I don't have a camera handy, but here is some ascii art
.pump----t---output
..............|
..............|
...........valve (open valve lowers output, close valve raises output)
-
ICMag with help from Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest in November! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
passive plant killer
- Thread starter delta9nxs
- Start date
.pump----t---output
..............|
..............|
...........valve (open valve lowers output, close valve raises output)
I read the first 200 replies last week and was highly intrigued. I just loaded the rest of the thread and am going to read the whole lot over xmas. Hope nobody turns my laptop off, lol. (no internet at home)
Really nice work D9. I'll have plenty of questions when I'm done I'm sure.
What would happen if you skipped the wicks and let the roots grow into the res, and kept the res level constant? The immediate thought is that the roots would rot, right? But then again, the air roots up top would still be taking in the air, so maybe it would work?
Is it possible that the plant could pump oxygen into the res water to keep it from going rotten? I dunno, plants seem pretty cluey sometimes.
If the roots would just rot, then ok, I understand.
Finally, a little off the topic but kinda passive related - you know how lots of people say airstones don't help in hempies? Well I've never tried it, but I find that difficult to believe. I just had a hempy plant contract root rot or something (certain branches wilt despite good moisture level)
So my idea, which I shamelessly pilferred from the OBBTs, is to.....well, let me explain. With the OBBTs you get a constant slow flow of air through the actual media, right? And that's a good thing from the sounds of it. But I remember there was some issues with some OBBTs, where you had to make a little tube airlock or something so the air doesn't just squirt out the hole - forcing it instead through the medium.
So my idea is to make a little sheath/airlock thing, on the inside of a hempy, covering the drain hole. When there is water in the res, this will force the bubbled air only up through the medium, and not out the little hempy hole. Water should still run out as normal though.
Here is my ascii art impression of it:
iwhjeb84y2r92rq
f87reyr0490osllk
66666666666uuu
But alas, I'm terrible at ascii art.
I dunno if any of this is even an issue but while I'm around some kindred souls, thought I would put it out there. Any thoughts? Take care
Really nice work D9. I'll have plenty of questions when I'm done I'm sure.
What would happen if you skipped the wicks and let the roots grow into the res, and kept the res level constant? The immediate thought is that the roots would rot, right? But then again, the air roots up top would still be taking in the air, so maybe it would work?
Is it possible that the plant could pump oxygen into the res water to keep it from going rotten? I dunno, plants seem pretty cluey sometimes.
If the roots would just rot, then ok, I understand.
Finally, a little off the topic but kinda passive related - you know how lots of people say airstones don't help in hempies? Well I've never tried it, but I find that difficult to believe. I just had a hempy plant contract root rot or something (certain branches wilt despite good moisture level)
So my idea, which I shamelessly pilferred from the OBBTs, is to.....well, let me explain. With the OBBTs you get a constant slow flow of air through the actual media, right? And that's a good thing from the sounds of it. But I remember there was some issues with some OBBTs, where you had to make a little tube airlock or something so the air doesn't just squirt out the hole - forcing it instead through the medium.
So my idea is to make a little sheath/airlock thing, on the inside of a hempy, covering the drain hole. When there is water in the res, this will force the bubbled air only up through the medium, and not out the little hempy hole. Water should still run out as normal though.
Here is my ascii art impression of it:
iwhjeb84y2r92rq
f87reyr0490osllk
66666666666uuu
But alas, I'm terrible at ascii art.
I dunno if any of this is even an issue but while I'm around some kindred souls, thought I would put it out there. Any thoughts? Take care
S
SCROG McDuck
The remaing reading will answer all of your question and will make your heart race.
I started reading it just before vacation, printed out the first ??? 57pages to read and reread
during the plane flight. <I had to enlist my son to check the DWC every day while
we were gone... with PPK, there's no more of that... they just
keep growing giving more time (alot more time) for cloneing, veging and reading.
All your questions will be answered.
The media wick is the heart of the PPK. Others have and do use
different wick types... media wick is preferred by the author.
Varriations in size and configuration varry some but PPK is
the ultimate, 'lazy mans', grow op.
You're going to be away for more than 2 week? No problem.
Roots in the rez is not something to srtive towards.
Read, you'll be amazed. D9 hsa been thourough and totally forthcoming with
all of his testing and results.
Personally, I can't thank him enough.. Thanks agin D9.
I started reading it just before vacation, printed out the first ??? 57pages to read and reread
during the plane flight. <I had to enlist my son to check the DWC every day while
we were gone... with PPK, there's no more of that... they just
keep growing giving more time (alot more time) for cloneing, veging and reading.
All your questions will be answered.
The media wick is the heart of the PPK. Others have and do use
different wick types... media wick is preferred by the author.
Varriations in size and configuration varry some but PPK is
the ultimate, 'lazy mans', grow op.
You're going to be away for more than 2 week? No problem.
Roots in the rez is not something to srtive towards.
Read, you'll be amazed. D9 hsa been thourough and totally forthcoming with
all of his testing and results.
Personally, I can't thank him enough.. Thanks agin D9.
oldone
Member
Well I suck at ASCII art too so here are some pics;What would happen if you skipped the wicks and let the roots grow into the res, and kept the res level constant? The immediate thought is that the roots would rot, right? But then again, the air roots up top would still be taking in the air, so maybe it would work?
Is it possible that the plant could pump oxygen into the res water to keep it from going rotten? I dunno, plants seem pretty cluey sometimes.
If the roots would just rot, then ok, I understand.
These are from run 2. No airstone in the PPK rez. While the roots do look rotten they didnt smell bad. I experienced big swings in EC/Ph and some of us speculated that it was the roots contributing to it. I dunno though...
Anyway since switching to a media wick my nutes are far more stable. That might have something to do with using the Jacks as well.
See ya,
OO
I think plants sitting in stagnant water will not grow as fast even though they may look healthy. I'd like see a side by side of active ppk vs passive. If it was at least equal, I'd consider not using a pump at all.
I have a plant I plucked from DWC and it is about 9 inches high and thriving. It is not residing in a plastic OJ bottle. I'm going to change the nutes when the water level goes down. If it can live, I'll stop changing the nutes. I want to see how fast or slow it grows next to plants in a circulating env. I predict the circulating plants (ppk, dwc) will out grow it. My buddy has clippings that have been in his window for months... Off a plant into a shot glass of tap water. Then he started giving nutes. They are alive but growing very slowly. They don't get good light either.
I'd love to see if a system can be made to equal my current system and not have any pumps. I just don't think it will be so.
I have a plant I plucked from DWC and it is about 9 inches high and thriving. It is not residing in a plastic OJ bottle. I'm going to change the nutes when the water level goes down. If it can live, I'll stop changing the nutes. I want to see how fast or slow it grows next to plants in a circulating env. I predict the circulating plants (ppk, dwc) will out grow it. My buddy has clippings that have been in his window for months... Off a plant into a shot glass of tap water. Then he started giving nutes. They are alive but growing very slowly. They don't get good light either.
I'd love to see if a system can be made to equal my current system and not have any pumps. I just don't think it will be so.
OO, this is the most elegant solution. thanks, jj
I read the first 200 replies last week and was highly intrigued. I just loaded the rest of the thread and am going to read the whole lot over xmas. Hope nobody turns my laptop off, lol. (no internet at home)
Really nice work D9. I'll have plenty of questions when I'm done I'm sure.
What would happen if you skipped the wicks and let the roots grow into the res, and kept the res level constant? The immediate thought is that the roots would rot, right? But then again, the air roots up top would still be taking in the air, so maybe it would work?
Is it possible that the plant could pump oxygen into the res water to keep it from going rotten? I dunno, plants seem pretty cluey sometimes.
If the roots would just rot, then ok, I understand.
Finally, a little off the topic but kinda passive related - you know how lots of people say airstones don't help in hempies? Well I've never tried it, but I find that difficult to believe. I just had a hempy plant contract root rot or something (certain branches wilt despite good moisture level)
So my idea, which I shamelessly pilferred from the OBBTs, is to.....well, let me explain. With the OBBTs you get a constant slow flow of air through the actual media, right? And that's a good thing from the sounds of it. But I remember there was some issues with some OBBTs, where you had to make a little tube airlock or something so the air doesn't just squirt out the hole - forcing it instead through the medium.
So my idea is to make a little sheath/airlock thing, on the inside of a hempy, covering the drain hole. When there is water in the res, this will force the bubbled air only up through the medium, and not out the little hempy hole. Water should still run out as normal though.
Here is my ascii art impression of it:
iwhjeb84y2r92rq
f87reyr0490osllk
66666666666uuu
But alas, I'm terrible at ascii art.
I dunno if any of this is even an issue but while I'm around some kindred souls, thought I would put it out there. Any thoughts? Take care
hi, scrub! thank you!
what's happening in the reservoir of a hempy is that you are creating a flooded area that cannot drain and then putting a perched water table on top of it.
so you have a lot of water occupying space that could be used for increased air porosity. this water must be eliminated by either the plant or evaporation.
research has shown that as the water recedes air type roots will grow into the space. when you water you drown them again. the irb is on the verge of developing root rot every time you water. you get away with it, you get away with it, and then you don't. kind of like russian roulette. people that are successful in irb's have figured the precise interval to water for their situation.
i kept very careful records for an 8 month period growing in 10 gallon irb's with perlite. i installed fittings on the containers in order to be able to easily monitor ec and ph in the root zone, after watering, which is where the rubber meets the road. run off measurements are useless as it will not be what the roots are going to be sitting in until the next watering event.
what i discovered is that there is virtually no way to run an irb and have stable ec and ph in the root zone.
the only way possible is to maintain a fixed water level as you alluded to. and then water several times per day. no more than 6 hour intervals. then only the water type roots will grow into the space. the air type roots generally will stop at the air water interface.
in any device that has roots sitting in water the water level should either be fixed or allowed to slowly fall and never be brought back up.
the wilt you see is from air roots drowning. you probably had little spots running up the center of some of the lower leaves.
if you grow in a ppk this cannot happen. you will never have a water stress event or an over watering event.
you don't seriously expect me to understand that ascii thing?
zeke,
From my understanding you can use any medium you want. You would need to find out what the (perched water table) PWT would be with your medium and probably experiment on how often and how much you would need to pulse feed to keep the medium moist.
If I am mistaken I am sure someone will be here shortly to correct me.
Soorc
From my understanding you can use any medium you want. You would need to find out what the (perched water table) PWT would be with your medium and probably experiment on how often and how much you would need to pulse feed to keep the medium moist.
If I am mistaken I am sure someone will be here shortly to correct me.
Soorc
Hey D9, quick question. The large plant I have between two lights is showing super dense leaf and bud formation on all the branches closest to the light. Is this OK? j/k I am seeing some leaf curl on those areas though. Have you run into that? Could be too dry in there...
Blumat observation - watching a single Blumat on a 2gal coco pot watering a 6ft monster I noticed it was dripping almost 2 drops/second! Thought I may have another runaway. Checked again an hour later and it's still crankin...pot it just staying moist, not wet at all. I think it's REALLY cool to watch exactly how much a plant is drinking at a given moment. Still want to switch to PPK's though.
j/k I am seeing some leaf curl on those areas though. Have you run into that? Could be too dry in there...Blumat observation - watching a single Blumat on a 2gal coco pot watering a 6ft monster I noticed it was dripping almost 2 drops/second! Thought I may have another runaway. Checked again an hour later and it's still crankin...pot it just staying moist, not wet at all. I think it's REALLY cool to watch exactly how much a plant is drinking at a given moment. Still want to switch to PPK's though.
hi, zeke99! welcome!
earlier in the thread i used a series of different media mixed in different ways. i grew some decent plants in them but coco coir is my favorite. high grade coco has nearly perfect porosity characteristics.
i've grown a lot of plants in pure perlite and i feel it needs to be amended about 30% with something that has at least some cation exchange capacity, like coco, vermiculite, or turface. these substances will also help keep the perlite from drying too fast.
because of the tendency of perlite to dry too fast nutrients can accumulate at at rapid rate.
start looking at pictures of plants in pure perlite and you will almost universally see tip burn.
if i were to run pure perlite again i would use a continuous drip. unless i was available to hand water 24 times day. and even then it would not out perform a continuous drip in pure perlite.
for more info google "perlite culture". you should get several hits from the schindler company, a large perlite manufacturer, and the university of edinburgh, where the research was done.
i would also probably eliminate the sidewall holes.
later
Last edited:
Hey D9, quick question. The large plant I have between two lights is showing super dense leaf and bud formation on all the branches closest to the light. Is this OK?
Blumat observation - watching a single Blumat on a 2gal coco pot watering a 6ft monster I noticed it was dripping almost 2 drops/second! Thought I may have another runaway. Checked again an hour later and it's still crankin...pot it just staying moist, not wet at all. I think it's REALLY cool to watch exactly how much a plant is drinking at a given moment. Still want to switch to PPK's though.
omg! i hope you have corrected the problem in time. we certainly don't want you experiencing the dreaded "too much giant, heavy bud on one side of the plant so it falls over onto the floor and you have to smoke that nasty, dirty, floor bud" syndrome. i have personally been through such an ordeal and it was traumatic. i felt so underprivileged.
leaf twist like someone has taken a leaf petal and twisted the outer portion 90 degrees? if, as you say, it's only the portions closest to the light it is probably the plant trying to avoid further light saturation. the plant is physically adapting to high photon flow. sort of like how in a sailboat you trim and reduce sail area to adjust for high wind.
i think it is tied to humidity and temperature also but not sure how much.
it's the big problem indoors. we are forced to run lights a close as possible in front to compensate for lack of penetration to the rear or interior or bottom.
this is a major hurdle to indoor yield that i feel has not been properly addressed yet.
i have several approaches to this that i want to try soon in view of dr. elsohly's findings.
runaway blumats huh? i knew they were ungrateful little shits but to actually runaway is inexcusable.
i've looked at them and am intrigued by the idea but can't figure a way to make them work right that does not get more complicated or trouble prone than what i'm doing now. this pulse feed is super reliable and very effective at mixing gases around in the root zone.
but if you get turned on by watching blumats drip then you are going to love watching the float valve drip with ppk's. i think it could be a very useful learning tool.
d9
zeke99
Active member
I read your posts in the Hempy thread about perlite and the other mediums before starting with the buckets. Those were very helpful.
Continuous drip & no holes in the sidewalls...thanks man.
i think i actually figured it out. Instead of pulsing to the girls direct, pulse to the blumat rezzie, and adjust them to drip only enough - best i got
Hey thanks D. No, wasn't serious with the ascii, hehe. I will keep studying this. Thank you. I'm still reading through but I sure hope there are updates for silversurfer's garbage cans in the creek bed - that was so inspiring, as is the rest. Carry on.
Merry Christmas D9, and everyone else on the PPK trip.
Lets not be exclusive: Merry Christmas everyone!
Lets not be exclusive: Merry Christmas everyone!
medicaluser2
New member
great thread tons of great information. thanks !
has anyone seen the earthtainer applied to the ppk method? i bet this planter would really put out some goodies using the coco mix! its too big for my space though. check it out
http://earthtainer.tomatofest.com/
has anyone seen the earthtainer applied to the ppk method? i bet this planter would really put out some goodies using the coco mix! its too big for my space though. check it out
http://earthtainer.tomatofest.com/
just wanted to share this informative link
http://www.irrigationtutorials.com/
I was searching for pump info and came across this: http://www.irrigationtutorials.com/pump.htm
lots of stuff to read if you want to learn about how water behaves
http://www.irrigationtutorials.com/
I was searching for pump info and came across this: http://www.irrigationtutorials.com/pump.htm
lots of stuff to read if you want to learn about how water behaves
