PLL Club. (if you don't know, now you know)

[City Twin]

Thanx 2000pm. Budgets must be met.

 

[Cabinet Ninja]

If anyone in the UK/Europe is having trouble finding the 2g11 sockets then there are 2 options for you!

1: 2g11 sockets for £2.50/pop from lampspec
2: Terminal blocks. They're £1 for 10 or so on ebay. Bear in mind you need 4/bulb!

Hope this helps some foolks out.

 

[Vaporvon]

My custom PLL reflector. I used aluminum sheet material and bent it to shape for the reflector (a rough approximation of the AH Supply reflectors). I wanted to bend it to a more efficient shape, but it was just too difficult to bend the aluminum.

The thinner aluminum was then mounted to a thicker piece for support. Bulbs are held in place by galvanized steel wire. I enclosed the ballast and led driver behind another piece of bent aluminum mounted to the back of the cab. I left a flat spot to mount 6 deep red leds to round out the spectrum for flower.

For veg, I'm using two 3-6-10 bulbs and one blue bulb (400-500nm) from AH supply. I'll switch out the blue one with a 2700K for flower.

View my grow log here:

http://forum.grasscity.com/indoor-grow-journals/1205338-first-grow-plls-self-wicking-smart-pots.html

 

[McNerdius]

Alright mofos let's get this thing back up and running. i'm a n00b to this forum and PLLs, but not to growing. I'd give a deeper weed-bio but that'll have to wait as i have something like 10 mins... got a bus to catch. I just wanted to throw this in here as sort of a minipost/bump. Had been digging for ideal lighting for my new grow (full diy) cabinet, and thankfully i found it. I'll go into that later but DAMN is this shit perfect for every aspect of my situation.
(i've read the whole thread fwiw... good shit!)

Anyhoo i'll drop a few questions in here for y'all to chew on:

1) Have PLLs been "overtaken" by LED or some other tech, be it cost, efficiency, or otherwise ? I ask because this thread seems to have slowed down, not much talk elsewhere, etc.
2) Would a Workhorse ballast run different wattage bulbs simultaneously ? like, both a 36 and a 55 wired to same ballast
3) AH sells 24watt power compacts. I cant find the post right now, but i think i remember reading that 24w or lower wattages aren't the 2g11... Is that the case ? (I'm hoping to (eventually) run a 55w and 2*24w as part of my setup. (more on that l8r...)) Gonna call AH come time and see if i can get a 2*24 kit - i read someone bought exactly that from them somewhere near page 20 lol.


ok i gotta split thanks in advance !!! PLL FTW.
-McNerd

 

[Cabinet Ninja]

My custom PLL reflector.

Same sort of thing I did to make mine. I mounted my ballast outside of my cabinet to help reduce heat.

1) Have PLLs been "overtaken" by LED or some other tech?

- Simple answer: No

2) Would a Workhorse ballast run different wattage bulbs simultaneously ? like, both a 36 and a 55 wired to same ballast

- NO. The 36w bulb will receive 55w and almost certainly blow. Extreme fire hazard.


3) AH sells 24watt power compacts. I cant find the post right now, but i think i remember reading that 24w or lower wattages aren't the 2g11... Is that the case ?

- You'd save money by just buying the ballast/bulbs separately and making your own reflector. Following a circuit diagram and bending some aluminium is easy work, don't pay a 3rd party to do it for you!

-McNerd

PL-L FTW indeed!

Check out my sig to have a peek at my PL-L stealth cabinets.

 

[Claude Hopper]

Nice DIY reflector, Cabinet Ninja.

I've read the whole thread now and I'm giving this a try for my closet grow. Great read.

I swear, I have spent the week price shopping ballasts. I finally ordered a Phillips Advance Centium for 4 55 watt lamps.

I'll be running the lamps in cool tubes on the sides of my 180 watt LED ( 2.5' x 2.5' closet)

 

[2000pm]

Alright mofos let's get this thing back up and running. i'm a n00b to this forum and PLLs, but not to growing. I'd give a deeper weed-bio but that'll have to wait as i have something like 10 mins... got a bus to catch. I just wanted to throw this in here as sort of a minipost/bump. Had been digging for ideal lighting for my new grow (full diy) cabinet, and thankfully i found it. I'll go into that later but DAMN is this shit perfect for every aspect of my situation.
(i've read the whole thread fwiw... good shit!)

Anyhoo i'll drop a few questions in here for y'all to chew on:

1) Have PLLs been "overtaken" by LED or some other tech, be it cost, efficiency, or otherwise ? I ask because this thread seems to have slowed down, not much talk elsewhere, etc.
2) Would a Workhorse ballast run different wattage bulbs simultaneously ? like, both a 36 and a 55 wired to same ballast
3) AH sells 24watt power compacts. I cant find the post right now, but i think i remember reading that 24w or lower wattages aren't the 2g11... Is that the case ? (I'm hoping to (eventually) run a 55w and 2*24w as part of my setup. (more on that l8r...)) Gonna call AH come time and see if i can get a 2*24 kit - i read someone bought exactly that from them somewhere near page 20 lol.


ok i gotta split thanks in advance !!! PLL FTW.
-McNerd

To answer a couple of these, there certainly are lower-wattage 2g11s. I am using 18w for my mother cab right now in fact.

Read rives' thread on his hybrid fixture, and you will see this quote:

No, I wouldn't. Using a higher technology solution when a more effective, cheaper solution exists doesn't make sense to me - I am trying to optimize the spectrum for the plants, not simply use led's for the sake of using leds.

Just a quick look shows that mid-bin warm-white XP-G's mounted on MCPCB run @ $5 each in the quantities needed to replace those 4 PL-L's. It would take around 35 of the XP-G's running at 600ma (almost 2 watts) to generate the same light as one PL-L, and the XP-Gs (mid-level bin) are still only putting out about 83% of the lumens per watt that the PL-L's do. So....approximately $1500 for (4) led bars by the time you get drivers, sinks, fans, and misc. parts, only to pull more power than $175 for the PL-L's. Additionally, I don't know how well the 115 degree lensing of the XP-G's would work with the 170 degree lenses on the GD+'s.

It would take a hell of a long time for the longer life of the led's to make up for almost 9x the initial cost and higher power consumption! I think this all makes sense - I'm still groggy from no sleep last night.

Assumptions - 55w PL-L's make @ 4200 mean lumens. Mid-bin XP-G's make @ 87 lumens per watt @ 350ma, and about 121 at 600ma. 600ma x 3.2v = 1.92 watts. 4200 lumens/121=35 leds to replace (1) PL-L lamp.

How this plays out with newer diodes like the XM-Ls and such I don't know the math to but it is still hard to match the cost of the PLL right now. I am really enjoying using my hybrid fixture and the corresponding full spectrum with both types of lighting involved.

 

[Mr Jay]

I love my Pl-l lamps but measuring them to led lumen for lumen is a completely inaccurate way of measurement. Leds have power in PAR output, not just blazing lumens. So if you get the right light, it will blow away pl-l in PAR watt for watt.

 

[McNerdius]

apologies in advance, i suck at making short posts sometimes.

Thanks for the input cabinet ninja! DIY is nearly always the only way i do things. I'll throw some pics of my cab up as soon as i can - this next week is pretty nuts for me though. The wiring/assembly/etc isn't intimidating, nor is the reflector really. [hobby electronics/robotics keeps me busy during lights-out.] It's hard to sum up why i've been leaning toward the AH setup, really. Part of it is the one-stop shopping - which i know can be a blah reason, but what can i say, i'm happy to spoil myself right now. (see below) Granted, i haven't done a lot of digging outside of learning the aluminum isn't available locally, and that a workhorse 7 is $52 shipped from 1000bulbs. (if going diy i would start with a ballast capable of running 3*55w (4*50w/WH8 isn't an option - space).

I'm not a carpenter, but i managed to build the cabinet, save for the carbon filter, independently to fit the dimensions i wanted. It's a 39" wide, 18" deep, and 48" tall, dual-10-gallon dwc scrog. One of the reasons i'm fine spoiling myself by going with AH ? I can't drive, and i don't have any friends here yet... That means i had to walk all of the wood home. 2' by 4' panels, a bundle 8 foot 2*2s, and similar, over a mile. Many trips. In that way, it's not at all an "assembling a pll fixture is hard and i dont wanna" kinda thing, just a reward really. Beyond the initial fixture though, lighting upgrades/additions would by DIY.
The plan is 2*55w initially, add another 55w, then add 2*24watt if i feel the need.

It's good to know i'm not missing out on something else... i had to ask because i've never stumbled across these wonderful doohickeys, despite years of on-and-off growing. Probably because of that blanket 'flourescent is crap' type attitude. (mind you i've used my share of cfls) During this last "off" period of non-growing (moved to CO yay) i was lusting after CMH, but that was before i was able to evaluate my apartment, cabinet location/size/etc type stuff. a onesie HID would have to be piss poor compared to t5/pll for the cab's dimensions. Running dual lower-wattage HID could be workable, but the advantages of pll just slaughter all such thoughts.

OK really this time i'm gonna stfu now... ramble city

 

[rives]

I love my Pl-l lamps but measuring them to led lumen for lumen is a completely inaccurate way of measurement. Leds have power in PAR output, not just blazing lumens. So if you get the right light, it will blow away pl-l in PAR watt for watt.

You'd better define "blow away". I've used a variety of LEDs, from a Lumigrow ES330 to my DIY efforts, and yes, they have outperformed the PL-L's. Running the same strain, I picked up about 30% yield with pretty equivalent wattage LEDs, but considering that the first time I ran the strain was with the PL-L fixture, in a new setup and running a scrog for the first time, it isn't really a fair comparison. I'll have to re-run it one of these days just to see how it really stacks up. However, any of the LED fixtures were an easy $1000 more than the PL-L fixture that I built.

 

[brotherjericho]

2) Would a Workhorse ballast run different wattage bulbs simultaneously ? like, both a 36 and a 55 wired to same ballast

Actually, Cabinet Ninja is working off of older knowledge, probably thinking of older magnetic ballasts that were designed for certain bulb sizes/wattages. A Workhorse ballast will run mixed bulbs, I do it now. I can hook up a wattage meter to my Workhorse 8, add or subtract a bulb that is 24w or 36w or 40w when two 55w bulbs are still running and the wattage will change accordingly. With the two 55w bulbs, wattage reads ~111-112w, add a 36w and it runs ~147-148w. It would be better to keep them all the same wattage, but the technology is already built in to detect the difference.

 

[DZLHIT]

These are all 55watt

3000k



10,000 / actinic : 50/50



Flowered some decent buds with the 3000k's, kind of airy though and it was a micro sog. I have retired these to vegging, which they are amazing at.

 

[Mr Jay]

You'd better define "blow away". I've used a variety of LEDs, from a Lumigrow ES330 to my DIY efforts, and yes, they have outperformed the PL-L's. Running the same strain, I picked up about 30% yield with pretty equivalent wattage LEDs, but considering that the first time I ran the strain was with the PL-L fixture, in a new setup and running a scrog for the first time, it isn't really a fair comparison. I'll have to re-run it one of these days just to see how it really stacks up. However, any of the LED fixtures were an easy $1000 more than the PL-L fixture that I built.

Blow away - Frost covered rock hard nugs that were god damn amazing. Ran the same strains under both pl-l and LED and there was no comparison. The penetration on the LED was far superior to the PL-L and so I get to grow larger plants.

I have a balckstar 240 watt uv model and it cost me 300 shipped, they're less now. Covers my dr60 2x2 tent perfect and only uses 130 watts. Thanks to the super low heat from it I get to use a smaller fan as well, which brings the whole tent's consumption in at around 180 watts. Not bad at all.

I'm not knocking PL-L lights at all. I love mine and they still give me awesome pot! I just had to speak up on behalf of led there.

 

[Mr Jay]

So as not to be too far off topic here is the 242w cfl/pl-l dresser cab. Ol faithful here has been running for about 3 years and has given plenty over that time. Everything from scrog white widow to autoflower SOG. I've also used it for a little breeding station. Right now I've got it loaded with bonsai moms and some freshly planted autos for a 32oz cup competition on another site. I can't divulge which as I believe that's against the rules here. They are joint doctor's chronic ryder and a personal cross of MI5 x Mossy's Bad Betty.

 

[Quikjake]

hey I was wondering has anybody ever tried wiring individual switches on one ballast? For example one workhorse 8 with 4 36w PLLs and wire switches to be able to individually turn off one light or two or three at a time? is it even possible? i thought maybe since its on one ballast if you disconnect one light then, the rest of the lights would be disconnected too right? idk if anyone's tried this before please let me know your results! thanks

 

[brotherjericho]

Switching off one light would still allow the other three to run, if you've wired them as per Fulham's diagrams.

 

[McNerdius]

Woot.

Woot.

Actually, Cabinet Ninja is working off of older knowledge, probably thinking of older magnetic ballasts that were designed for certain bulb sizes/wattages. A Workhorse ballast will run mixed bulbs, I do it now. I can hook up a wattage meter to my Workhorse 8, add or subtract a bulb that is 24w or 36w or 40w when two 55w bulbs are still running and the wattage will change accordingly. With the two 55w bulbs, wattage reads ~111-112w, add a 36w and it runs ~147-148w. It would be better to keep them all the same wattage, but the technology is already built in to detect the difference.

Awesome... That means one less ballast, simpler wiring, and an all-around better upgrade path for me. Running the a 55w & two 24w on a workhorse 5, seems to be a perfect option for the "second half" of the lighting i'll be adding as flower time grows near. As for it being better to keep them the same wattage - are we talking bulb life or similar ? Thanks for the info.

damn i am glad i found out about this shit...

 

[Doji!]

I'm going to guess that once i figure out what lights i can fit into the space i have, someone here could point me out what supply i need to power it all?

i found a vendor that can sell me all i need in one go, but i am unsure about the ballast id need

 

[McNerdius]

I'm going to guess that once i figure out what lights i can fit into the space i have, someone here could point me out what supply i need to power it all?

i found a vendor that can sell me all i need in one go, but i am unsurre about the ballast id need

i'm a super newbie here - an hour or two away from plugging in my first pl-l, in fact, but it seems that the fulham workhorse ballasts make that side of things fairly effortless... make sure you're within the specs and... that's it, really.

 

[McNerdius]

PL-L club slogan suggestion.

GET BENT !