Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

[rives]

>>I believe that the reason that Philips hasn't introduced a higher-wattage lamp is the operating pressure.

thanks, that answers my question! There had to be a good reason. What do mean about HPS having a fraction of the lifetime….don't the specs show that Philips Greenpower HPS bulbs last much longer? I was seeing 95% at 2.5 years w/ HPS vs. about 1 year for CMH?? Does it out-peform those specs??

You can see big commersh guys don't like CMH - I'd rather buy 1 DE HPS light every 2.5 years that 2-3 CMH bulbs every year, for a hobbyist it's fine, but not if you're buying 500 of them.

I don't get the "cherry picking" comment - any of the Gavita pro fixtures give you the same efficiency as CMH right? Wouldn't the PPF umol rating indeed be apples-to-apples??? yes, the HPS might have more heat, I get that part…..

http://www.gavita-holland.com/index.php/products/lamps/category/pro-lamps.html

The Green Power has great lumen maintenance, but it is far beyond the majority of the HPS family. The 315 lamps vary considerably depending on which one you select - the 930 T9 is rated for a 50% longer life than the Agro. Your linked spec sheet shows that the GP 400w has an expected lifespan of 12,000 hours. The 315 Agro is 20,000 and the 930 is 30,000 hours.

This gets back to what I was talking about with the "cherry picking" comment - you can't realistically compare individual specifications from selected lamps because, as a whole, the lamp with all of the chosen specifications doesn't exist. You have to compare lamp-for-lamp, with all of the specs included.

The DE lamps are great, but as you pointed out, not in a 3x3 or a 4x4 tent.

 

[krunchbubble]

The Green Power has great lumen maintenance, but it is far beyond the majority of the HPS family. The 315 lamps vary considerably depending on which one you select - the 930 T9 is rated for a 50% longer life than the Agro. Your linked spec sheet shows that the GP 400w has an expected lifespan of 12,000 hours. The 315 Agro is 20,000 and the 930 is 30,000 hours.

This gets back to what I was talking about with the "cherry picking" comment - you can't realistically compare individual specifications from selected lamps because, as a whole, the lamp with all of the chosen specifications doesn't exist. You have to compare lamp-for-lamp, with all of the specs included.

The DE lamps are great, but as you pointed out, not in a 3x3 or a 4x4 tent.

I run them in 5X5 tents, DE's that is...

 

[rives]

Good to see you around, Krunch.

I would think that the DE's would work great in a 5x5.

 

[willowz]

Let's not pretend that you can cherry-pick amongst the various attributes of an entire lighting family and choose whichever specification you like to compete against the 315. It's meaningless - the 600w and 1000w HPS lamps have a fraction of the life of either the 315 or the Green Power 400. The Green Power has phenomenal lumen maintenance but most other HPS lamps don't approach it.

I believe that the reason that Philips hasn't introduced a higher-wattage lamp is the operating pressure. CMH operates at vastly higher pressures than other lamp families and current technology doesn't allow for a substantially larger envelope that can contain those pressures.

I've used most available forms of lighting over the years. For what I do, the overall performance of the 315 is better than anything else that I've used in several decades of doing this. YMMV.

Rives, do you think Philips will ever introduce a version of the DE lamp's for CMH bulbs? I suspect a leap in efficiency and lumen count if that were to happen...

 

[willowz]

In regards to bulb. If you have a closed fixture, then I don't see what's wrong with going with the T9. Our of an concern of safety I don't see what's wrong with going with a T12 in a 4x4 space. The lumen count won't make that much of a difference once the plants are in bloom and the footprint is lower as the plants center around the light...

Also, growershouse has a steal on Nanolux MaxPar CMH bulbs in the 3100k spectrum, which covers both the veg stage and bloom stage if one is unwilling to swap out 4200k bulbs after veg to 3100k...

See:
http://growershouse.com/nanolux-maxpar-cmh-315w-ceramic-metal-halide-lamp-3100-k

 

[rives]

Rives, do you think Philips will ever introduce a version of the DE lamp's for CMH bulbs? I suspect a leap in efficiency and lumen count if that were to happen...

I have no idea what Philips has in their design stream. Interesting idea, though!

In regards to bulb. If you have a closed fixture, then I don't see what's wrong with going with the T9.

I use the T9 930's in enclosed fixtures.

 

[GoldenSyrup]

Rives, do you think Philips will ever introduce a version of the DE lamp's for CMH bulbs? I suspect a leap in efficiency and lumen count if that were to happen...

Growlite offer a DE 315w CMH lamp that will fit in current DE reflectors. I spoke to Growlite over FB about this, I asked if the DE meant an increase in PPF the respone was "its about the same"

So the tech exists for horticulture (DE CMH has been a thing in commercial shop fittings etc for a long time) but currently doesn't offer any advantage of the SE lamps.

 

[McKush]

Good to see you around, Krunch.

I would think that the DE's would work great in a 5x5.

Works well for me but toying with idea of adding CMH to it as i should have room lightwise. But a single 1000 DE works great. Im like 5x5.5 and use orca

 

[tenthirty]

Would 6x6 be too much for a de?

 

[Centrum]

So i havent had a chance to read the 91 pages and sadly today is the first i have ever heard about the CMH 315, i have been looking into cxb cobs and getting headache over the prices of LEDS.

Would love to be able to replace my 600watt HPS and get rid of the heat and extra Electricity.

The first thing i heard is that these 315 CMH would replace a 600 watt HPS.
Is this true ?
Are these CMH 315 really better then a 600 wattHPS and less electricity ?

 

[Jhhnn]

So i havent had a chance to read the 91 pages and sadly today is the first i have ever heard about the CMH 315, i have been looking into cxb cobs and getting headache over the prices of LEDS.

Would love to be able to replace my 600watt HPS and get rid of the heat and extra Electricity.

The first thing i heard is that these 315 CMH would replace a 600 watt HPS.
Is this true ?
Are these CMH 315 really better then a 600 wattHPS and less electricity ?

I've never used 600w but rather 400w & 1000w systems. A 315 will grow noticeably better than a conventional 400w & two seem to be the rough equivalent of a conventional 1000w.

You're at an awkward trade-off point.

I'd expect a 315 to be somewhat less productive than a 600w at basically half the power & heat.

If you want a lot more light, two 315's will deliver at basically the same power & heat.

 

[dbkick]

I've been on the lec/cmh thing for awhile and recently decided to try a hortilux platinum with an allstart 860 . It's basically like 3 315 in one lamp.
I found the results very good and just recently bought 3 Baddass ballasts (which are similar to the hortiluz platinum) .
So all saying why haven't they made a higher wattage cmh at philips.....they have you just can't run them on high freq sine wave ballast, the thd and harmonic resonance will destroy the lamp. I've been running an allstart 860 on a horti platinum for over a month now without an issue.....other than my colas seem to be bigger :/

 

[dbkick]

Also solis tek is making what they describe as a higher quality 315 lamp, pgzx18 connector and all, they're using a low iron glass for more UV.
I'll be ordering a couple of these.

 

[rives]

I've been on the lec/cmh thing for awhile and recently decided to try a hortilux platinum with an allstart 860 . It's basically like 3 315 in one lamp.
I found the results very good and just recently bought 3 Baddass ballasts (which are similar to the hortiluz platinum) .
So all saying why haven't they made a higher wattage cmh at philips.....they have you just can't run them on high freq sine wave ballast, the thd and harmonic resonance will destroy the lamp. I've been running an allstart 860 on a horti platinum for over a month now without an issue.....other than my colas seem to be bigger :/

The 860w AllStart has been available for quite a while and targets the 1000w MH retrofit market. While they are a CDM/CMH lamp and many people have had excellent results with them, they are in a different lamp family than the CDM Elite series (the 315's). They have a much shorter life than the 315 series with the exception of the Agro, a much lower lumen maintenance, and a much lower lumen per watt output (two 930 315's will put out the same mean lumens as the 860 at 27% less wattage, and last 10k more hours).

 

[dbkick]

They have a much shorter life than the 315 series with the exception of the Agro, a much lower lumen maintenance, and a much lower lumen per watt output (two 930 315's will put out the same mean lumens as the 860 at 27% less wattage, and last 10k more hours).

Even on a LFSW ballast with thd rating of less than 4 percent??

 

[rives]

Even on a LFSW ballast with thd rating of less than 4 percent??

Those stats are straight from the lamp specs.

 

[dbkick]

LFSW digital I might add. I see great results although this entire grow hasn't been with the allstart, I just tossed it in the middle of flower due to a defective POS hydrofarm phantom DE.

 

[rives]

No doubt. The Gnome did quite well with them, too.

 

[dbkick]

REvolution micro is another that's come out with LFSW DE .
Just another china based light company with an idea.

 

[dbkick]

No doubt. The Gnome did quite well with them, too.

The gnome? can you link me?