Please help identify deficincies

[Weedninja]

Plant deficiencies can be caused by a number of things, but in soil it's rarely ever ph. Fussing over ph in soil is a hangover from hydro growers, where ph is critical, it's not in soil, unless your water is way out of the ph range. I don't ph my water, I don't even own a ph meter, but I do know that it's hard water and about 7.5 in the ph range, but I still grow great plants with no problems.

A water ph of 7.5 is still fine for nutrient uptake, it's not optimal, but they won't fall over and die either. There are two specific reasons why you shouldn't worry about water ph in soil, 1) because it takes an awful lot of that water to move the soils own ph one way or the other and by the time it does (if it does) you willl have repotted. 2) the ph adjustors used to adjust water ph will either kill the soil micro-bacteria (if using acid adjustors) or be innefective (if using friendly types like citric acid) because they don't hold the ph stable for long enough. Killing the soil micro-bacteria in organic soil will REDUCE nutrient availability and subsequent uptake, so you don't want to do that. It's not an issue in hydro because most of the time there are no micro-bacteria and the plant is being fed chemical/mineral nutrients which are immediately available.

Forget the water and ph and concentrate on getting your soil correctly prepared and amended for plant growth and focus your attentions on how to water your plants correctly. I also suspect you've got bad drainage in those pots, and I'd advise putting them into some correct plant pots.

It's critical to water your plants correctly and to get a little runoff from the pot each watering. Not too much because that will leach nutrients from the soil, just enough to push out wastes and salts but retain plant nutrients.

I'd look at your soil quality and watering technique and/or drainage as the source of your problems.

 

[Avant-Green]

Tree leaf, I know for a fact it has nothing to do with the drainage, the drainage for these ladies is more then adequate. They are drilled out on the bottom, 6 holes and theres a layer of perlite at the bottom.

I will be checking the ph of the run off later. I will post back my findings. Thank you everyone for your advice i appreciate it all.

 

[Avant-Green]

Okay I checked the run off of the soil and it appears to be a ph of 6. fresh water is 7.

Having some issues now, they were fed with 1teaspoon of the grow big and 2 teaspoon of the budswell with 2 teaspoons of liquid karma. Now pic's

GK

Geisha

ssh x nl

and i wide shot, you can see all the trouble. How should the ph be adjusted if need be and i think no budswell.

 

[Forest20]

are you going to repot to larger container looks like it might be root bound. no place for the roots to grow into. thats just my two cents into the problems you might be having

 

[GreenWolf]

Good Luck

Good Luck

Was just reading the thread I hope everything you tried works out great.

 

[Core]

a few Q's...so you repotted from your own made rich soil...into pro-mix ...another very rich preferted soil?...i believe so ey....and now you are still feeding it????

ohw man thats not wise...i just did a complete run on a medium like that...i'm 11 weeks in and i'm not even counting the vegtime i used.....and still did't feed them...get my point?

 

[Avant-Green]

Hey Core, it was my understanding that the pro mix had very little nutes in it? Also they were in those containers for 3 weeks and they were yellowing like the 1st pic's... I'm at a lose here. Now some of them are a little greener but overall they're all still having issues. Also i noticed they all have purple stems i thought that was a bit weird at this stage... and the tips of some of the leaves are turning brown like the ssh x nl, just not as bad. So would anyone recommend not feeding then? This is what i found about the mix:

• [FONT=Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif]Formulated with quality "approved-organic" ingredients for growers who prefer a chemical-free potting mix.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif]Contains a base of Sphagnum peat moss for water-holding characteristics and ORGANIC COMPOST, a natural fertilizer that gradually feeds plants.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif]Natural growth enhancer promotes better growth and increases vegetable and fruit yield.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif]32 quart loose fill bag[/FONT]

 

[mixin]

looks like they are getting too much water to me. are they draining good when you water them?

 

[Avant-Green]

Hey Mixin,

Yes they drain very well, they each have 6 drainage holes on the bottom. Also the temps have dropped a bit, could any of the trouble be related to cold wet soil?

 

[Weedhound]

Yes, cold temps can do a number on both your plant leaves and roots. If you ph EVERYTHING that goes into your pot to 6.5 your plants will absorb SOME of what they need unless your soil is completely messed up ph-wise.

Quality soil is designed to buffer ph correctly which is why so many people run around saying things like "ph is not important in soil" which could not be LESS than true imo. more than likely they either have a good soil that does the work for them or tap water of the correct ph. And yes, ph will affect your plants. My friend......who proudly NEVER checks hers.....grows plants that give a yield of about 8 grams. Mine are more in the 4oz range. Your soil and ph are important.....trust me.

Cold temps......how cold is cold?
Obviously SOMETHING has because his water is going in at 6. and coming out at 7.

 

[Weedhound]

I personally would take them all and transplant them into some Fox Farms Oceans Forest. Gently. That should solve ALL your issues and buy you some time to figure out whats going on. I personally think your soil chemistry is "fuckulated" (Stinky Attic's word) but that's just my thought.

The only issue it WONT solve is cold temps.......don't let yours get too cold

PS....If you do transplant them, don't feed them. FFOF has plenty of what they need but do ph your water to 6.5 before using.

 

[Avant-Green]

Hey Weedhound. I'd like to try and work with the soil i have already, the tap water has a ph of 7 and the run off that came out had a ph of 6. After reading a bunch of other threads it's starting to look like cold temps may be a factor or/and they might need some lime and no nutes? I'm not really sure.

Core posted that the pro mix being used is like fox farms ocean forest

The temps were around 70 in the room, but have dropped into the 60's.

 

[Weedhound]

I don't consider the sixties too cold myself....getting into to 50's will cause my ph to drop but not a higher temp.

I wish you the best of luck. My answer is usually to transplant with quality soil.....it's easier to wipe the slate clean than try to "fix" your soil.....which never seems to work for long for me and seems to be something I constantly have to monitor and worry about through the entire grow. That's why I love quality soil and transplants......my involvement is minimal and I know my plant will thrive. (hydro being a different story......i'm really a hydro grower)

There are MANY fine growing minds here. I'm sure they will be able to help you. I will follow this thread to see how it goes but I'm afraid you guys are getting WAY beyond my soil expertise.

Good luck!!

 

[Core]

• [FONT=Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif]Formulated with quality "approved-organic" ingredients for growers who prefer a chemical-free potting mix.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif]Contains a base of Sphagnum peat moss for water-holding characteristics and ORGANIC COMPOST, a natural fertilizer that gradually feeds plants.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif]Natural growth enhancer promotes better growth and increases vegetable and fruit yield.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Helvetica, Geneva, Arial, SunSans-Regular, sans-serif]32 quart loose fill bag[/FONT]

i just pointed out it has more then the organic compost init....and compost is fertillizer if you did't know...how much is in there should be on the bag.....and believe me if you can grow veggies and fruit in it its heavely composted......

 

[Avant-Green]

Thanks for your input Weedhound. I hope we can get this problem resolved.

Core- Okay since it already has fertz in it, should the soil just be flushed then? Do you think the initial problem was just some sort of lockout or ph problem? maybe due to cold soil or compact soil?

I just want to get these things green again!!! It's frustrating.

I also read that the peat moss may lower the ph of the soil... does anyone know if that's true?

Quick comparison from initial photos and most recent update

GK 1st post


newest pic- has some browning on the tips now

This one has changed the most... for the worse. ssh x nl 4 original pic


And the most recent shot... lots of browning...


And check out this geisha, leaves curling down...

 

[Core]

i realy can't say...all lthese problem could lead to what you see......do you know the exact ph of the medium?? or just the runoff?

Nway,if your roottemps are lower then 16-18 C then i sugeest you find a way to heat the place up....coz it can mess your plants up...if not i suggest a 'small' ph'd flush to straighten things out.....some1 said in the past.....'when i doubt flush it out'....but be shure you let'm sit till there dry afterwards....
but this is only my

 

[sirgrassalot]

The Pro-Mix is using a "Sea-based Compost (from composted shrimp shells & seaweed)"


This will be a fast acting source of N, so out of the frying pan into the fire.
I'd say they're still burning in that mix.

http://www.premierhort.com/eProMix/Gardening/fGardening.htm

 

[MickTheBrag]

o.k man your plants need a high nitrogen feed and a bit of air circulation. iv'e looked at your latest pics and thats my diagnosis man. peace mick.

 

[Avant-Green]

I checked the site on promix from sirgrassalot. I found out what pro mix is composed of. it states pro mix is made up of:

sphagnum peat moss-Natural, organic matter from Canada that has high water-holding and aeration properties.

Perlite-Heat-processed volcanic mineral that increases aeration and improves drainage.

Vermiculite-Heat-processed micaceaous mineral that holds water and nutrients for plant use.

Limestone-Used to adjust pH to optimum range. Also a source of Calcium and Magnesium.

Fast acting fertilizer-Ensures fast plant establishment into the new environment.

Nutrients- Starter nutrient charge of major (N,P,K) and minor (Fe, Mn,...) elements is added for initial plant development.

composted bark-Derived from Canadian Spruce trees, bark ensures low water-retention and improves pot stability.

Water absorbent polymer-Polymer crystal holds up to 40 times its weight in water to minimize watering frequency.

Long Lasting Fertilizer-Polymer-coated, time-release fertilizer gradually feeds plant roots up to 9 months.

Mycorise-A Biological Growth Enhancer that increases the yield of flower, fruit and vegetable plants by extending the root system to acquire available nutrients in the soil. Also improves resistance to root diseases.

Wetting Agent-Wetting agent is incorporated in the mix for ease of water absorption and uniform distribution.

It states when to fertilize-All PRO-MIX products contain a starter fertilizer for initial plant development. It is necessary to fertilize plants within 2-3 weeks for all products, except ULTIMATE POTTING MIX and ULTIMATE CONTAINER MIX – these products have time-release fertilizer that lasts up to 100 days and 9 months respectively.

I have ultimate organic potting mix

Getting a heating mat in the next few days to try and keep the soil warm, also going to flush when the soil dries out.

 

[Graffiti]

I feel so bad for your little babies, and they really look like they're trying. I'm not really one that's in a position to give advice Avant, but this is definitely a learning experience for me just reading about it. Everything in the infirmary is a potential chance to learn from other peoples mistakes, so thank you for sharing this with us all. And it's also good to see everyone rallying together to help. Good luck.