Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

Unclecrash · Sep 6, 2015

I just temped in my first one and fired it up man this this is BRITE next to my 600 it looks like the 600 plant is in the dark compared to it. I have a problem I went and bought a cheap timer and now it wont fire does this 315 need a lot of time to cool before restarting? Reason I ask is it wont fire on the timer or direct into the wall plug and it was just working . Hope it didnt croak . I also noticed the bulb from bulb america first time I fired it it was already a few black spots on the ball part of the light.

Avenger · Sep 6, 2015

Make certain the dip switches are in the proper position.

If I remember correctly the Philips ballast has a built in 10 or 15 minute time delay to prevent hot restrikes.

Unclecrash · Sep 6, 2015

Avenger said:
Make certain the dip switches are in the proper position.

If I remember correctly the Philips ballast has a built in 10 or 15 minute time delay to prevent hot restrikes.

Your right it was just needing to sit a few more minutes, when I went back down it had been 10 or so minutes and it fired right up. Cant wait for the second to arrive so I can figure how Im going to hang them on the wall on a piece of sheet metal.

el6magiko · Sep 6, 2015

hi guys i have one question if anyone can help,are you aware of any fake master colours 930 or 342,because i ordered 3 of them 2x942 and 1 930,first two says made in usa and 2nd one made in china?but i cant find any real photos of them just stock?can anyone upload photo of their so i can see the difference if one please?thank you good luck and peace

Jhhnn · Sep 6, 2015

el6magiko said:
hi guys i have one question if anyone can help,are you aware of any fake master colours 930 or 342,because i ordered 3 of them 2x942 and 1 930,first two says made in usa and 2nd one made in china?but i cant find any real photos of them just stock?can anyone upload photo of their so i can see the difference if one please?thank you good luck and peace

Philips is a giant multinational company with manufacturing plants all over the world. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if they make CDM lamps in more than one country. My CDM ELITE MW 315/T9/930/U/E lamps are made in the USA.

el6magiko · Sep 6, 2015

Thanks jhhnn,i was thinking about that myself but still need some comparison i already contacted philips waiting for their answer where to send photos,lamp is wierd compared to other tho,box is bigger but no spelling errors or something on it exactly the same but bigger,bulb was even packaged safer in cardboard,but then is this made in china sign and hg symbol is not in the middle of circle,and the last and most fishy thing for me is some kind of white paste which looks like as is used to glue lamp to base,the other two are perfect wierd,would upload but dont know where to save photos to link,sorry for long post but i think if there are fakes out there you should know because bulbs are not cheap,ill let you know what will philips say..good night to ya all

TerpeneDream · Sep 6, 2015

Is anyone mixing CMH and Metal Halide?

I started with a Sunsystem 630 LEC. It was bullshit. Went to a 1000w MH Hortilux blue, and my plants are starting to grow!

Wondering…is anyone haven good resulting mixing lights?

If not, these LEC's are gone..

Jhhnn · Sep 7, 2015

TerpeneDream said:
Is anyone mixing CMH and Metal Halide?

I started with a Sunsystem 630 LEC. It was bullshit. Went to a 1000w MH Hortilux blue, and my plants are starting to grow!

Wondering…is anyone haven good resulting mixing lights?

If not, these LEC's are gone..

That's contrary to my personal experience. I transplanted 30 day old seedlings yesterday & they were of comparable size for their age to ones I grew previously under a 1000w dual arc lamp. Same soil, same beer cups, same distance from the lamp.

For me, anyway, it's so far, so good.

40AmpstoFreedom · Sep 7, 2015

What was environment like? Possible heat issues from the LEC not bein air cooled and all? I ran into serious heat issues with my gavitas. Big change in heat from 3k watt hps air cooled to damn 3 600 gavitas...Whole reason I had purchased them was to fuckin save power and people saying they ran much cooler; canopy temperature said otherwise and so did my plants.

dyna mo humm · Sep 7, 2015

TerpeneDream said:
Is anyone mixing CMH and Metal Halide?

I started with a Sunsystem 630 LEC. It was bullshit. Went to a 1000w MH Hortilux blue, and my plants are starting to grow!

Wondering…is anyone haven good resulting mixing lights?

If not, these LEC's are gone..

Wanna sell it?

TerpeneDream · Sep 7, 2015

YES. I have a 630 with a month of 18/6 on it…and a 315 with a week. The 630 cost me $800, and the $315 was $450. I'm looking for $700 and $400, respectively. Thanks

40AmpstoFreedom · Sep 8, 2015

TerpeneDream said:
YES. I have a 630 with a month of 18/6 on it…and a 315 with a week. The 630 cost me $800, and the $315 was $450. I'm looking for $700 and $400, respectively. Thanks

Heh, this is exactly how I feel about my Gavita's. Waste of 2 grand. Starting to wonder if I should just wait on these and go back what fuckin works and can be cooled...HPS. I hear people in this thread say these CMH run way cooler (heard the same thing in gavitas) but then I hear StrainMan in raredankness forum say his run wat for watt as hot as HPS. Gavitas turned out hotter than my 1ks that are air cooled and the Gavitas are 600's...

Jhhnn · Sep 8, 2015

40AmpstoFreedom said:
Heh, this is exactly how I feel about my Gavita's. Waste of 2 grand. Starting to wonder if I should just wait on these and go back what fuckin works and can be cooled...HPS. I hear people in this thread say these CMH run way cooler (heard the same thing in gavitas) but then I hear StrainMan in raredankness forum say his run wat for watt as hot as HPS. Gavitas turned out hotter than my 1ks that are air cooled and the Gavitas are 600's...

Watt for watt? Of course the heat output is the same because watts are a measure of heat. Where CMH excels is at putting that radiant energy at wavelengths plants can use.

I get where you're coming from wrt fan cooled enclosed reflectors, for sure. Oddly enough, I think they're less effective at heat shedding w/ CMH than w/ HPS because of spectral distribution. HPS has a huge energy spike in the infrared & aluminum doesn't reflect well at that wavelength.

http://www.cycloptics.com/sites/default/files/USU_spectral_analysis.pdf

http://opticalreferencelab.com/calibrated-specular-reflectance-standards/

More of the total radiant energy is absorbed by the reflector than w/ CMH. That becomes convective heat to be removed in the airstream thru the reflector.

When I converted my supersun 2 to 630w the delta T of the air thru the reflector fell considerably more than the temp in the enclosure apparently just for that reason. There's less energy wasted in the infrared & a higher % radiated into the enclosure as visible usable light.

OTOH, power consumption is down by 460w, 680w vs the previous 1140w. Growth seems to be on a par with my previous 1000w dual arc lamp but I'm only a month into my first seedlings. If this will grow nearly as well I'll be happy because I didn't need more production but rather less power consumption, less total heat & less fan noise. What we don't smoke is gifted to others.

It's a little strange that nobody is producing an air coolable PGZ 315 or 630w system. It's easy enough to achieve plug and play using mogul 315's in conventional reflectors & Wellthink ballasts- you just need more of 'em. With Philips or Ceramatec ballasts you need to do some wiring & also need a converter for 120v operation.

40AmpstoFreedom · Sep 8, 2015

I wonder if the reason no one makes an air cooled is that the bulb maybe performs better hotter like the gavitas? No idea on that though. If the watts are really down that low and still producing comparatively to hps then I will give it a try. Wish I could sell my gavitas to try these.

Scrappy-doo · Sep 9, 2015

3 x 315's for me ran about as hot as my air cooled 1k hps but the coverage doubled.

Jhhnn · Sep 9, 2015

40AmpstoFreedom said:
I wonder if the reason no one makes an air cooled is that the bulb maybe performs better hotter like the gavitas? No idea on that though. If the watts are really down that low and still producing comparatively to hps then I will give it a try. Wish I could sell my gavitas to try these.

I don't pretend to understand gavitas much at all except that I know they're gas filled to help cool the emitter, transfer heat to the envelope. That apparently works well enough that forced air cooling cools the emitter too much. They're really designed for high ceiling environments like greenhouses & warehouses.

All of the other lamps commonly used including CMH operate under vacuum inside the lamp envelope. Basically, the only convective heat they produce is from capture of mostly ultraviolet photons by the envelope. Envelope temperature does not affect emitter operation.

HUGE · Sep 9, 2015

Jhhnn said:
I don't pretend to understand gavitas much at all except that I know they're gas filled to help cool the emitter, transfer heat to the envelope. That apparently works well enough that forced air cooling cools the emitter too much. They're really designed for high ceiling environments like greenhouses & warehouses.

All of the other lamps commonly used including CMH operate under vacuum inside the lamp envelope. Basically, the only convective heat they produce is from capture of mostly ultraviolet photons by the envelope. Envelope temperature does not affect emitter operation.

John is there an envelope that does not have this UV absorbent coating and also a PGZ base?

Jhhnn · Sep 9, 2015

HUGE said:
John is there an envelope that does not have this UV absorbent coating and also a PGZ base?

I doubt it. CDM lamps are designed for lighting living spaces where UV is undesirable both for people's eyes & for fabrics & painted surfaces that UV deteriorates.

UV blocking is inherent & intentional in the composition of the glass used for the envelope.

weedlover_89 · Sep 9, 2015

Hello, very interesting thread, Rives opens our eyes once more! I have been able to find only the 4200 K version in my country. Is that ballast ok to run it?

http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/lighting-electronics/hid/hid-electronic-outdoor/primavision-for-cdm-elite-mw/913700639466_EU/product

I guess the 4200 k version of the bulb can be used vertically bare bulb too?

Thank you :tiphat:

Weed Killer · Sep 9, 2015

40AmpstoFreedom said:
I wonder if the reason no one makes an air cooled is that the bulb maybe performs better hotter like the gavitas? No idea on that though. If the watts are really down that low and still producing comparatively to hps then I will give it a try. Wish I could sell my gavitas to try these.

The new hydrofarm reflectors I just got have an air cooling kit sold separately https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/PHR3150CKT

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