Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

[Zeez]

You use 120v, I use 240v they dont make a surge for 240v that I can find. I'm pretty sure if I could stagger power on for the lights it would fix the problem. The old Phantom 315 doesn't have this issue. Thats what in now. The new 1 will be used in veg if it doesn't continue to do it.

None of the 315 ballast do this except the Phantom II 315. All have this over/under voltage protection is standard if im not mistaken. I think this 1 is to sensitive of faulty.


M flower room has its own dedicated 60a circuit.

I use this Isobar on the120v side.
View Image

This one is 2KW and away overkill, but the voltage is right. It would probably do six lights.

 

[Hammerhead]

This Phantom II 315 is defective. It would not fire on a 120v circuit with nothing else on it. The bulb would flash then nothing happens. resting the power just makes it flash again. Its going back.

 

[Zeez]

This Phantom II 315 is defective. It would not fire on a 120v circuit with nothing else on it. The bulb would flash then nothing happens. resting the power just makes it flash again. Its going back.

That sucks.

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

That sucks.

Just one report of this right? Soon I have to make a pretty big decision drop 6-7g's on LED's or 3-4 on these...The new LED's in Krunch's thread look fantastic but I know the yield will most likely not compare but the energy/heat and long term savings is just too much to ignore. I don't know I find my self bouncing back and forth unable to make a solid decision.

 

[rives]

The new LED's in Krunch's thread look fantastic but I know the yield will most likely not compare but the energy/heat and long term savings is just too much to ignore.

Perhaps I am missing something here, but it seems to me that if your yield is down, any "savings" on power are illusory. Just think how much you could save if you didn't grow at all.....

Seriously, I would build a spreadsheet and calculate the ROI. If your initial investment with LEDs is double and the yield drops appreciably, then any potential savings move much further into the future. The longevity of the LEDs is a factor, but having chased LED tech for quite a while, I found that the temptation to buy the latest improvement kicked in way before I realized any savings from avoiding any re-lamping costs. As I've mentioned before, I found it easier cool my grow areas with the 315's than LED's because the hoods the heat could be directly ducted out of the tents. YMMV, good luck.

 

[krunchbubble]

Just one report of this right? Soon I have to make a pretty big decision drop 6-7g's on LED's or 3-4 on these...The new LED's in Krunch's thread look fantastic but I know the yield will most likely not compare but the energy/heat and long term savings is just too much to ignore. I don't know I find my self bouncing back and forth unable to make a solid decision.

Perhaps I am missing something here, but it seems to me that if your yield is down, any "savings" on power are illusory. Just think how much you could save if you didn't grow at all.....

Seriously, I would build a spreadsheet and calculate the ROI. If your initial investment with LEDs is double and the yield drops appreciably, then any potential savings move much further into the future. The longevity of the LEDs is a factor, but having chased LED tech for quite a while, I found that the temptation to buy the latest improvement kicked in way before I realized any savings from avoiding any re-lamping costs. As I've mentioned before, I found it easier cool my grow areas with the 315's than LED's because the hoods the heat could be directly ducted out of the tents. YMMV, good luck.

Just wait guys! Much better results here soon

 

[Zeez]

Just one report of this right? Soon I have to make a pretty big decision drop 6-7g's on LED's or 3-4 on these...The new LED's in Krunch's thread look fantastic but I know the yield will most likely not compare but the energy/heat and long term savings is just too much to ignore. I don't know I find my self bouncing back and forth unable to make a solid decision.

I have 2 Phantom II CMH. I had the same problem with these and contacted Hydrofarm. They agreed with the troubleshooting and that it was likely a problem with the electrical supply fluctuating with high demand for air conditioning. I installed a Tripp Lite line conditioner and have not had any further problems.

I had the first generation Phantom CMH lights replaced by Hydrofarm. They called the dealer and took care of everything. I had new lights from the dealer an hour after calling Hydrofarm.

The payoff with LEDs isn't really there until you get the five years out of the lights without failure.

 

[Hammerhead]

Unfortunately I'm not experiencing the same return results. I won't have a replacement ballast for at least a week. I have to mail the defective ballast back to Hydrofarm(my cost) Wait for the replacement to arrive. None of the other Ballast have this issue including the old style Phantom 315. Would I buy another Phantom Ballast no.. They cost about 40$ more than a Prism 315. I have more of these on the way.

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

The payoff with LEDs isn't really there until you get the five years out of the lights without failure.

Yeah, its definitely a long term outlook. If I went LED I have to purchase half the lights I need for space due to startup cost so I also have to factor in less production as a result. LED's main draw for me is the versatility. You can hook that shit up anywhere and be set...Closet, house, warehouse, trunk of a car lol. I just really like the idea of no more ventilation tubes or holes in places I don't want them. But the start up cost is definitely a huge setback for a lot of people and the only ones worth buying on the market right now are brand new and barely tested at large with a not so great warranty. I love that we have new toys to try out I just hate having to make a decision in this case which I am usually pretty good at. It is definitely a five year outlook when purchasing lights and to start I am only purchasing 1/3 or half of either type than what I want for the place I am putting them until they prove themselves to me in the grow room.

Perhaps I am missing something here, but it seems to me that if your yield is down, any "savings" on power are illusory. Just think how much you could save if you didn't grow at all.....

Seriously, I would build a spreadsheet and calculate the ROI. If your initial investment with LEDs is double and the yield drops appreciably, then any potential savings move much further into the future. The longevity of the LEDs is a factor, but having chased LED tech for quite a while, I found that the temptation to buy the latest improvement kicked in way before I realized any savings from avoiding any re-lamping costs. As I've mentioned before, I found it easier cool my grow areas with the 315's than LED's because the hoods the heat could be directly ducted out of the tents. YMMV, good luck.

In this case I am gladly willing to take bit less yield per sq ft and simply purchase more lights to make up for it since the floor plan isn't really limited and I am no longer doing anything with tents just large rooms. We will see tho there is definitely a lot to consider on both sides of the equation.

 

[rives]

40 Amps, it sounds like you are relying heavily on the LEDs not making much heat. In actuality, LEDs are only a couple of percent more efficient than 315's at best, so that couple of percent is all the heat savings that you get - what doesn't get converted to light gets converted to heat. If you have to boost the number of fixtures used to get the same yield, then the marginal heat savings will be lost. There is a substantial difference between LEDs and HPS because of the way that IR works, but it's not much of an issue with CMH.

Another thing that you might want to consider is fan noise. My home-made fixtures weren't too bad, but the commercial LED units that I used sounded like those fan-forced hand dryers. I couldn't get far enough away from them in my house to muffle the racket, and multiple units would have been impossible to live with. It may not be a factor for you, but they were a hell of a long way from stealthy.

 

[krunchbubble]

Yeah, its definitely a long term outlook. If I went LED I have to purchase half the lights I need for space due to startup cost so I also have to factor in less production as a result. LED's main draw for me is the versatility. You can hook that shit up anywhere and be set...Closet, house, warehouse, trunk of a car lol. I just really like the idea of no more ventilation tubes or holes in places I don't want them. But the start up cost is definitely a huge setback for a lot of people and the only ones worth buying on the market right now are brand new and barely tested at large with a not so great warranty. I love that we have new toys to try out I just hate having to make a decision in this case which I am usually pretty good at. It is definitely a five year outlook when purchasing lights and to start I am only purchasing 1/3 or half of either type than what I want for the place I am putting them until they prove themselves to me in the grow room.



In this case I am gladly willing to take bit less yield per sq ft and simply purchase more lights to make up for it since the floor plan isn't really limited and I am no longer doing anything with tents just large rooms. We will see tho there is definitely a lot to consider on both sides of the equation.

40 Amps, it sounds like you are relying heavily on the LEDs not making much heat. In actuality, LEDs are only a couple of percent more efficient than 315's at best, so that couple of percent is all the heat savings that you get - what doesn't get converted to light gets converted to heat. If you have to boost the number of fixtures used to get the same yield, then the marginal heat savings will be lost. There is a substantial difference between LEDs and HPS because of the way that IR works, but it's not much of an issue with CMH.

Another thing that you might want to consider is fan noise. My home-made fixtures weren't too bad, but the commercial LED units that I used sounded like those fan-forced hand dryers. I couldn't get far enough away from them in my house to muffle the racket, and multiple units would have been impossible to live with. It may not be a factor for you, but they were a hell of a long way from stealthy.

The distinct advantage I see with CMH is the white spectrum and of course its initial cost. The spectrum is what I and others think may have been the downfall of my LED test...

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

40 Amps, it sounds like you are relying heavily on the LEDs not making much heat. In actuality, LEDs are only a couple of percent more efficient than 315's at best, so that couple of percent is all the heat savings that you get - what doesn't get converted to light gets converted to heat. If you have to boost the number of fixtures used to get the same yield, then the marginal heat savings will be lost. There is a substantial difference between LEDs and HPS because of the way that IR works, but it's not much of an issue with CMH.

Another thing that you might want to consider is fan noise. My home-made fixtures weren't too bad, but the commercial LED units that I used sounded like those fan-forced hand dryers. I couldn't get far enough away from them in my house to muffle the racket, and multiple units would have been impossible to live with. It may not be a factor for you, but they were a hell of a long way from stealthy.

Yeah I would definitely not even think of using any of the older tech with the fans they had and shit for led. Not sure if you followed any of the new stuff but this is the only LED I have ever even considered purchasing since my dabbling with it a few years ago. The flipchip tech is also pretty revolutionary.

http://www.starlite-led.com/

4 of their 300's raised the heat only 10 degrees in a tent krunch was running. His yield was a little off but it was also his first run with them. The start up cost for any decent size grow is the value of a car though lol. Granite you could buy several on down the road with the end product it still makes anyone fiscally responsible whence a bit.

You make some good points about the heat and I really appreciate everyone's feedback and the whole thread really.


EDIT:


Now for a question I do not remember seeing in this thread an answer to. So I see sunsystem now has air cooled available...

http://growershouse.com/sun-system-lec-630-air-cooled-8-in-fixture-120-volt-w-4200k-lamps-cmh

However, I also see that they are dual lamps. Is there a benefit to this at all? If you click on the 240 volt model it has a video showing the size of the reflector which is actually pretty damn big. Does it give a bigger footprint or something? My plan is for phantoms if I do go the LEC route since they are hundred bucks cheaper 300 watts but it is good to see sunsystem finally putting out an air cooled as well.

 

[rives]

The distinct advantage I see with CMH is the white spectrum and of course its initial cost. The spectrum is what I and others think may have been the downfall of my LED test...

Absolutely. I hated the martian glow of my red/blue fixture and having to have another light source to actually see what the hell was going on with my plants. The white LEDs, particularly the COB-style, are the only ones that I would even consider.

Yeah I would definitely not even think of using any of the older tech with the fans they had and shit for led. Not sure if you followed any of the new stuff but this is the only LED I have ever even considered purchasing since my dabbling with it a few years ago. The flipchip tech is also pretty revolutionary.

http://www.starlite-led.com/

4 of their 300's raised the heat only 10 degrees in a tent krunch was running. His yield was a little off but it was also his first run with them. The start up cost for any decent size grow is the value of a car though lol. Granite you could buy several on down the road with the end product it still makes anyone fiscally responsible whence a bit.

You make some good points about the heat and I really appreciate everyone's feedback and the whole thread really.

EDIT:


Now for a question I do not remember seeing in this thread an answer to. So I see sunsystem now has air cooled available...

http://growershouse.com/sun-system-lec-630-air-cooled-8-in-fixture-120-volt-w-4200k-lamps-cmh

However, I also see that they are dual lamps. Is there a benefit to this at all? If you click on the 240 volt model it has a video showing the size of the reflector which is actually pretty damn big. Does it give a bigger footprint or something? My plan is for phantoms if I do go the LEC route since they are hundred bucks cheaper 300 watts but it is good to see sunsystem finally putting out an air cooled as well.

Thanks for the link. No, I haven't been following recent developments since I went with CMH, and my wallet is much happier as a result!

The dual lamp fixtures/reflectors have always put me off because of the inevitable hot spots and variations in brightness from overlap. I assume that the big LEC has a larger footprint, but cannot speak from experience.

 

[krunchbubble]

Now for a question I do not remember seeing in this thread an answer to. So I see sunsystem now has air cooled available...

http://growershouse.com/sun-system-lec-630-air-cooled-8-in-fixture-120-volt-w-4200k-lamps-cmh

However, I also see that they are dual lamps. Is there a benefit to this at all? If you click on the 240 volt model it has a video showing the size of the reflector which is actually pretty damn big. Does it give a bigger footprint or something? My plan is for phantoms if I do go the LEC route since they are hundred bucks cheaper 300 watts but it is good to see sunsystem finally putting out an air cooled as well.

Have a friend absolutely slaying it, in a tent with these air cooled 630's......

 

[Hammerhead]

Absolutely. I hated the martian glow of my red/blue fixture and having to have another light source to actually see what the hell was going on with my plants. The white LEDs, particularly the COB-style, are the only ones that I would even consider.



Thanks for the link. No, I haven't been following recent developments since I went with CMH, and my wallet is much happier as a result!

The dual lamp fixtures/reflectors have always put me off because of the inevitable hot spots and variations in brightness from overlap. I assume that the big LEC has a larger footprint, but cannot speak from experience.

Agree 100%. I wont even consider LED until there full spectrum white just like CDM.


I use a LEC 630. Knowing what I now know I would not get another. The SS LEC is a heavy SOB. It limits mounting options. I would get 2 single 315 for a 5x5 tent. It will cover better then a single 630 IMO

 

[navjon]

Hi i am pretty keen on making the switch from 2x 600W HPS in a 1.4m x 1.4m to 4 x 315W CDM can you blokes tell me how you think this would go do you think it would be over kill for the area.
Cheer

 

[cannaisok]

3x 315 is much, 4x 315 on this space is wasted energy in my eyes. have a friend using 2x 210w in 1.2x1.2m and its really ok.. the 210 has a nice and cool 2,5x2,5coverage and does very good on 2x2 for flower(much better than a 250w hps, little less intensity from a 400W but heat still from a 210w device)

 

[Hammerhead]

Prism got here today. here is what it looks like.. Comes with both 120/240v cords.. I have 2 of these, 2 Phantoms(1 broke) 1 Welthink and 1 LEC 630..

 

[willowz]

If I were going to buy any commercial CMH ballasts I think I would go with SunPlix. I like their technology preserving bulb life.

Still, I don't think there's a more sensible option than to go with the industrial Philips setups due to convenience of wiring, using a transformer (interchangeable parts in case something fails instead of the whole unit), and longevity.

 

[Hammerhead]

If your going to use a Philips on 240v you do not need a transformer.

SunPlix is not worth the price they charge. There is nothing special about there ballast. Never seen inside a sunplix or [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Philips [/FONT] . I doubt there is anything a normal user could replace in side one most digital are encased in epoxy.