Philips 315w CDM Elite (CMH)

[HarvestMoon303]

Side by Side

Side by Side

Ok, so I am at about week 5 in flower, and so far, the 315's are killing it. They were the first to show pre-flower, the first to flower, the heaviest flowers first, by two weeks, at least, and the healthiest looking plants.

So, if I were just starting out growing, I would get a 4x4x8 tent, a 315 setup, some pots, and some cheap ass nutes (GH, Snype's, etc) and go for it. Wel over 1gm per watt is possible, and people are taking about 2.5 grams/watt. I'll have pics and some weight totals when I bring them down. The CMH will also probably finish a week or so sooner. The bed next to it is also really thriving, and I think it's from the lack of a hot neighbor, plus the increased spectrum. Long live HPS, but it's going to be dying quickly. 1/2 the power and better quality and yield at 630w (2 x 315w) CMH. This is the future, and eventually LED will take over. IMHO.

I'm growing a bed of plants with a new bulb, digital 1000 HPS, and I'm growing the same number of plants in the other bed with 2 x 315 CMH (Phillips). The color difference between the HPS and the CMH is pretty amazing. l will report back on the progress, but they won't be done for about 10 weeks. Has anyone tried such a side-by-side (essentially 2 x 315's vs a 1000HPS)?

Same strain, same cut, same # of plants, same temps and airflow, same size, same nutes and water. What is done to one bed is done to the other.

I've seen suggestions of 3 x 315 to replace 1 1000HPS, but by then, there isn't any power savings, and the equipment costs are getting up there. It would be less heat, but that's about it, right?

I'll keep ya posted.

 

[Jhhnn]

Old technology that works great, and cheap! I got a $50 mag ballast with $10 philips ceramlux alto lamps. I pull several ounces of dense, sticky nugs every harvest. More than enough for me.

That said, I'll be running one of these 315s soon. If the difference is enough to justify the expense, I'll switch. My hypothesis is, they won't.

I probably wouldn't have gone to 315's if I weren't proficient at all kinds of DIY & hadn't found used cermatec ballasts at a price I liked.

When I did the math wrt what I'd save in electrical costs I came up with a payback period of ~20 months at $0.10/KWH. That's using 630w of CDM to replace 1000w of conventional HID. It would have been longer using commercial fixtures but sooner at higher rates. The house isn't air conditioned, either, so there's less heat in the summer.

People who live in high electrical rate areas might do well for themselves to take a hard look at the math to see how long it would take to recoup the investment. After that, it's all gravy, money that the electric co won't see.

 

[willowz]

The air cooled 630 LEC's are about to go into production...

Have someone on the inside at Sunlight...

630 air cooled? I dont understand. Will this incorporate 2x315W lamps in T9 or will there be a single fixture 630W lamp to go along with that setup?

Thanks for the info!

 

[Jhhnn]

Ok, so I am at about week 5 in flower, and so far, the 315's are killing it. They were the first to show pre-flower, the first to flower, the heaviest flowers first, by two weeks, at least, and the healthiest looking plants.

So, if I were just starting out growing, I would get a 4x4x8 tent, a 315 setup, some pots, and some cheap ass nutes (GH, Snype's, etc) and go for it. Wel over 1gm per watt is possible, and people are taking about 2.5 grams/watt. I'll have pics and some weight totals when I bring them down. The CMH will also probably finish a week or so sooner. The bed next to it is also really thriving, and I think it's from the lack of a hot neighbor, plus the increased spectrum. Long live HPS, but it's going to be dying quickly. 1/2 the power and better quality and yield at 630w (2 x 315w) CMH. This is the future, and eventually LED will take over. IMHO.

Dunno about the rest of it, but my 315's have def put the finish times at the low end of what seedmakers claim. I suspect that the blue spectrum might inhibit reflowering in some hard to finish NLD tropicals, as well.

 

[krunchbubble]

630 air cooled? I dont understand. Will this incorporate 2x315W lamps in T9 or will there be a single fixture 630W lamp to go along with that setup?

Thanks for the info!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bq8r9tjd1c

 

[willowz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bq8r9tjd1c

Awesome sauce. Unfortunately the fixtures look like T12, PGZX-18. If they made PGZ-18 fixtures, I'd be sold.

 

[rives]

Awesome sauce. Unfortunately the fixtures look like T12, PGZX-18. If they made PGZ-18 fixtures, I'd be sold.

Hopefully they are just using the T12's for demonstration purposes. The PGZ-18 sockets will accept both the T9 and the T12 lamps, and it would be a strange oversight to limit an enclosed fixture to open-rated lamps. Even if they wiffed that one, it wouldn't be much of a problem to swap out the sockets.

 

[krunchbubble]

Awesome sauce. Unfortunately the fixtures look like T12, PGZX-18. If they made PGZ-18 fixtures, I'd be sold.

Hopefully they are just using the T12's for demonstration purposes. The PGZ-18 sockets will accept both the T9 and the T12 lamps, and it would be a strange oversight to limit an enclosed fixture to open-rated lamps. Even if they wiffed that one, it wouldn't be much of a problem to swap out the sockets.

I have no idea what those numbers mean...

But if they could benefit the enclosure by changing something as Rives mention, id like to know since I can easily relay it my kat on the inside...

 

[Jhhnn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bq8r9tjd1c

I dunno, Krunch. My space & system incorporate two stage cooling & it was all originally designed for a 1000w lamp. With twin 315's in a modified supersun 2 I turn the fan for the light down considerably for less noise. The fan & filter venting the grow space needs to be the same, however.

8" vents are way overkill & the whole thing is a lot bigger than it needs to be, I think. I don't understand why they even mention how the fixture is cooled but not the lamp because that doesn't matter with vacuum filled lamps, at all.

I'm sure it will work fine but sometimes grow stuff reminds me of fishing lures- a lot of 'em are designed more to catch fishermen than fish if you know what I mean...

 

[Hammerhead]

Why do they keep using that Mirrored aluminum. I thought the Hammered Aluminum was better?. I use the original 630 it has [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]PGZX-18 sockets. I doubt they would change that..

Edit: I just checked its the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]PGZX-18 sockets the 630 uses
[/FONT]

 

[rives]

I have no idea what those numbers mean...

But if they could benefit the enclosure by changing something as Rives mention, id like to know since I can easily relay it my kat on the inside...

The T9 lamps have a single jacket and use the PGZ-18 base and socket. The T12 lamps have a double jacket and a PGZX-18 base, which will fit either PGZ-18 socket or the PGZX-18 version.

The idea is that using the correct base in the appropriate fixtures will keep the uninformed from creating a potentially dangerous situation. The "X" stands for exclusionary, and is meant to keep the T9 lamps from being used in an open fixture. The standard PGZ-18 socket will accept either lamp and should only be used in enclosed fixtures so that there is secondary protection from a lamp explosion.

 

[willowz]

I have no idea what those numbers mean...

But if they could benefit the enclosure by changing something as Rives mention, id like to know since I can easily relay it my kat on the inside...

Just ask them if the socket is PGZX-18 or PGZ-18? If not can they use the PGZ-18 so T9's can be used, that are longer lasting and have higher lumen output than the T12's.

Thank you.

 

[GET MO]

So is the phantom pgzx-18 or pgz-18? one part is a half circle one is full circle.

 

[Hammerhead]

I just checked its the PGZX-18 sockets used. I have both T12 930 and 942 bulbs. The part# for the bulbs is important.

CDM-TP-315/T12/U/0 this is for open fixture. U/E is for a Enclosed fixture.

 

[Jhhnn]

At the level of a consumer product it's probably smart for fixture makers to use PGZX lamp holders even for enclosed fixtures. It protects them from liability & protects consumers from their own ignorance.

Growers aren't accustomed to such things because of the legacy of mogul base lamp holders.

 

[Jhhnn]

Philips part #'s indicate open or closed fixture application 3 times in the number itself.

CDM Elite MW 315/T9/930 or 942/U/E indicates closed fixtures with MW, T9 & E. They fit only PGZ lamp holders.

CDM Elite TP 315/T12/930 or 942/U/O indicates open or closed fixtures with TP, T12 & O. They fit PGZ & PGZX lamp holders.

Mogul base 315's are only available as open fixture rated lamps. they fit standard & exclusionary mogul lamp holders. Exclusionary lamp holders are only used in open commercial MH fixtures.

 

[Avinash.miles]

aside from part numbers, it's pretty obvious when you look at a U/O vs U/E (open or enclosed)
the t9 is not as big diameter and only one layer of glass
the t12 is larger diameter and has 2 layers of glass, inner and outer, separated by airspace.

also like getmo said, the fixtures are the same way - once you know which part looks which way (full circle or half) you know

 

[rives]

At the level of a consumer product it's probably smart for fixture makers to use PGZX lamp holders even for enclosed fixtures. It protects them from liability & protects consumers from their own ignorance.

Growers aren't accustomed to such things because of the legacy of mogul base lamp holders.

I don't understand your rationale for this idea.

I see no potential liability to a fixture manufacturer for using a component as it is designed to be used, or what the consumer can possibly be protected from. Limiting an enclosed fixture to open rated lamps would be akin to wearing a belt and suspenders; restrict the variety of lamp choices to the more expensive, shorter-lived offerings; and increase the light loss unnecessarily.

 

[Hammerhead]

I'm pretty sure the phantom uses PGZX. No t9 bulbs to test on it. It can be used as a open or closed fixture. The glass part is an option. You would have to use only T9 bulbs. Instead they can have 2 models 1 with glass ,1 without, ea would have the proper sockets.

 

[Jhhnn]

I don't understand your rationale for this idea.

I see no potential liability to a fixture manufacturer for using a component as it is designed to be used, or what the consumer can possibly be protected from. Limiting an enclosed fixture to open rated lamps would be akin to wearing a belt and suspenders; restrict the variety of lamp choices to the more expensive, shorter-lived offerings; and increase the light loss unnecessarily.

What you say makes sense from a technician's POV. OTOH, retail consumers aren't necessarily very good at things technical. Murphy's law is always in effect. Manufacturers go to great lengths to protect themselves from the liability of customer screw-ups. In this case, operating the fixture w/o the glass isn't safe using T9 lamps. An injured party's lawyer will claim that the fixture should have been interlocked to prevent operation w/o the glass in place or that warnings were insufficient. Doesn't mean they'll win in court- it just means they can be an astounding PITA.

It's bullshit, of course, but bullshit sells. Using PGZX lamp holders exclusively puts liability for catastrophic lamp failure entirely on the lamp manufacturer. It also eliminates the possibility of improper assembly at the factory where assemblers mistakenly install PGZ lamp holders in open reflector products.

The other side of it is that the vast majority of consumers will likely be very pleased even with the slightly degraded performance of T12's behind an extra layer of glass.

I'm not saying you're wrong, at all, certainly not from a technical perspective, just that consumers aren't necessarily as bright or as well informed as we'd like to think that they are.