Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

[Zeez]

Things have changed a lot over the last year, from when Rives started this thread and even more since the other huge CMH thread began way back in 2007, long before I became a member in 2013.

A year ago, 315 tech wasn't really widely available except for DIY purposes. All lamps were Philips, ballasts other than theirs were hard to come by, & only the wellthinks operated at 120v.

DIY is still a good way to go but the availability of reasonably priced hardware like the Phantoms really changes the whole thing, particularly for people who don't have 240v readily available. It's good to hear about you positive experience with the hardware & their customer support.

Even though it won't make as big a difference as w/ HPS the ability to run enclosed w/ air cooling is also a very good thing in some circumstances.

As a new grower, now four weeks into first bloom, the three closest shops tried to sell me HPS and knew nothing about CMH. This was three months ago. Reading these threads (from the beginning) was convincing that this is now the way to go. Not too long ago it looked like you had to be an EE to make it happen. I just wanted to widen the range of the conversation to be helpful to anyone new thinking about CMH.

Great thread. Thanks.

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

The mixed gavita LEC wharehouse is coming down. So far bud is good, weight is heavy, but fox tailing in heavy light areas. Pics, lab results and weights to come.

Cool, I cant wait to see the results.

I for one havent seen the LEC cause any foxtails yet. The density is good. But I'm just running just LEC.

 

[Jhhnn]

I just took some temp readings from the Phatom 315 and Prism Lighting Science 315 Ballast's running off 120v.. Temps taken using IR gun. Phantom is way way hot. I cant touch it. I'm going to my local store tomorrow to order a Phantom II.

Phantom-130-136f

Prism Lighting Science- 118-126

Ballast case temperature differences from one brand to another aren't really indicative of much of anything. What is indicative is power draw at the receptacle. If the lamp output is the same but one ballast draws more power than the other then it's less efficient.

Measuring the power draw of a 120v ballast is easy with a kill a watt meter. Measuring the square wave output to the lamp & hence its brightness requires a meter more sophisticated than my old Fluke 83. It's probably very slight from one brand to another, anyway. The difference between the two is inefficiency expressed as heat.

The great thing about 315's is that they're easily the most efficient HID light source currently available so minor differences in ballasts won't overcome that huge initial advantage. A few watts either way doesn't matter much.

The price of plug & play CDM systems has come down considerably & the price of conversion of a 400w HPS system is very attractive- a new ballast & new mogul base 315 lamp will easily outgrow a 400w HPS while reducing the power bill.

 

[Hammerhead]

I only care about the heat. I cant touch the Phantom, it would burn me.. I can hold the Ceramic Science. To me that's a big deal. I'm told the new Phantom II don't get as hot?. The more heat the less I like it.

 

[Zeez]

 

[Zeez]

Ballast case temperature differences from one brand to another aren't really indicative of much of anything. What is indicative is power draw at the receptacle. If the lamp output is the same but one ballast draws more power than the other then it's less efficient.

Measuring the power draw of a 120v ballast is easy with a kill a watt meter. Measuring the square wave output to the lamp & hence its brightness requires a meter more sophisticated than my old Fluke 83. It's probably very slight from one brand to another, anyway. The difference between the two is inefficiency expressed as heat.

The great thing about 315's is that they're easily the most efficient HID light source currently available so minor differences in ballasts won't overcome that huge initial advantage. A few watts either way doesn't matter much.

The price of plug & play CDM systems has come down considerably & the price of conversion of a 400w HPS system is very attractive- a new ballast & new mogul base 315 lamp will easily outgrow a 400w HPS while reducing the power bill.

Jhhnn, As well as the lamp's brightness, there seems to be a range of optimal watts per square foot. I tortured a donor mutt to see how close the plant could be and it seems to be about 5 inches. During veg, growth was outstanding at about 30" with good node spacing. Using flood & drain in a tent I now don't have allot of headroom left (third week of bloom) The plants seem pretty happy at 12" although there is a noticeable shortening of node spacing. The buds are looking great. It seems to me that the bulbs create less heat and thus allow the plant to get closer without burn while still developing normally.

It might be necessary to super crop again getting short on headroom. I wanted to avoid doing this being half way through the bloom. Being a new guy I'm not really sure about this.

 

[P-NUT]

So Ive tried the conversion kit from cycloptics with a old super sun 2 hood with the glass taken out and hung it in the middle of 4 600w hps's and noticed a definite boost in smell and everything seems oilier. Ive got a spot thats height restricted its only 6' tall but its 20x8 and Im wanting to set it up. Plywood walls for now but was gonna paint them flat white and was thinking of ordering a bunch of the philips/advanced ballast and the pgz sockets and going bare bulb with the socket mounted vertical to the ceiling? Im not an electrician but it seems doable from what Ive seen. Would that being mounted to plywood be a fire hazard? Any ideas greatly appreciated.

 

[Jhhnn]

I only care about the heat. I cant touch the Phantom, it would burn me.. I can hold the Ceramic Science. To me that's a big deal. I'm told the new Phantom II don't get as hot?. The more heat the less I like it.

Some ballast case designs dissipate heat better so they run cooler to the touch. That doesn't mean the total heat output is less.

 

[Jhhnn]

Jhhnn, As well as the lamp's brightness, there seems to be a range of optimal watts per square foot. I tortured a donor mutt to see how close the plant could be and it seems to be about 5 inches. During veg, growth was outstanding at about 30" with good node spacing. Using flood & drain in a tent I now don't have allot of headroom left (third week of bloom) The plants seem pretty happy at 12" although there is a noticeable shortening of node spacing. The buds are looking great. It seems to me that the bulbs create less heat and thus allow the plant to get closer without burn while still developing normally.

It might be necessary to super crop again getting short on headroom. I wanted to avoid doing this being half way through the bloom. Being a new guy I'm not really sure about this.

It's best not to trim the tops several weeks into flowering. Tie them over so they're growing sideways if they're getting too close to the light. Most strains are largely over the stretching phase a month or so into it.

I just grow for family & friends, refuse to enter into cannabis commerce so I'm not as concerned about yield as some growers. I flower when the plants are 15" or so, usually at 5-6 weeks from seed, end up with plants that are usually 42" or so. Some varieties come out shorter & can be vegged longer. I've also had a few stretch monsters with very long internodes. The one in the back of this pic had to be tied over-

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=52773&pictureid=1515228

 

[rives]

Some ballast case designs dissipate heat better so they run cooler to the touch. That doesn't mean the total heat output is less.

True as far as it goes, with the caveat that the ballast is healthy. However, the cooler running one is almost certain to last longer.

 

[Zeez]

It's best not to trim the tops several weeks into flowering. Tie them over so they're growing sideways if they're getting too close to the light. Most strains are largely over the stretching phase a month or so into it.

I just grow for family & friends, refuse to enter into cannabis commerce so I'm not as concerned about yield as some growers. I flower when the plants are 15" or so, usually at 5-6 weeks from seed, end up with plants that are usually 42" or so. Some varieties come out shorter & can be vegged longer. I've also had a few stretch monsters with very long internodes. The one in the back of this pic had to be tied over-

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=52773&pictureid=1515228

Thanks. Good advice. I'm in the same boat, just for myself and a few friends.

 

[Hammerhead]

Some ballast case designs dissipate heat better so they run cooler to the touch. That doesn't mean the total heat output is less.

I have to go with what I can measure and feel. Its very obvious to me the phantom runs hotter.

 

[Centrum]

Can someone tell me the difference between the 315's and the 400cmh that htgsupply sells?
are the 315 superior to the 400watt version or is htgsupply just selling a lamp and calling it CMH ??

Would really love to know, the price difference is nearly half the cost

 

[Jhhnn]

Can someone tell me the difference between the 315's and the 400cmh that htgsupply sells?
are the 315 superior to the 400watt version or is htgsupply just selling a lamp and calling it CMH ??

Would really love to know, the price difference is nearly half the cost

They're apparently a good system. Some discussion over here-

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=317181

The Philips 315 system represents the state of the art in broad spectrum HID lighting. They're easily the most efficient alternative in terms of operating costs & heat dissipation. Infrared output is also low meaning plants can be healthy close to the light in low overhead situations. Depending on your electric rate they'll put you ahead at some point despite the high cost up front.

If you've never done this before & don't know if it's something you want to keep doing then the HTG wouldn't be a bad place to start at all. Philips offered a similar conversion lamp that growers really liked prior to discontinuing it. There's a huge & informative thread about CMH in general over here-

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=72215

 

[Centrum]

They're apparently a good system. Some discussion over here-

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=317181

The Philips 315 system represents the state of the art in broad spectrum HID lighting. They're easily the most efficient alternative in terms of operating costs & heat dissipation. Infrared output is also low meaning plants can be healthy close to the light in low overhead situations. Depending on your electric rate they'll put you ahead at some point despite the high cost up front.

If you've never done this before & don't know if it's something you want to keep doing then the HTG wouldn't be a bad place to start at all. Philips offered a similar conversion lamp that growers really liked prior to discontinuing it. There's a huge & informative thread about CMH in general over here-

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=72215

I run 600 HPS, The heat is an issue and i cant run as many as before. I use 30x30 (inch) tables. I figured with the my table footprint i could swap and use twice the amount of fixtures and stay in the same amount of electricity ?


Okay i was looking at the growerhouse conversion kit.
Those retrofit kits, cant really see from the video but that kit would fit the already existing cord ( the 3 prong that is standard for every 600 from mogul base to ballast?)

 

[Hammerhead]

Anyone know if the Philips CDM 860W is basically the same as the 315 just more watts??

 

[Avinash.miles]

Anyone know if the Philips CDM 860W is basically the same as the 315 just more watts??

it is very different, for sure
mogul style base, burns VERY HOT, like MH 1kw. 2 layers of glass like t12 315w's.
also the 860's MUST be mounted vertically or only up to a 15 degree angle from vertical - according to all the specs.

more like a traditional MH than new school CMH

i ran mine on a 1kw magnetic ballast for MH and it worked fine.
imo i'd not bother with it, the new CMH's are significantly better than older CMH

 

[Hammerhead]

I was referring to the spectrum. There sold as CMH bulbs. 315 are also CMH. Older bulbs where just MH no?

I see they only work on magnetic ballast so that pretty much ends my interest. Thanks for the info

 

[Avinash.miles]

spectrum is similar i suppose, more "white" than blue MH and def not nearly as red as HPS

 

[sisterwilliam]

Does anyone have any insight on what happened to Advanced's website? I decided to pick up a couple more ballast/lamp combo's, and when I tried to pull up his site some start logic site pulled up that says "This site is temporarily unavailable". Now what's up with that!!