concoction did nothing but "control"...nothing really did "100% annihilation"...and I had this problematic/fussy pussy strain that was prone to PM--but blessed me with "$uper big ticket$".
I was a farmer with many plants that had Root Aphids requiring dunks every 2 weeks, while the plants in both veg and flower had PM issues requiring full coverage foliar sprays 2-3 times a week, and then Fungus Gnats were insulting me by crunching away on dead roots caused by RAs...I basically said WTF, and re-evaluated my growing philosophy. After studied ALL the popular growing disciplines, I then selected "the best practices" and ended up with a blend of: organic, biodynamic, commercial (synthetic/chem), newer and sometimes "unaccepted" techniques/methods/ingredients, stoner logic, and bro science--something I call "fusion growing".
Depending on how you measure my "non-organic" inputs, I am about 90-98% organic/biodynamic. It's that 2-10% "non-organic" that saves me 5-20 hours a week by not having to drench/dunk/spray the "organic way", it also saves me $$$ if certain "organic" inputs/product are replaced with a less costly "non-organic" alternative, and then certain enhancers/hardeners/boosters are "non-organic"...but increase quality/quantity/potency of the harvest.
No reason to be or feel "sorry" for going on the "dark side"--rather the alignment of the trifecta of problems made me look at this particular aspect of my life through a different looking glass...then I realized--I could accomplish more if I remove the "organic chains of bondage" and when I problem solve--to include in the the universe of solutions things that lack "organic approval"...and ALL THE WHILE, stay true to my organic/biodynamic roots....sort of like a practicing Catholic that uses birth control.
Cheers!
i used to be on weedtracker when the homepage was the seals of the most liberal 215 counties in the state.
I even won a bman sift box at a raffle they had at some weed expo in sf back in 06' or so,
I even won a bman sift box at a raffle they had at some weed expo in sf back in 06' or so,
I loved the MnG's!!! I am in So Cal and went to the ones down here. The last one I went to was the big one in some warehouse near Soto St. with the open hash bar and WAY to loud of music lol
I always loved bringing cuttings for the raffles... I got alot of people to start growing because of that...
I loved talking with 666!!!! What an amazing person!!! RIP
I loved how the face to face meeting would usually kill the long winded back and forth shit like what we see in this thread lol
C
CaliGabe
A few years back I went back and forth with someone and finally sent him a PM and told him call me or STFU. He did and now I'm living with him and his family in COI loved how the face to face meeting would usually kill the long winded back and forth shit like what we see in this thread lol
. Turned out to be a good friend.He's had a BAD PM problem outdoors and first chore was to weed out some weak genetics and gonna focus on a quality nutrient program based on AEA's stuff starting with a good soil blend.
