Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

[rives]

These lamps operate at much higher internal pressures than other HID lamps, with operating pressures ranging up to 2,500 psi or more. Although failures are infrequent, they do happen and when they do, the lamps grenade in spectacular fashion. This is the reason that there aren't higher-wattage lamps available - they haven't developed the materials to safely contain the pressure levels of a larger lamp.

I wouldn't use them that way on a bet.

 

[LargePrime]

just to be clear, are the T9s 930s? i dont think there are 942 t9s. IF they are 942s can you get me pics of the box, and its numbers?

So I ordered 5 942 bulbs and they sent me T9 bulbs...

I have ran t9s in wings. I had no problems, but rives, indirectly, taught me the risks. Now I am old and look back on my foolish youth, and wonder. please don't.

 

[Jhhnn]

These lamps operate at much higher internal pressures than other HID lamps, with operating pressures ranging up to 2,500 psi or more. Although failures are infrequent, they do happen and when they do, the lamps grenade in spectacular fashion. This is the reason that there aren't higher-wattage lamps available - they haven't developed the materials to safely contain the pressure levels of a larger lamp.

I wouldn't use them that way on a bet.

Agreed. In Drakore's place, I'd contact the vendor. If a satisfactory solution can't be reached, I'd contact my credit card company, Ebay, Paypal or whatever it takes.

The truth is that open commercial bi-pin fixtures should have PGZX lamp holders & that growers shouldn't run unprotected MH lamps of any sort in open fixtures for the same reasons you offer.

Obviously, none of that will happen, the industry being what it is.

Explosive lamp failure is apparently rather rare but the consequences can be catastrophic. Don't be the guy who learns the hard way.

Just a heads up for anybody interested- there are a couple of seemingly decent deals on Denver Clist for 315 fixtures & ballasts.

 

[lazi]

Would the Mogul bulb from advance tech be ok in an adjust a wing reflector? The bulbs are wide but the adjust a wing can move the Mogul socket.

Friend wanting to try them is limited for height so no way the built in ballast types would fit.

 

[Ericos]

Just pulling down some of my caveman OG hybrid that were under the 315's just loving it!!

 

[Jhhnn]

Would the Mogul bulb from advance tech be ok in an adjust a wing reflector? The bulbs are wide but the adjust a wing can move the Mogul socket.

Friend wanting to try them is limited for height so no way the built in ballast types would fit.

Mogul 315's are protected lamps suitable for open fixtures.

Any Philips lamp that has an "O" in the part # is suitable for open fixtures, iirc.

http://www.lighting.philips.com/mai...m-elite-mw-mogul-base/928601176601_NA/product

 

[Browneyes1888]

hi guys im a euro grower and we have access to dimlux expert 315w cdm lights
they are expensive at £500 so like 800$ and was wondering if they can compete with 600w hps?
i grow in a 2mx2m tent with 4 600w hps lights and hit or nearly hit a gpw regular
ie 18-20oz per light
could a 315w cdm hit 15oz-20oz? or would it be too big a gap in wattage?
cheers for any advice

 

[Minion]

These lamps operate at much higher internal pressures than other HID lamps, with operating pressures ranging up to 2,500 psi or more. Although failures are infrequent, they do happen and when they do, the lamps grenade in spectacular fashion. This is the reason that there aren't higher-wattage lamps available - they haven't developed the materials to safely contain the pressure levels of a larger lamp.

I wouldn't use them that way on a bet.

I'm very lost on safety issues on CMH. Can you see the Sun System LEC sets having safety issues? Are the fixtures causing issues? In adequate cooling? Safeguards against failure? CFLs, LEDs, and the sun have been my only sources of light so far.

 

[rives]

hi guys im a euro grower and we have access to dimlux expert 315w cdm lights
they are expensive at £500 so like 800$ and was wondering if they can compete with 600w hps?
i grow in a 2mx2m tent with 4 600w hps lights and hit or nearly hit a gpw regular
ie 18-20oz per light
could a 315w cdm hit 15oz-20oz? or would it be too big a gap in wattage?
cheers for any advice

Properly dialed with the right strain and multiple lamps to eliminate shadowing, I would think that 15oz/light would be doable. 20oz/light raises the bar to about 1.8 grams/watt - maybe, but it would take a hell of a grower.

I'm very lost on safety issues on CMH. Can you see the Sun System LEC sets having safety issues? Are the fixtures causing issues? In adequate cooling? Safeguards against failure? CFLs, LEDs, and the sun have been my only sources of light so far.

The Sun fixtures should be fine if used with the double-jacket T12 lamps. The T12's have their own secondary containment and are intended to be used in open fixtures. The problem is with the T9 lamps - they only have a single glass shell, and are intended to be used exclusively in enclosed fixtures. If the Sun is properly built, the lamp socket that is used will eliminate the possibility of using the T9 lamps. The PGZX 18 socket is supposed to be used in open fixtures, and lamps with the PGZ 18 base will not fit in it.

 

[drakore]

PGZX18 sockets will hold T9 and T12 lamps. I have 4 of the sockets and my T9 lamps fit in without any issues.

 

[rives]

PGZX18 sockets will hold T9 and T12 lamps. I have 4 of the sockets and my T9 lamps fit in without any issues.

Unless the sockets are mis-manufactured, you have the PGZ 18 version - they will accept both lamps. The PGZX 18 are designed to only accept the bases with the the "X" suffix.

I have been unable to find any domestically-available PGZX 18 sockets in the US.

"MasterColor CDM Elite MW is equipped with a PGZ18 lamp base and holder). Protected lamps will be equipped with a PGZX18 base and holder."

"The cap-holder combination has a built-in “key” function to prevent misconnection. This ensures that open-rated luminaires that are equipped with a holder for protected lamps cannot be equipped with unprotected (/E rated) MasterColor CDM Elite MW lamps. Enclosed luminaires that are designed for use with unprotected (/E rated) lamps can be equipped with unprotected (/E rated) as well as protected (/O rated) MasterColor CDM Elite MW lamps."

From this Philips Design Guide, pages 15 - 16: http://www.lighting.philips.com/pwc...literature/downloads/elite_design_guidev7.pdf

 

[Ready4]

Hello ! Sunlight Supply replied to my email regarding their Sun System® LEC® 315 :

"Our LEC fixtures do not require or accept glass. The units are built with a socket that will only accept a double shielded protected lamp (the lamp itself has an extra glass jacket that acts as the glass lenses). This lamp is rated to be used in an open fixture and still meet all safety requirements.
Thanks for your inquiry"

Their fixture looks vertically tall in photos but stats show it to only have 9.6" in height.
Expensive ready-to-go system but dropping in price
http://growgreenmi.com/sun-system-lec315-120-volt-w-lamp for $435.73.

 

[xekki]

just a heads up, ordered again from ATL and all is well

cheers

 

[drakore]

Unless the sockets are mis-manufactured, you have the PGZ 18 version - they will accept both lamps. The PGZX 18 are designed to only accept the bases with the the "X" suffix.

I have been unable to find any domestically-available PGZX 18 sockets in the US.

"MasterColor CDM Elite MW is equipped with a PGZ18 lamp base and holder). Protected lamps will be equipped with a PGZX18 base and holder."

"The cap-holder combination has a built-in “key” function to prevent misconnection. This ensures that open-rated luminaires that are equipped with a holder for protected lamps cannot be equipped with unprotected (/E rated) MasterColor CDM Elite MW lamps. Enclosed luminaires that are designed for use with unprotected (/E rated) lamps can be equipped with unprotected (/E rated) as well as protected (/O rated) MasterColor CDM Elite MW lamps."

From this Philips Design Guide, pages 15 - 16: http://www.lighting.philips.com/pwc...literature/downloads/elite_design_guidev7.pdf

Sorry you're right. I forgot which ones I actually ordered in the end.

Yeah I believe the PGZX18 sockets I was looking at came from Germany. I ended up ordering the PGZ18 sockets from Semperlite.

 

[Jhhnn]

Hello ! Sunlight Supply replied to my email regarding their Sun System® LEC® 315 :

"Our LEC fixtures do not require or accept glass. The units are built with a socket that will only accept a double shielded protected lamp (the lamp itself has an extra glass jacket that acts as the glass lenses). This lamp is rated to be used in an open fixture and still meet all safety requirements.
Thanks for your inquiry"

Their fixture looks vertically tall in photos but stats show it to only have 9.6" in height.
Expensive ready-to-go system but dropping in price
http://growgreenmi.com/sun-system-lec315-120-volt-w-lamp for $435.73.

I'm pleased that they use PGZX18 lampholders, also that they went to the trouble to obtain CE & UL ratings. I'm sure that having the right lampholder was essential.

It's easy for tinkerers & DIY'ers to overlook the importance of that in consumer products. Yeh, sure, I can use PGZ lampholders in a homemade setup because I know the details, know not to use t9 lamps. Retail buyers don't necessarily know that at all, so it's important that their choices be limited to what's idiot proof. They'll use any lamp that fits.

Similar issues exist wrt using MH lamps in open fixtures at the usual wattages. Nearly all grow light mogul sockets are of the closed fixture type, even in open fixtures so that they'll accommodate HPS lamps. MH lamps intended only for closed fixtures fit & fire right up using a switchable ballast or conversion lamps.

Explosive failure & fire are rare enough that few growers are aware of the possibilities. I'm guilty of that myself, having used unprotected MH lamps in open fixtures before I knew any better. It's a risk none of us should take knowingly. It's too easy to avoid.

 

[lazi]

Thanks Jhhnn for the reply. The adjust a wings + 315s are for a newbie friend so I'm being over cautious before advising him to get the same bulbs/ballasts as me.

1) I know that the heat from different bulbs can be in different places but if a setup can handle the heat from a number of 600w hps lights, then it can handle the heat from twice as many 315w lights, yes? (Ballasts outside of grow area.)

2) I'm building a grow tunnel, similar to the original keef treez design except dtw instead of swc. Was going to be 4 x 8 with 3 x 400w CMH but now I'm going for 4 x 10 with 4 x 315w 942 Moguls.

The original used horizontal bulbs. I'm having trouble deciding on horizontal or (overhead) vertical, I can make the 'roof' suitable for either.

Thoughts anyone?

 

[lazi]

Forgot to add:

Has anyone found a European supplier of the Philips 315 ballasts or Mogul bulbs?

 

[Jhhnn]

Thanks Jhhnn for the reply. The adjust a wings + 315s are for a newbie friend so I'm being over cautious before advising him to get the same bulbs/ballasts as me.

1) I know that the heat from different bulbs can be in different places but if a setup can handle the heat from a number of 600w hps lights, then it can handle the heat from twice as many 315w lights, yes? (Ballasts outside of grow area.)

2) I'm building a grow tunnel, similar to the original keef treez design except dtw instead of swc. Was going to be 4 x 8 with 3 x 400w CMH but now I'm going for 4 x 10 with 4 x 315w 942 Moguls.

The original used horizontal bulbs. I'm having trouble deciding on horizontal or (overhead) vertical, I can make the 'roof' suitable for either.

Thoughts anyone?

It's so close to a wash that it might as well be seen that way.

The same cooling system should work either way unless it's really marginal.

Everybody sees it differently, but I'm not a fan of open lamps because nasty contact burns are instantaneous. Might even set a person's hair on fire for all I know. That's more or less important depending on grow space configuration. I've also come to like 2 stage cooling for a lot of reasons, impossible w/ open lamps.

If horizontal lamps reduce the chances of accidental contact, I'd go that way.

 

[lazi]

I've never had accidental contact with a bulb. With scrogs, almost all of the plant touching is below the screen.

Not sure what 2 stage cooling is but if it involves a/c, that isn't going to happen (much) in the UK.

A grow tunnel is basically a very large (size of the grow space) air cooled hood that has the plants growing inside it. Has some sliding doors to allow access to the plants.

It's so close to a wash that it might as well be seen that way.

I'm not sure what that means or what it relates to.

 

[Jhhnn]

I've never had accidental contact with a bulb. With scrogs, almost all of the plant touching is below the screen.

Not sure what 2 stage cooling is but if it involves a/c, that isn't going to happen (much) in the UK.

A grow tunnel is basically a very large (size of the grow space) air cooled hood that has the plants growing inside it. Has some sliding doors to allow access to the plants.

It's so close to a wash that it might as well be seen that way.

I'm not sure what that means or what it relates to.

Two stage cooling-

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=112862

There are variants, obviously, but air used to cool the lamps doesn't need a carbon scrubber. Flow restriction is small, meaning a quieter fan. Air passing thru the growth chamber needs odor control, but that flow can be much lower w/ a very low noise fan & smaller scrubber.

Saying it's a wash is a figure of speech. It means there's insignificant difference. It was in reference to the heat of three 400w systems vs the heat of four 315 systems.