Photo Manipulation..is it Art?

[Mr. Bongjangles]

Photo manipulation is definitely art, but there is a legit way to do it and a cheap way that reduces you to the lowest rung on the artistic ladder.

When you use a 1-click filter/effect in an image manipulation program, I believe you are no longer the real artist of the work produced - you have now collaborated with the programmer of that filter/effect.

When multiple filters are used, or one used in a unique way that produces an original effect, then perhaps you can put your name on the final result with a degree of pride.

To put it another way - if I can look at your work and recreate it in seconds simply because I know how photoshop works, that doesn't speak much to your artistic ability. It may be art, and some even may think it is great art, but you'll never have true respect from your fellow artists who understand that it was created with a few clicks of a mouse.

You can have a healthy career selling them framed at various fairs and stuff, hehe.

Seriously though doobie, your photography is so spectacular, its almost a crime to mess it up with high-school level image manipulation.

 

[easy420dude]

As an example of the work I do...

As an example of the work I do...

here is the original photo I used to create the Visions of Disphoria image I posted earlier in the thread. Is it art? I think so. Others may well disagree.

 

[DoobieDuck]

Vado thank you for chimmin in Bro. Caligreen you and I have a few things in common, the web sites, sales, and the idea one has to put some time in, "serious experience" needed. The Tom Hill banner you see every day here was created by me using a Wacom pen and tablet, plus Xara, a software program. But it was all done by hand with the pen. I could only guess, but think I put over 100 hours into it. I'm toying with this subject as I am developing a site where my images can be purchased as well as a book. I don't know whether to include this type art work, manipulation, or not. Those that see it respond with where can I buy it. If you throw enough mud on the wall something will stick. DD

 

[easy420dude]

Doobie - I use zazzle.com to sell my artwork. It's free to use and I highly recommend it.

 

[DoobieDuck]

When you use a 1-click filter/effect in an image manipulation program, I believe you are no longer the real artist of the work produced - you have now collaborated with the programmer of that filter/effect.

Bo great point..brings up a new perspective on this for me..

May I offer Easy420s Photoshoped image of the original above. In his album Photoshop Paintings
Easy no disrespect my freind, but should it not be called manipulated images rather than paintings? Unless of course a brush was used as I did in the Tom Hill banner.

Sorry if I missed responding to those of you who posted while I was typing..DD

 

[easy420dude]

I refer to them as digital paintings because that's what it seems most like to me, and I have a painting background. One of my painting instructors taught me an intro course to photography where he taught us to think of the camera as a tool for 'painting'. He was stressing the similarities between photography and painting such as composition, light/shadow, texture, etc. I have always thought of photography as a form of painting ever since. Photoshop seems to me a tool for 'painting' as well. Not everyone is going to see it that way of course. That's just me. But you are correct in saying that it is photo manipulation...and I am the one pushing the boundaries by calling it digital painting.

 

[Mr. Bongjangles]

Bo great point..brings up a new perspective on this for me..

May I offer Easy420s Photoshoped image of the original above.

Sorry if I missed responding to those of you who posted while I was typing..DD

To be clear, I don't think Easy420's work is what I'm talking about.

What I'm down on is using 1 filter to give a specific artistic look, then calling it a day. For example, were I to take the original image Easy420 posted, and then run the Accented Edge filter, we'd have this -

Which looks cool I suppose, but wouldn't be fooling a fellow photoshop user for 2 seconds, and I wouldn't try to fool myself into saying I created art in the 10 seconds it took to play with the sliders and apply the filter.

 

[WasntMe]

Hey everyone,
I certainly would not call myself a photographer because I certainly have not paid my dues enough to earn the knowledge or skill to be called that. I would though say I am a photo enthusiast as I have a lot of interest in, appreciation for and starting to build my knowledge within the art form of photography.
That being said, I have had my hands in many artistic forms over the years ... starting with music. This same nature of the manipulation of another's art being relabeled as your own art has been debated for years in the music industry. Also the debate of using new technology to make manipulations simpler is always occurring. Especially with the genres of hip hop and electronic dance. Sampling has become so common place that many times the sample that artist A is using on his album comes from artist B's album who in turn actually just sampled it from Artist C ...etc. Is Artist A's album or song any less valid because he never actually pickup a bass guitar in his life? Is it any less valid if all he did to change it was add a simple flange filter to the bass line of the sample because that was the only thing he felt it needed in his piece?

For me personally, it is nice to know your roots and the evolution .... but it is also nice to see things with new eyes. And to see things with new eyes can sometimes involve a complex change or it can be something very subtle.

I see all these things out there .. software, computers, airbrush etc as just tools, like a paintbrush. It's up to an Artist to chose the tools he works with.
No matter what tools or base materials are used ultimately an Artist must communicate something that can be appreciated by others for it to be excepted as art. The process the artist uses to achieve this isn't always as important as the result achieved. But sometimes the process can be the art within itself ... ie ever seen videos of people speed painting?

The following is a photo from one of my favorite photography Artists: Aster Luu (you can see more of her stuff at asterluu.com or in galleries throughout the US)
Without knowing the process of how this was achieved, what do you think of this particular shot:

If art is based on the complexity of the process would this piece be art? If complexity is the deciding factor then I guess it would depend on which process path she chose to make this shot achievable ... is it art?

 

[DoobieDuck]

Easy420 good explanation Bro. Mr. Bo that ^^ is more or less what I have issues with. Just as I would have with the Flour Mill image if I had not created the image...one click of the mouse doesn't seem to be enough effort to call it your work when using anothers image. But yet arranging several man made items, wine bottle, bong etc. can be a "one click of the shutter" then called a "still life" DD

WasntMe..good example there. Art was described to me as something that makes you look over it closely and from different angles trying to understand the idea behind it. In your example I looked for a good minute or more, came back and looked again. It had me captivated trying to figure out what the artist was trying to show. I like your assesment of yourself. DD

 

[Mr. Bongjangles]

Yeah, there is an interesting parallel here with audio sampling.

I think recontextualization is the line in the sand in both cases.

Were DJ Shadow for instance to simply add a flange or echo to a sample and call it a track, he may have created some kind of art, but I doubt he would gain much respect or sell many copies. This is the equivalent to a simple filter being applied to an image.

Instead, he combines multiple altered samples to create something new and different. Not lately, but back in the Endtroducing era

Another example would be Girl Talk. His recent mashup albums are constructed almost entirely of samples, 500+ per mix, but by combining lots of them at once in an intelligent and thoughtful way, he makes something new and fresh.

Essentially, the thought process and inspiration still need to be there when one employs these modern tools if the result is to be worthy of respect & admiration.

Anyways, I like the piece you linked... The hard lines of the beams or whatever in the middle contrasts with the softened lines of the rest - feels like perhaps a statement on modern life vs. nature. Could prolly ponder on that for a while - good shit.

Doobie, you might want to consider networking with some local artists (or even online) and letting them re-create your photography in their preferred medium. You could then sell prints of these "interpretations" and split the profit with the artists. And sell your own manipulations alongside.

 

[Guest3498]

^ That's a great example with regards to electronic music.

It's about how the artist uses the tools he is given, not what the tools he uses are...

 

[SupaDupaDupa]

Lots of good talk on this thread. There's good art, bad art and I personally think one click is the new paint by numbers. It's great for people that have no skill, but want to have some fun. I'm sure there is some serious artist out there somewhere that will end doing something with one click stuff and the art community will go absolutely bananas over it.

On a quick tangent. When I have my art photographed by a photographer that specializes in photographing the type of art I create. I pay him but he still owns the copyright of the image and can do anything he wants to do with it. I have to ask for permission every time I want to have it published. Peace SDD

 

[WasntMe]

... The hard lines of the beams or whatever in the middle contrasts with the softened lines of the rest - feels like perhaps a statement on modern life vs. nature. Could prolly ponder on that for a while - good shit....

basically yes.

It is the reflection of beach grass in the doors of a stainless steel Viking refrigerator.

In the Hamptons NY there is some amazing beach scenery but the community is filled with the ultra rich who surround themselves with man made luxuries. The draw to the area was the natural beauty but as more people build there to have the status of living there ... the more the nature disappears and fades away.

Now this particular shot could have been done in a few ways I know of:
1. Basic Photoshop splice of two shots and some lighting adjustments
2. a couple of guys lug the huge refrigerator down to the beach for a photo shoot.
3 . double exposed film.

#3 is how this shot was actually produced... a double exposure of film. But as you can imagine this could have been produced in few other ways with the result being the same.... still making the same statement.


Now I say, look at Andy Warhol ... a lot of his work could be questioned in this manor too.
Does looking in the B&W newspaper at a puma sneaker ad and recreating it exactly on a 6x6 canvas make it now art? how about it's now $1.8 million price tag?
haha

DD, how I look at your manipulation above ... where you see it as only a 1 filter change ... I see it a DD remix (like in music). the original is there but in a different form as recreated by what you saw/chose to do with it.

To me, the only thing that matters in the art world is the appreciation..... appreciation of the viewer and the self appreciation of the artist involved.

 

[easy420dude]

Yes, the parallel to digital sampling in the music world is an excellent one. So good point WasntMe. Very much the same issues. It's all in what the artist does with it.

 

[DocLeaf]

Art works on many levels,, the first two being that of the artist and the audience.

peace

 

[easy420dude]

Right on Doc! Nice butterflies.

 

[GMT]

To my mind, there are 2 schools of photography. Theres the engineers and the artists. An engineer will get the best lighting, the best angle, the best of everything he can set up, press the shutter, and then use the image manipulation programs to help them to get the best representation of the actual. Whereas the artists, will take the shot they took, and try to insert a sense of emotion in their work. Those who succeed get the person looking at the image to not only see the image of the subject, but feel something too, to experience the image rather than merely study it. And I think each photographer knows which school they belong to.

 

[DocLeaf]

I am the Artist, I am the Photographer, I am the Designer, I am the Grower, I am the Seed Specialist, I am the Manager, I am the Advertiser, I am the Promoter, I am the Owner. I think therefore I am ,, which allows all work produced to be an original

The manipulation of someone else's image/photo ,, without their permission,, is a form of plagiarism. However many Artists are happy for their work to be used by fellow Artists,, in totally separate installations,, so long as the artistic expression of the original piece is (in part) maintained. For example in the UK Graffiti Artists have long since argued that 'corporate advertising companies' have 'stolen' their style for profit.

Personally I'd be pissed if i found my artwork being used to advertise the babylom system.. but otherwise, it was produced for people to look at

What is Art? is one of the first questions of the philosopher... since it has few definitive answers.

Peace

 

[lizard_9]

Hi guys, last september i began some HDR work.
Some people just hate it as it is not real photography.
Anyway, it reminds me how i see the world with my two favorites gifts from nature: Cannabis and Psilocybin mushrooms.

I'm constantly tryin' new recipes, depending on what i shoot.

Just for sharing:

Each picture is composed of 3 shots in high speed bracketing (0 +2 -2)
Then the HDR and Tone Mapping are processed under Photomatix Pro 4.
I use to tweak the strength, microcontrast, gamma, luminosity and micro smoothing.

Then if the picture is too noisy, i finish my work with Lightroom 3. (really need to catch Photoshop...)

 

[Mr. Alkaline]

I am too simplistic for some, but Art is from the heART, right???

Ya can't make a Create-tion, without Creating, and,
....'Creativity' is synonymous with 'Communication'???

Surly any 'alteration' is subject to another's Judgment, and attitudes from which the revelation(photo) brings.

Does altered meaning, contain meaning still???
..Is anyone losing jobs, who does not have paintbrushes from silicon valley

Great idea for a Thread DoobieDuck!!!