passive plant killer

[delta9nxs]

this is an interesting photo. these two containers that i keep the jack's and calcinit in were both filled at the same time a month or two ago.

i have been mixing at the 1 part jack's to .67 of a part calcinit by meter at different strengths yet have used nearly identical physical volumes.

this ratio in ro water obviates the necessity of a ph meter. i am not correcting ph at any point. score one for the people.

in fact, at this point, i think that if you have not bought a ph meter yet and are embarking upon this program you don't need one.

 

[delta9nxs]

whoops!

 

[oldone]

wholly burst of activity, batman!

Next time get a Canadian paddle...last forever.

LOL,
OO

 

[SCROG McDuck]

i just use whatever i'm feeding at the time. ec 1.5 right now.

but remember this is after a heavy rinse with tap water that is allowed to drain thoroughly before the pretreatment.

i'm pouring about 4.5 gals of solution through during the
pretreatment.

i'm not using the hd coco anymore. that was a one time experiment. i think it retains a lot more salt than the atami. some of the containers where i used it mixed with atami showed salt deposits around the air holes. this never happens with atami alone. it did not seem to affect growth, however.

i also don't want to have to mix and rehydrate coco. i like the loose fill. very fast and easy to work with.

i have found that the feed lines from the control bucket to the individual plant reservoirs do not have to be equal length but it would not hurt to have them so.

the pulse feed lines have to be equal length to get equal delivery. an alternative would be to put small aquarium type valves on each one and try to tune them. but i feel that is a cumbersome approach to a problem that can be solved by taking your longest run and duplicating it.

Thank you D9.. as always simple and presice answers..

I went with equal length feeders..
I think about all that hose in that little 4x4 tent and this 'bull' crashing around in there, on them.

I still get ph readings of mid 4s at 700ish with Jacks and Peters cacinit..
I'm going to use 3.5gal pots inside the 5 gallon bucket.. PPKish,
so my thought process is.. shorter 'pot', larger>4.5" air gap, lower ec 1.2 (keeping the ph in a good range..)
600w hps, and adjust from there.

I digress.....Where did mistress go? I hope you're good, M.

I just realized I have to cut holes in the tent to get these feeders in there
or keep the controll bucket, in there too... I dont think so,
but who knows.

I cant get the atami here in so. florida without paying more for the
shipping than the atami... wont do it.. trying canna..
I'm not used to useing solids for media, so a little aprehensive on the washing a nd loading but
I'm sure there is not magic.. just messey.

Pulse system, I dono, may not require as much feeding (or any) due to the shorter 'pot'.

Will post pics in a couple days.. thanks for your advice.

Thanks again..

 

[delta9nxs]

i tried to get one! when i broke mine, i, of course, went straight to the new paddle superstore, Paddles-R-Us, a subsidiary of Oars-R-Us, and specifically ask for an authentic Canadian paddle.

first the clerk comes out with a "Mistress" autograph model, you know, the kinky little black leather one with the holes in it, her initials, of course.

no, that's not it, i replied!

next, he brings out one of those teachers specials that are used in schools to beat goodness into little children. no, that's definitely not it.

finally, after a ping pong paddle, a game paddle, and a demonstration of the dog paddle, (they'll do anything to make a sale) the clerk returns empty handed and tells me that they can't get live beaver this time of year.

oh well

 

[Carl Carlson]

I use a steel yardstick.

 

[DevilWeed]

I use a big ass pump.

 

[delta9nxs]

I use a big ass pump.

i've heard you have to be careful around those ass pumps, big or small. apparently there exist the possibility of blow back.

you would think the kinetic energy of the solid matter would pose the worst threat because of concussion but i understand professionals in the field fear the explosive potential of by-pass blow back gases the most.

 

[SCROG McDuck]

i've heard you have to be careful around those ass pumps, big or small. apparently there exist the possibility of blow back.

you would think the kinetic energy of the solid matter would pose the worst threat because of concussion but i understand professionals in the field fear the explosive potential of by-pass blow back gases the most.

and no smoking or open flames anywhere around it when in operation!

 

[delta9nxs]

and no smoking or open flames anywhere around it when in operation!

flaming butt blow back by-pass gases be bad fo' asses.

 

[jjfoo]

i've heard you have to be careful around those ass pumps, big or small. apparently there exist the possibility of blow back.

you would think the kinetic energy of the solid matter would pose the worst threat because of concussion but i understand professionals in the field fear the explosive potential of by-pass blow back gases the most.

I guess this would be a good argument to use a centrifugal pump as opposed to a diaphram pump.

Diaphram pumps are displacement pumps that will pump a fixed volume or burn out trying.

They are used for many things but some people use them to fill accumlator tanks and run high pressume aero-ponic sprayers. Which by the way sounds really cool if you like science projects. You can really dial it in (or out in many cases).


Anyhow, back to the point. I guess PPK is truly a low pressure system.

In many cases low pressume irrigation leads to uneven watering.

This is kind of where I see the ppk not scaling. It would become a pile of tubes. I like to chain my tubes together. I used to worry about having large pipes to let the EC distrubute, but after measuring this, I have decided it wont distrubute much at all so I am not concerned with having large pipes anymore.

I guess you could build a ppk network with a large hub that supplied other hubs. then end nodes.

In my terms I'd call the ppk a star topology and my way a bus topology.


Anyhow, I am really having good luck with my system which is much derived from PPK. I am currently hand watering daily and I was giving EC of 1.5. Today I am using 1.6. The EC is slowly falling in my runoff and I need to slowly steer it back to 1.5. This is new territory for me, because in the past I used to over react when trying to steer my EC.

It is amazing to me just how much the plants are clearing the salt. I'm my opinion PPK is hydroponics at it's finest. Over course there are many other technicalloy equivilant ways to grow, but I make my choice on austhetics with a higher priority than anything else, so I am moving toward the PPK. Just got to build my sprinkler heads the way you do. Are the connectors you use made by John Guest? I've seen them online for RO systems. I'm tempted to cheap out and use homedepot dripsystem parts.

I'm slow to change... But as I change more to the PPK I am thinking, "wow I should have done it in the first place".

 

[SCROG McDuck]

I'm slow to change... But as I change more to the PPK I am thinking, "wow I should have done it in the first place".

Aren't we all in the same boat?
If we were really happy with the way we do things, we wouldn't
concider 'change' in the first place..

I think it has something to do with useing the herb we grow.


Additionally>> I find myself looking at every plastic container for its' PPKability..LOL!! weirdo.

 

[delta9nxs]

I guess this would be a good argument to use a centrifugal pump as opposed to a diaphram pump.

Diaphram pumps are displacement pumps that will pump a fixed volume or burn out trying.

They are used for many things but some people use them to fill accumlator tanks and run high pressume aero-ponic sprayers. Which by the way sounds really cool if you like science projects. You can really dial it in (or out in many cases).


Anyhow, back to the point. I guess PPK is truly a low pressure system.

In many cases low pressume irrigation leads to uneven watering.

This is kind of where I see the ppk not scaling. It would become a pile of tubes. I like to chain my tubes together. I used to worry about having large pipes to let the EC distrubute, but after measuring this, I have decided it wont distrubute much at all so I am not concerned with having large pipes anymore.

I guess you could build a ppk network with a large hub that supplied other hubs. then end nodes.

In my terms I'd call the ppk a star topology and my way a bus topology.


Anyhow, I am really having good luck with my system which is much derived from PPK. I am currently hand watering daily and I was giving EC of 1.5. Today I am using 1.6. The EC is slowly falling in my runoff and I need to slowly steer it back to 1.5. This is new territory for me, because in the past I used to over react when trying to steer my EC.

It is amazing to me just how much the plants are clearing the salt. I'm my opinion PPK is hydroponics at it's finest. Over course there are many other technicalloy equivilant ways to grow, but I make my choice on austhetics with a higher priority than anything else, so I am moving toward the PPK. Just got to build my sprinkler heads the way you do. Are the connectors you use made by John Guest? I've seen them online for RO systems. I'm tempted to cheap out and use homedepot dripsystem parts.

I'm slow to change... But as I change more to the PPK I am thinking, "wow I should have done it in the first place".

hey, jjfoo! good morning!

actually , i see this scaling up very well. if your facility were all on the same level you could run an entire greenhouse like this quite easily by using a central nutrient level control tank that had larger lines going out to the plant areas. gravity will equalize all levels.

each plant area, grouped by type of plant and stage of life, could then be fed by smaller control tanks located in the midst of each group.

if you desired the same reservoir level you could use one central larger diameter valve for the whole place or if you would like to run different levels you could have a small valve on each group like the ones we are are using here.

same approach with the pulse feed. pumps and timers set up to control each group, if necessary

i don't see any major engineering hurdles at all.

thank you for the compliments! it's gratifying to know that people are successfully growing their medicine in these things.

d9

the fittings are "john guest" fittings from lowes.

the cheap drip line works great. i would run open lines on the pulse system if you install one.

if you don't use a pulse system you need to water a little from the top with plain water maybe once a week just to move the salts back down.

but if you like the stability you are getting now you will love it with a pulse system installed.

and please, just so i can sleep at night, put a screen or a piece of fabric over that tailpiece.

 

[delta9nxs]

i just went out to transplant a clone and decided to check ec and ph in all veg containers. with 9 containers including the pump and control buckets ec averaged 1.4 or 701 ppm and ph 5.7.

highest to lowest the spread was only 27 ppm and ph was 5.6 to 5.9.

i have been feeding ec 1.5 or 750 ppm and starting ph was 5.4-5.5.

this is incredible stability.

the floor or "contaminated" part of the veg system only holds 24.93 gals at this level.

i am still dumping approx 2.77 gals a week out of it when i move a plant.

every few weeks i have been dumping the control bucket also when i see any debris in it.

btw, i'm still finding flora nova bloom scum pieces floating around here and there. must be coming from the tubing.

strongly recommend people take advantage of my mistakes and keep this system full of clean nutes.

by not feeding more than ec 1.5 or 750 ppm ever in either veg or flower you are introducing a new parameter of stability in the medium. up until this point i have been playing around a lot with strength. using weaker and stronger solution to gauge effect.

this is growing beautiful plants but realize that at the same time, over the course of an entire grow, you are limiting salt accumulation again. another technique for management. all this stuff is adding up.

d9

 

[delta9nxs]

follow up on my report above. i went out to the flower room when the lights came on and checked the 10 containers there for ec and ph also. i have been running the 750 ppm mix for some time but i began running it into the existing solution and did not dump in between.

i figure by now with plants being regularly rotated through and the continuous feed that it has stabilized.

i got 806 ppm or ec 1.6 average and 5.8 ph average. spread only 47 points between highest and lowest.

so i am feeding plants in every stage of growth, in both flower and vegetative cycles, with ec 1.5.

i am getting no more than about a 100 ppm spread from highest to lowest and a working ph of 5.6-5.9.

i feel the spread in ec is due to the plants differential uptake of nutrients at differing points of growth.

i think this is self correcting in this system as the plants grow.

 

[oldone]

btw, i'm still finding flora nova bloom scum pieces floating around here and there. must be coming from the tubing.

Hi D9, good to see the mothership in such fine shape.

I know I started the 3rd run with perfectly clean containers and new tubing yet I find some fine brownish particles on the bottom of my bulk rez. I think it must be coming from the Jacks because there is nothing else in there. Its not a big deal, just thought you'd like to know.

see ya,
OO

 

[DevilWeed]

Great updates as always. Gotta thank you for doing all this work for me, you're making it so simple!!

I can't recall if you have posted details about the strain you grow. Is she a hungry girl? Have you grown her with "old school" horizontal hoods? If I recall correctly, you played with EC's @ 2.1 and then down to 1.7ish? Any reason you dropped down to 1.5?

Right now I'm still on the fence about the room design. I'm stuck for a bit as I have a veg room full of plants ready to flower. I have to stay perpetual through this so I may stadium the current flower room and build out a 10x10 tree room. I can flip flop the 3 or 4 ballasts in the current room and just add an extra in for the new room. On that note, anyone know if it's ok to leave an electronic ballast energized but not plugged into a light? That would allow me to keep everything on the flip-flop/single timer. Not sure I could pull off 5 lights in the current room...

 

[jjfoo]

i just went out to transplant a clone and decided to check ec and ph in all veg containers. with 9 containers including the pump and control buckets ec averaged 1.4 or 701 ppm and ph 5.7.

My pH seems to change toward 7.0.

this is incredible stability.

yes it is

by not feeding more than ec 1.5 or 750 ppm ever in either veg or flower you are introducing a new parameter of stability in the medium. up until this point i have been playing around a lot with strength. using weaker and stronger solution to gauge effect.

I changed strains on this grow. My last grow I have 1.4 and it slowly went up over time. This time I am giving 1.5 and it is going down. My control bucket is at 1.3 ish. Today I have 1.7 and my run off is like 1.25. Maybe I have a nutrient hungry plant. I am currently letting the plants dictate the EC. My goal is to keep my control bucket at the same number. This may envolve 1.5 EC nutes some times and > than 1.5 or even less if I see the run off moving.

this is growing beautiful plants but realize that at the same time, over the course of an entire grow, you are limiting salt accumulation again. another technique for management. all this stuff is adding up.

d9

I'm my current case I have the opposite problem... Water accumulation, one may say. I have one plant in a solo container not connected. It gets 1.0 EC and the res is usually at 2.0. This plant is vegging in a large funnel with a wick hanging out the bottom sitting on/in a beaker.

From my experience, I need to change the EC on my input solution to keep the EC steady. I had a lemon skunk plant in veg that has gone up to 3.5 on the runoff/res. It is now at 2, but it is the strongest looking plant. I think that maybe just giving 1.5 input to a no run off system (unless I have misunderstood) is a very general thing and some strains in some environments (high light, CO2, temp) may benefit from different EC levels.

 

[jjfoo]

I know I started the 3rd run with perfectly clean containers and new tubing yet I find some fine brownish particles on the bottom of my bulk rez. I think it must be coming from the Jacks because there is nothing else in there. Its not a big deal, just thought you'd like to know.

see ya,
OO

Have considered it could be something growing? In my hose from my dehumdifier that just runs into a bucket I get brown stuff coming off the hose near the end. There is a brown slime growing inside the tube. I don't know how it grows in the 99% pure water but it is brown and breaks up into particles like you discribe. Do you a photo? From what I have seen, I'd say this stuff is being fed my the Jacks maybe, but not caused by it. It is actually impossible to prove a causal relationship, so to say it must be the Jacks, because ther is nothign else in there isn't an idea I would be a lot of confidence in. There is more in there than Jacks, you res is probably not sterile nor the coco. YOu can make compost starters (bokashi) buy simply starting with water that has been used to rinse rice. The bacteria will enter from the air and begin to do stuff. I mean there is a lot in your room at the micro level, unless you have taken precautions to run a sterile environment.

 

[jjfoo]

On that note, anyone know if it's ok to leave an electronic ballast energized but not plugged into a light?

seems like it could depend...


check out this:
from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_ballast#Electronic_ballasts

Electronic ballasts are often based on the SMPS topology, first rectifying the input power and then chopping it at a high frequency.

------------------------------------
from:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_supply#Linear_regulated_power_supply

SMPSs have an absolute limit on their minimum current output.[4] They are only able to output above a certain power level and cannot function below that point. In a no-load condition the frequency of the power slicing circuit increases to great speed, causing the isolated transformer to act as a Tesla coil, causing damage due to the resulting very high voltage power spikes. Switched-mode supplies with protection circuits may briefly turn on but then shut down when no load has been detected. A very small low-power dummy load such as a ceramic power resistor or 10-watt light bulb can be attached to the supply to allow it to run with no primary load attached.