Plant Farm 2016

[plantingplants]

OK here are the soil results:

The Mn index (ppm compared to OM) is 19.7 and Cu is 0.1. So basically there's no copper and I've noticed some shiny leaves on the top of some flowers.. but that could be N too since they're dark green and my total N is high.

I talked to slownickel, Destroyer of Woo. Besides lots of great tidbits about plant nutrition, my main take away as far as what to do from here on out is give 5 lbs per sq yd of gypsum to the ones in early flower (I have five or so), and for the rest that are further along that shouldn't get a lot of Ca right now, is metal. Chelates. Foliar, soil, etc. He threw out some numbers like 6-8g Mn, 3-4g Zn, 1-2g Cu, 1-1.5g B per plant, 2x a week. Also suggested I do not foliar MicroPak since it has Iron.

Everything looks good right now so I don't want to fuck it up, so I'm going to do a couple test plants with gypsum, one with 5 lbs and two with 3 lbs.

I have stupid high iron so I might try giving one of them a heavier dose of Mn to see what happens.

 

[slownickel]

slownickel, that's really interesting. Wouldn't that suggest that almost all of our current genetics are duds (relatively), if almost everyone is/has been selecting for the best producing plant in Ca deficient soil (which almost everyone has)?

PP,

The material that is out there has a much greater genetic potential that no one (except for maybe Caterpillar with 90%+ Ca is ever getting close to....

Over and over we have seen that the best seeds are those that are the most difficult. However, that difficulty is misconstrued by us as it being an impossible variety for MY soil or YOUR soil. What does that usually mean in the majority of the time?

It means that the plant couldn't get enough calcium. If we look at this Cannabanoid profile article by Coffman and Gentner, we see foliar Calcium levels of upto 8% Ca versus lows of 2, 3 and 4%, but that the plants that had high Ca and low Mg, had up to 7 times more THC.

I have seen it in so many crops, over and over. Been doing to longer than I care to remember.

Look at our examples so far. The numbers are holding true.

You are doing as good as you are because your Ca at the [email protected] was 75%. And you can see where your problems lie. That B is hurting you. Constant hollow stems.

That Mn on your mix is scarey low, 65 ppm Mn vs 19.7 ppm Indexed Mn vs 266 Fe and 266 ppm Al.

The idea of using clay spikes for your metals in this high CEC and high pH is recommendable, as well, the gypsum spikes with 10-15% wormcastings in the gyp spike. I would mix in Cu, Mn and Zn into clay spikes, as well as your Micro blends of the above in the water with some B.

Gypsum..... yep. Surprise. Try 2.5 lbs (1/2 dose), 5 lbs (full dose) and 7.5 pounds(1.5xdose) per square meter, for the first 14 inches (assuming 50% density).

Your P is high against your K, and you could use the extra sulfur from the gypsum.

At this CEC of 24, you are driving the Titanic. Hard to steer much less stop. A tight CEC of 12 or 14 and you could make that mix crank. Too much compost and EWC. Cut it by half with some pumice or something...

Hope I helped!

 

[plantingplants]

My Ca probably only hit that mark because I gave them each a pound of gypsum a couple of weeks ago and I've been feeding 176 ppm Ca almost every watering. Meaning I'm only seeing the benefits now. My plants are much smaller then they could be.

Hope you don't mind I'm replying to your pm here:
So, AA Ca saturation is 79.6%. Isn't that higher or equal to my m3 Ca sat? (Higher than the indexed and equal to the basic calculation). I guess that means the oyster broke down perfectly no? No carbonates left if aa Ca = m3 Ca.

What will 5 lbs of gypsum push saturation up to?

 

[slownickel]

PP,

5477 ppm Ca M3 is not equal to 3470 ppm Ca [email protected]

Spectrum calculates or has an index to not take all that Carbonate into the equation of the base distributions knowing that the Ca in the M3 is grossly overestimated. At 5 lbs of gypsum you will be hitting 85% Ca. With that said that calculation is only for the first 7 inches of soil. You really need more than double that..... that was the reason I asked you to be a bit brave and test 1 plant at 7.5 lbs.

Your N is low and your P is very high against your K. Your metals are dramatically unbalanced and will prevent the growth your are after. Pretty sure your Mn is being blocked by all that OM. Metal uptake at the end is barbaric in this plant. Stay on the metals to finish up.

If that Ca number we are reading is from you having applied gypsum, we are getting higher numbers than your reality as well.

Your call Captain P.

 

[plantingplants]

slownickel- Regarding P, a large number of plants actually have red petioles. You've said in the past that an excess can present as deficiency symptoms. Do you think that is the explanation? I've been giving them 60 ppm P with most waterings. Waterings have been every 2-3 days. Or is there possibly an antagonism at play?

Regarding N, i thought you had said that 60 lbs of N was high for mature plants? Some plants are getting pretty dark green.

Regarding Ca, since my soil is 14-24", I'm going to try 10 lbs gypsum on a plant then. ...and I'll water it in thoroughly since I wouldn't want 10 lbs in the first 7".

Here are some deficient leaves I found. These are unlike what I was seeing a month ago. Looks like two different problems. See what you can make of them?

Here is my water analysis:

Went over it with slownickel (thanks!!). Can you guess what he said? haha. He said really the only problem here (besides the little bit of Na) is very high bicarbonates which steal Ca. So yea more gypsum to make up for it. I think he's going to post up an article about the deleterious effects of bicarbonates. Apparently they can even help to form lime on roots.

 

[slownickel]

Water Analysis interpretation and GYPSUM paper

Water Analysis interpretation and GYPSUM paper

As much as you all are tired of hearing it, the bell keeps ringing!!!!

You all have the worst possible problems that are the cheapest to fix!!!

 

[slownickel]

Could be boron toxicity

Could be boron toxicity

Spurr did a good job on this. Sure looks like B toxicity. It isn't mobile so it probably isn't going to cause any problems. Did you spray a bit of B?

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=214956

 

[slownickel]

That could be super high P, blocking K!!!! No trucker to deliver the P!!!

 

[plantingplants]

So what then-- add more K? I've been feeding 176 ppm K + 22 ppm from the water.... (along with 176 ppm Ca).

So in general if there's any deficiency, it could be K since it transports everything?

Also, what about the 60 lbs of N? Didn't you say it was possibly too much for mature plants?

 

[slownickel]

So what then-- add more K? I've been feeding 176 ppm K + 22 ppm from the water.... (along with 176 ppm Ca).

So in general if there's any deficiency, it could be K since it transports everything?

Also, what about the 60 lbs of N? Didn't you say it was possibly too much for mature plants?

High N is the enemy of Ca. Less Ca, less goodies.

See if Jidoka will help you out with some Mo.. hahaha sources.

 

[slownickel]

Add some K to your foliars. Lightly.... lay off the P.

Can you test brix?

 

[plantingplants]

I appreciate the analysis help. I have Sodium Molybdate. My original test indicated low Mo, and I've added half the recommendation so far. I'll water in the rest. I'll pull the MKP out and just use k2so4. If I should stop using N, then i need to lay off the cano3. I'll add k2so4 to my Bt tonight. 2%? 1%?

I can test brix. I'll do it tomorrow.


...and for fun, here's the frostiest plant in the garden. Dream Beaver. All of the Dream Beavers are very similar, and they're the biggest plants in the garden, with Green Crack taking second. I hoped Bodhi's gear would outgrow the Green Crack but it didn't look like it until the GC's started filling out while the DB's just kept stretching.

And here's a lineup of Legend OG x Snow Lotus thumpers:

 

[slownickel]

How much Mo you going to put in?

 

[plantingplants]

25mg per yard. Two more times.

 

[slownickel]

Baby OGK flower @ 3 plus weeks

Baby OGK flower @ 3 plus weeks



My poor plant that suffered through weeks of no sun... and low temps into the high 40's some nights. Relative humidity of 90% plus and frequent mistings from the fog...

OG from seed. Feminized.

 

[BAKED_BEANZ]

looking nice up in here , starting to plump it up .

 

[slownickel]

I appreciate the analysis help.

...and for fun, here's the frostiest plant in the garden. Dream Beaver. All of the Dream Beavers are very similar, and they're the biggest plants in the garden, with Green Crack taking second. I hoped Bodhi's gear would outgrow the Green Crack but it didn't look like it until the GC's started filling out while the DB's just kept stretching.

Your plants are looking nice!

You are very welcome and I appreciate the confidence to do what you have done by taking analysis and having the initiative to learn! Welcome to the world of eyes wide open...

No

 

[Slipnot]

Slow determining the perfect soil ratio is also determined by temps so with that said as weather changes to colder temps the plants do not need so much nutrients there metobolic rate decreases as well as water uptake ..
Same thing applies when its to hot the plants are not taking in lots of nutrients but rather water because there transpiration rate is insane.
The problems many people face is having to much nutrients or available nutes that get sucked up from plants only wanting water ..

Sure there is a science behind it all but its really meaningless when you cannot control mother nature so science to real world practice
I use a simple organic soil mixture no amendments your crying about your cloud and temps where in my case over night temps are 0 - 4 degrees C 32 degrees F day time 15 - 18 degrees temps

People all over the net are coming up with these super soils or what ever again its great for there geological area , It can be a disaster in someone elses
This is why i do not bother with amendments i top dress organic mulches to keep soil bacteria moist and temps in check so everything is highly active .
Using a simple compost mixture with soil and some greens to keep the carbon cycle going as well EWC and worms is a no brainer my soil cost me 60 bucks for 1 yard of top soil which makes me 347 gallons of enriched mixture that will take my plant from start to finish with nothing more then mulches. you cannot get it any more simpler then that and with that simple recipe anyone will have success as long as they use material from there geological area
forget the amendments all your compost has all that is needed in the macro and micro range

The tea craze and Act is just a fuking Gimic to lure people into thinking that its needed
with the microbe craze and one teaspoon of living soil haveing 100's of thousands of microbes how are we to know we need more or even better yet which ones we need

Again we will follow some nit wit like Dr Ingham or Marijuana forums coming up with these notions because we grow a fucking weed lol

 

[plantingplants]

Slipnot, I've often wondered if compost tea is more woo. I reason that if you have a significant amount of compost in your soil and your conditions are right, then there should be plenty of microbes. If the conditions aren't right to keep microbes doing their dance in all the compost that's already there, what does adding more microbes do? I suppose you could kick start a soil...

People swear by it though so I can't say anything definitive. Just seems funny to me.

Adding enzymes and different types of useful bacteria.. That I think is a different story.

Slownickel, thanks for sharing your plant. Excited to see what you can do when you dial it in.

 

[maxmurder]

Slipnot, I've often wondered if compost tea is more woo. I reason that if you have a significant amount of compost in your soil and your conditions are right, then there should be plenty of microbes. If the conditions aren't right to keep microbes doing their dance in all the compost that's already there, what does adding more microbes do? I suppose you could kick start a soil...

People swear by it though so I can't say anything definitive. Just seems funny to me.

Adding enzymes and different types of useful bacteria.. That I think is a different story.

Slownickel, thanks for sharing your plant. Excited to see what you can do when you dial it in.

fuck that noise- i would love to see someone do a side by side between an aact tea and some tanio products. tanio may cost a little more but jesus it saves soooo much time, 1 mil per gal of this and a 1/8th teaspoon of that compared to cleaning up sludgy assed bags, trash cans, air tubing, air stones etc. time=$ for me at least.