Pollination of Femmed Plants

[Deleted member 534625]

Reversals are a pain, but I have never seen any evidence that males are required in a breeding program. The evidence strikes the other way - female genes demonstrably carry everything we value in the plant, whether or not they have a male parent.

For males to matter, they must carry invisible genes that act in females, over generations, as some kind of protective but unmeasurable influence. How would that work? What known genetic mechanisms could underlie it?

Don’t get me wrong - as with any breeding strategy, there are more than enough ways to fail. But, the clear advantages from a genetic and selection point of view mean that selfing will continue to be a major tool for most breeders.

Honestly mate,

I’m not sure where you’re gathering your information but I could not disagree more. Males have always been necessary for truly sexually stable lines, and is a central cornerstone of 100s of years of horticulture practices. They are not “invisible genes,” most people are just to lazy to grow the males out to fruition, and get frustrated with the process.

If your referring to the last 10 years worth of cookie cuts as empirical evidence of not needing good dads in the mix, then I’m sorry but your part of the problem with modern breeding.

 

[Graewulf]

I'm just sitting here with my morning 'joe and my mind started wandering.. reversing and feminizing is monkeying around with Mother Nature's playbook. I wondered if this screwing around would introduce some type of weird mutations or increased possibility of hermaphroditism.

The only dumb question is the question that goes unasked.

According to Dr Soul they at brothers grimm beat the crap out of all feminizing plant to force seeds/plants to hermie the ones they can’t make hermie are the ones that pass the test to become available feminized seeds. It was on a YouTube video

 

[numberguy]

cannabis expresses intersex normally, a plot of cannabis outdoors is going to have a number of male flowers on the females
and there will be (some)feminized seeds, that's normal for cannabis

This is not true in my experience. I feel sorry if this has been your experience.

 

[numberguy]

I have no issues with fem plants, but when you get seeds from them and plant those seeds, to me those are herm'y plants, no longer feminized just run of the mill hermy's. How are you going to fix hermy lines or varietals if you can no longer find true males? The bro science that males do not contribute anything usefull is detrimental to breeding. I am not sure why it was perpetuated by some who should have known better.

 

[igrowone]

This is not true in my experience. I feel sorry if this has been your experience.

not my experience
this comes from many studies on hemp
quite a labor looking through outdoor plants for stealthy herms
but it has been done for hemp fiber and seed
which is low thc cannabis, it is thought this also holds for high thc cannabis

 

[HarleyJammer]

I have no issues with fem plants, but when you get seeds from them and plant those seeds, to me those are herm'y plants, no longer feminized just run of the mill hermy's. How are you going to fix hermy lines or varietals if you can no longer find true males? The bro science that males do not contribute anything usefull is detrimental to breeding. I am not sure why it was perpetuated by some who should have known better.

So you would suggest I ixnay the idea of using a plant from fem seed as the mother progenitor and look for an unadulterated female?

 

[coconutcurry]

See, what is bringing me to the (serious) question is that I have a Thai A5 Haze (fem) that I am growing fond of. I'd like to hit her with some Kona Gold IBL dust. I was just wondering if there will be some bizarre things happening in the future.

I had the same question and there are different information on the web, so I just tried, and no, the crosses I made with feminized seeds produced no hermies and no mutations.

Funny thing: I grew many different crosses this time and I had hermies. I had plants that builded bananas, but not the crosses I made with feminized seeds. lol
There were Acapulco Gold (fem) x Laughing Buddha (reg) and Delahze (fem) x own polyhybrid (reg) and this plants had NO bananas. But other plants had some and I found the reason. Stupid little me used an old HPS bulb and it started flickering. When I can SEE this, than the bulb was already flickering for a long while and it seems the plants didn't like it. After changing the bulb, light was visable different.
I know a part of the genetic and there were no hermies before. The genetic is not the reason. I grew it before without hermies and all other conditions are the same. I'm sure it is was the old flickering bulb. Mainly the Laughing Buddha F2 I still grow right now hermaphrodited.

So, the crosses I made with feminized seeds were astonishingly stabel, but this is just for my own stash and not commercial. But getting hermies can have many different reasons.

I hope I will even profit from my own faults: When the plants built bananas and pollinate themselfes, than this is 'selfing'. The seeds I get, should all be feminized and an exact copie of the mother which pollinated itself - as far as I undestand this issue right. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Usually one spray the plants with any silver chemicals to make them bulding male flowers, but it seems flickering bulbs can do the same. lol

 

[igrowone]

I had the same question and there are different information on the web, so I just tried, and no, the crosses I made with feminized seeds produced no hermies and no mutatations.

Funny thing: I grew many different crosses this time and I had hermies. I had plants that builded bananas, but not the crosses I made with feminized seeds. lol
There were Acapulco Gold (fem) x Laughing Buddha (reg) and Delahze (fem) x own polyhybrid (reg) and this plants had NO bananas. But other plants had some and I found the reason. Stupid little me used an old HPS bulb and it started flickering. When I can SEE this, than the bulb was already flickering for a long while and it seems the plants didn't like it. After changing the bulb, light was visable different.
I know a part of the genetic and there were no hermies before. The genetic is not the reason. I grew it before without hermies and all other conditions are the same. I'm sure it is was the old flickering bulb. Mainly the Laughing Buddha F2 I still grow right now hermaphrodited.

So, the crosses I made with feminized seeds were astonishingly stabel, but this is just for my own stash and not commercial. But getting hermies can have many different reasons.

I hope I will even profit from my own faults: When the plants built bananas and pollinate themselfes, than this is 'selfing'. The seeds I get, should all be feminized and an exact copie of the mother which pollinated itself - as far as I undestand this issue right. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Usually one spray the plants with any silver chemicals to make them bulding male flowers, but it seems flickering bulbs can do the same. lol

probably not close copies, but still could be good plants

 

[coconutcurry]

I will try next grow. Usually I make any experiment with just one or two plants.and see what will happen. This will be my next experiment. I can tell you more in one or two years.

 

[zif]

Honestly mate,

I’m not sure where you’re gathering your information but I could not disagree more. Males have always been necessary for truly sexually stable lines, and is a central cornerstone of 100s of years of horticulture practices. They are not “invisible genes,” most people are just to lazy to grow the males out to fruition, and get frustrated with the process.

If you’re referring to the last 10 years worth of cookie cuts as empirical evidence of not needing good dads in the mix, then I’m sorry but you’re part of the problem with modern breeding.

I’m involved in horticultural plant breeding. Sexual stability is rarely a concern - the majority of horticultural species of interest aren’t dioecious!

We’re lucky Cannabis can be reversed. It allows inbreeding to proceed much more rapidly than it could otherwise. That, and its ease of cloning, are real assets.

If you can’t articulate a genetic mechanism, what can I say?

 

[Deleted member 534625]

I’m involved in horticultural plant breeding. Sexual stability is rarely a concern - the majority of horticultural species of interest aren’t dioecious!

We’re lucky Cannabis can be reversed. It allows inbreeding to proceed much more rapidly than it could otherwise. That, and its ease of cloning, are real assets.

If you can’t articulate a genetic mechanism, what can I say?

If the basis of your answer is; “Im involved in plant breeding and-horticulture, trust me,” you have failed to provided any basis for your individual reasoning. I stated a simple premise relating to the topic, and your response was to overly patronize me in a-self aggrandizing manner as if you’re a bloody expert on the topic. @zif
If you want to be defensive about your qualifications then go ahead. Maybe my: “then your part of the problem,” set you off for being defensive. It was meant to be a light hearted jest but context is tough over text.

I can agree that it’s lucky that some stuff can be saved using sex reversals but I just can’t get behind the practice myself for normal breeding.