Phylos Bioscience sparks outrage after announcing their beginning their own breeding

[Fuel]

Interesting debate. The bubble of hype look like to de-inflate a bit, rationality is back then.


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People have been looking for short cuts for years Put a sativa high into an Indica structure....how that going?

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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This very old unicorn exist in a few strains. Were existing is maybe more accurate.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In term of production i disagree, let's speak true with a hint of violence :
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]- from here, the transatlantic demand is totally focused : the closest possible to the opioids and the more bankable possible (strong stone but which don't last long). Everything outside this spectrum is quickly rejected by distributors, everything in this spectrum is quickly out of stock. I personally consider than (true) creativity, long term breeding, cocky personal projects and risks are dead since now a bit more than a decade.
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]- everything than can be harvested fast and than have the vigor of a hay (hemp), at all costs. Headache is the new stone of the next gen. I partially joke on it.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If you ever offer a couple of buds to these twos clans, they turn white, eventually vomit and ask you every fcking single 5 minutes how long it will last. In general, only hardcore dabbers can handle the weed you're describing as the unicorn than no one want to buy, promote, distribute and sell lol[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I'm not speaking about exceptions off course : gens chasers, connoisseurs than are knowing all their classics and more globally people than are not shy to put their weed in stress test in all type of events.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Because they represent nothing on the market, calling them a minority is for me already an optimistic caricature.
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[zif]

Just to be clear, these plants were regenerated from living plant material! The remarkable fact here is that the permafrost can keep cells alive for millennia, not that scientists can resurrect plants from DNA alone. That absolutely remains science fiction, at least for the time being.

You are mistaken on that point. As I linked the evidence of, it has been done. With tissue that is both deceased, preserved frozen, and was almost 32,000 years old. They created complete living specimens from the DNA and tissue. That was in 2012, the first time it was ever done was in 2007 (IIRC).

 

[Water-]

Problem is people like Sam and Rob C and Kev Jodrey stood with or still stand behind Mowgli Holmes and Phylos

When respected, experienced, cannabis educators, authors and cultivators hype up Phylos.... guess who gets A monster credibility boost?

And the Spin on phylos was dizzying,,,,Rob saying it protects strains from ever being patented Sam collecting stuff from the likes of Ace and CBG

Did anyone check these guys work? grow out the sex'd plant the sample came from... see if it matched the test?

Independent review Peer review of DNA connections made in 'The Galaxy' Is it valid ???

Peer review is the standard in science

You dont just keep pulling things out your ass over and over and keep charging more and more $$$

Independent peer review ....anyone? sound familiar

Mowgli aka Phylos stacked the shit pretty high and the only people really calling him out usually brought along Joe Pietri inspired tales woven into an all out attack on Sam_Skunkman

Then we had to spend a lot time chasing down apologies from publishers and just asking how does that paranoid, philip k. dick, time traveling fantasy really play out anyway...?

Phylos is a genetic technology company and can take the DNA and develop cannabis specific tools that they can patent and sell

You paid money to give them raw data and funding to do just that.....And they have multiple shell corporations with employees that come from companies similar to Monsanto

The next thing Mowgli is telling us is he will never make GMO cannabis And he will give the 'new amazing cannabis' that he develops back to the community

playing this shell game with a bunch of dumb stoners is easy money

Is it here...? Here? oh, you think its under here ? want bet? Nope.

Thank- you for playing our game we have some fabulous parting gifts for you........

Again Science 101 Peer Reviewed Independent review with same result more than twice..lol

Validity......It does what it says it does Repeatable results!

If you want to know if your clone is the real deal through DNA test you better have the real thing to compare it against

And you better have the real deal dude standing there like skunk_va for chem91

Thats how you know somebody who knows where it came from and what it is And they gave it to you

Now you have it from the source and you can validate that you have a genetic match to the real thing


More Fun with Mowgli.....That galaxy....Its a cluster alright!

Emerald Cup 2017 Mowgli Holmes What Are You Smoking EDIT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyjwY-THCCE

People have been looking for short cuts for years Put a sativa high into an Indica structure....how that going?

Now, you want to cheat and skip running the plants at all and use your magic genetic tests to predict the future and breed for yield pest resistance and compatibility with round-up

Its really not that much fun or good


If I have learned one important thing from Sam_Skunkman its the word 'Progeny'

Test the Progeny


.

i think you are mistaken.
this is what peer review is:

https://undsci.berkeley.edu/article/howscienceworks_16

"In science, peer review typically works something like this:
A group of scientists completes a study and writes it up in the form of an article. They submit it to a journal for publication.
The journal's editors send the article to several other scientists who work in the same field (i.e., the "peers" of peer review).
Those reviewers provide feedback on the article and tell the editor whether or not they think the study is of high enough quality to be published.
The authors may then revise their article and resubmit it for consideration.
Only articles that meet good scientific standards (e.g., acknowledge and build upon other work in the field, rely on logical reasoning and well-designed studies, back up claims with evidence, etc.) are accepted for publication."


Their work was still in the research phase.
Peer review is aways good but they had not reached the point where it was necessary scientifically.

Things like the galaxy map which was constantly being revised are common amongst people doing genetic research. Its part of learning.

Your mistake was not realizing that it was a work in progress made by a corporation whose only goal is profit,
Not something that was being presented as a new factual science discovery by benevolent scientists whose only goal is truth

here is an example of a guy doing research and making plot maps of Human genetics diversity and relationships:

https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/04/early-chariot-drivers-of-transcaucasia.html


he makes new maps all the time and they are always changing as he learns more.


Phylos should have informed people better as to what the galaxy was.
But they suck just like those companies like 23andme that collect human DNA, give people false or confused results about where their ancestors lived,
and then sell the DNA to pharma companies.

 

[GatorGumbo]

Just to be clear, these plants were regenerated from living plant material! The remarkable fact here is that the permafrost can keep cells alive for millennia, not that scientists can resurrect plants from DNA alone. That absolutely remains science fiction, at least for the time being.

Again, to be clear on the semantics of the matter, the biological material was said to be deceased and preserved. It was not viable living tissue, being biological in composition and biologically animate are two completely different things. If it has to be reanimated by cloning tissue cultures and otherwise exists in literally no other forms then it is unilaterally "dead". Biologically speaking there is no fine line on the matter but in the world of the living, you are either animate, dormant, or dead. The seeds were not just dormant, they were otherwise completely unviable outside of the DNA and chemicals in the tissue. It's like calling a homeless shelter a discotech just because both have people on drugs inside a building. You could say that since they were able to reanimate it from original tissue at all, that it was never actually "dead", but I personally gather that such is inaccurate.

 

[herbgreen]

Well,

hopefully I wont have to listen people talk about science and 'real breeding' in regard to phylos ever again

And I think Mowgli knows what he can do with his 'amazing amazing weed' that he hasnt grown yet

Yes, apparently many of us were wrong in believing phylos was creating something useful

They want to put their watermark on every strain description like some sort of 'phylos certified' DNA genetic fingerprint

yeah, I should have figured that galaxy is a knock off gimmick they use to help rip-off dazed investors

God bless soil king for bringing mowgli in so we can see his wacked out body language and listen to his non-answers

Another cringe worthy encounter


Its pretty clear what Mowgli and phylos are looking for...Money

 

[zif]

Tricky semantics are not required. Read the actual article and it's quite clear they consider the tissue to be living.

Here's a quote from an expert in seed preservation who concurs:

"This is by far the most extraordinary example of extreme longevity for material from higher plants," commented Robin Probert, head of conservation and technology at the UK's Millennium Seed Bank.

"I'm not surprised that it's been possible to find living material as old as this, and this is exactly where we would go looking, in permafrost and these fossilized rodent burrows with their caches of seeds."

"But it is a surprise to me that they're finding viable material from this placental tissue rather than mature seeds."

Essentially, put the cells in the right nutrients and hormones, and they start growing. That's alive. Try telling kids who were cryopreserved before birth otherwise!

Again, to be clear on the semantics of the matter, the biological material was said to be deceased and preserved. It was not viable living tissue, being biological in composition and biologically animate are two completely different things. If it has to be reanimated by cloning tissue cultures and otherwise exists in literally no other forms then it is unilaterally "dead". Biologically speaking there is no fine line on the matter but in the world of the living, you are either animate, dormant, or dead. The seeds were not just dormant, they were otherwise completely unviable outside of the DNA and chemicals in the tissue. It's like calling a homeless shelter a discotech just because both have people on drugs inside a building. You could say that since they were able to reanimate it from original tissue at all, that it was never actually "dead", but I personally gather that such is inaccurate.

 

[Ringodoggie]

I have one question.... how much money did Phylos get for all this? Was it a buy-out or the beginning of a relationship?


Just curious.






.

 

[White Beard]

They probably started with a few key investors...if they kept costs down, they could have pulled this off with 3,000,000 maybe. If they actually have to work to make money, it could be a long time before the original investors get paid.

Instead, they positioning for a platinum payoff: being bought wholesale by Big Ag.

If they make the sale, I wonder what they’ll get up to next...after they walk away with their money and anything they *didn’t* sell.... the idea they might have plans to screw UP as well as DOWN, and that Big Ag might take the biggest hit of all, is amusing. We’ll see how smart they are, now that we’re watching.

The fact they’ve burned all their bridges should make it interesting

 

[frostqueen]

As for plasmid vector, has that been done with Cannabis, and even if so, how does anyone know which genes are the desirable ones, the genes in the Cannabis genome have not been mapped no one knows what is what, that is just beginning, the same with DNA Marker-assisted breeding first they need to map the marker or markers for important traits,
we have a long way to go before this is a reality, as all I sent was extracted DNA they can not even make copies to insert into a plant to try and make a living Cannabis plant with the same DNA.

THIS is what everyone freaking out seems to be not understanding: as far as I know Phylos hasn't made any attempts to tie gene sequences to favorable traits.

As someone who was unfortunately part of the first wave of their DNA tests (for 'free'), I was surprised that there was no detailed questionnaire about what each specific plant was like. How can you tie favorable traits to genetic sequences when you don't even bother to gather that information from the breeder? Not only that, but the majority of the samples that were given to them have questionable lineage. The names have all been changed and embellished, some of them for decades.

So: even if Phylos were to attempt genetic manipulation with our samples (which seems unlikely from a technical standpoint IMO, at least for now), how would they be at any advantage at all over traditional selective breeding? They still can't select for traits without growing out the plants first. They don't even know what their mapped gene sequences translate to in the genetically-altered offspring.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems like the same obstacle all breeders have had to overcome. No?

 

[F2F]

Phylos doesn't need living tissue to make money off your samples. Genomics databases are worth millions - even before linkage mapping is complete. It's a well-defined workflow that's been around for years in human disease research, Ag, etc: sequence, synthesize, express, screen, make $$.

For example, google "amyris cannabinoid". The MJ plant is not needed.

 

[herbgreen]

Just in case you would rather hear a voice other than Mowglis explain phylos bio-science


Jes Kristof VP of Research and Development @phylos

Genetics 101: An introduction to DNA, genes and trait heredity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghDIpHpKsQo


.

 

[White Beard]

Phylos doesn't need living tissue to make money off your samples. Genomics databases are worth millions - even before linkage mapping is complete. It's a well-defined workflow that's been around for years in human disease research, Ag, etc: sequence, synthesize, express, screen, make $$.

For example, google "amyris cannabinoid". The MJ plant is not needed.

The more we learn, the more suspect the entire enterprise seems to be...like underpants gnomes, except cannabis dna - then, PROFIT!!!

If these exposures decrease the market value of their data, I think that would be...appropriate

 

[F2F]

The more we learn, the more suspect the entire enterprise seems to be...like underpants gnomes, except cannabis dna - then, PROFIT!!!

If these exposures decrease the market value of their data, I think that would be...appropriate

I don't think exposure is going to move the needle much unfortunately.

"Amyris Finalizes Cannabinoid Development, Licensing and Commercialization Agreement Containing $300 Million of R&D and Milestone Payments and a Long-Term Royalty Stream"

 

[White Beard]

Just saying it would’ve been fitting

...but it would be funny if they ended up losing the deal as a consequence - and they woulda gotten away with it, too, if it weren’t for them meddling hippies! And that damn’ DOG!!!

Made me laugh...

 

[herbgreen]

Just maybe if Mowgli had not been peacocking around that stage in front of those investors!

Meanwhile throwing the whole community under that bus

And how hes going to "create amazing amazing weed" but you can't do that....No, not you.....

......Not in your basement or backyard you see...that cant happen

We at phylos can do 'real breeding' and you....well, you cannot

longpause>>>> I havent grown it yet..................but we will

And it will replace all known cannabis..................It just will


Oh, hell No....since when are people lining up to listen to this crap!!!



What a sickening display.....repugnant even....downright gruesome

 

[izzypog]

Just maybe if Mowgli had not been peacocking around that stage in front of those investors!

Meanwhile throwing the whole community under that bus

And how hes going to "create amazing amazing weed" but you can't do that....No, not you.....

......Not in your basement or backyard you see...that cant happen

We at phylos can do 'real breeding' and you....well, you cannot

longpause>>>> I havent grown it yet..................but we will

And it will replace all known cannabis..................It just will


Oh, hell No....since when are people lining up to listen to this crap!!!



What a sickening display.....repugnant even....downright gruesome

I noticed the turn out was not high, and I also noticed a lot of people questioning Mowgli's motives, I have seen some people grow some amazing smoke, without any gadgetry. Sad how this all is turning out, it is disrespectful to the closet growers, old school growing, feeling your grow, knowing what plant mixes well with another is not genetics, it is the toker that knows, the person who smokes it, not the asshole that looks at it through a microscope to see it's genetics. It is a labor of love, no different than the passion of a home brewer or the common gardener. What phylos is trying to do has no soul, no heart.

 

[iTHC]

interesting read opcorn:

 

[KokoKush]

While I am not happy about their decision... it was inevitable

 

[White Beard]

Somehow, the “unexpected but inevitable betrayal” meme/scheme just isn’t funny anymore (if it ever was)

 

[Badfishy1]

Just maybe if Mowgli had not been peacocking around that stage in front of those investors!

Meanwhile throwing the whole community under that bus

And how hes going to "create amazing amazing weed" but you can't do that....No, not you.....

......Not in your basement or backyard you see...that cant happen

We at phylos can do 'real breeding' and you....well, you cannot

longpause>>>> I havent grown it yet..................but we will

And it will replace all known cannabis..................It just will


Oh, hell No....since when are people lining up to listen to this crap!!!



What a sickening display.....repugnant even....downright gruesome

>since when are people lining up...
Well, since boomers with a little bit of extra cash, going through a midlife crisis, wanting to feel cool/relevant again. The same generation that sat around for 40+ years in their ivory towers with a reefer madness mentality shitting on the lazy stoners but now see the new ‘green rush’ and want to DickRide their way to the top