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passive plant killer
- Thread starter delta9nxs
- Start date
yeah, must be vacation time. hey, you wanna go to a thread and start a bunch of shit just for something to do?
you haven't put up any pics lately, plants still looking good?
oldone
Member
Oh yeah she's still stretching like crazy. I could'nt be happier with the PPK concept. I've just had to refill the rez like twice so far...it sure is the lazy mans way to grow.
I'm posting pics every 7 days until things get exciting. The bugs *seem* to be under control. You made me feel a lot better bro, with your springtail diagnosis, thanks.
How's a canuck and a good 'ol boy gonna stir up some shit? LOL....
OO
I'm posting pics every 7 days until things get exciting. The bugs *seem* to be under control. You made me feel a lot better bro, with your springtail diagnosis, thanks.
How's a canuck and a good 'ol boy gonna stir up some shit? LOL....
OO
D9,
I am going to run a simple system this run, and was thinking about running coco DTW. After working through this thread, and starting to grasp some of the ideas contained within, I've decided to put together a couple PPKs. They're based on the drilled out DIY air pruning bucket version.
That said, I'm plumbing my medium-wick slightly differently. I was running a knock off UC that went badly and am salvaging the 3" pvc and uniseals for the medium-wick (just because it's there). I have landscape fabric (appears to be the same material as smart pots) to keep the medium in the wick, but it just occurred to me that I might be encouraging quite a bit of root growth down the medium-wick.
I want the nutes to be isolated from the biological processes in the root mass. Do you see any problems in running the three inch diameter wick? (A solution might be to put another layer of fabric across the bottom of the bucket to keep the roots out of the the coco filled pvc).
Thanks for all the work on this thread. A hasty wick system saved me over an unplanned long weekend where I wouldn't be around to hand water. Hadn't though about wicks in a very long time.
Thanks.
I am going to run a simple system this run, and was thinking about running coco DTW. After working through this thread, and starting to grasp some of the ideas contained within, I've decided to put together a couple PPKs. They're based on the drilled out DIY air pruning bucket version.
That said, I'm plumbing my medium-wick slightly differently. I was running a knock off UC that went badly and am salvaging the 3" pvc and uniseals for the medium-wick (just because it's there). I have landscape fabric (appears to be the same material as smart pots) to keep the medium in the wick, but it just occurred to me that I might be encouraging quite a bit of root growth down the medium-wick.
I want the nutes to be isolated from the biological processes in the root mass. Do you see any problems in running the three inch diameter wick? (A solution might be to put another layer of fabric across the bottom of the bucket to keep the roots out of the the coco filled pvc).
Thanks for all the work on this thread. A hasty wick system saved me over an unplanned long weekend where I wouldn't be around to hand water. Hadn't though about wicks in a very long time.
Thanks.
hi, IF!
what size buckets are you going to use? these 1.5" sink tailpieces are more than enough for 5 gal buckets. i think the "air box" uses larger sumps but they use a lot more medium too. i think 10 gals or more. no matter what you do you are going to get some roots in the reservoir. the key is to minimize them there. you will get more than adequate root growth in the upper chamber.
you are correct in keeping nutrients separate as much as possible. they stay cleaner and more chemically viable over time. also seal everything as much as possible to control evaporation.
are you going to run a float valve for level control? this is a key concept here. you can run it like a hempy by having an overflow hole and keeping it topped daily to that level but you will have much greater long term stability and better looking plants by finding the proper operating level and keeping it there.
thank you for trying this and please keep me posted on your progress.
d9
in the early days of this i got no roots at all. then, as the plants have gotten larger and larger i have gotten more and more roots. now with these last few plants i'm getting small amounts of water type roots in the res. regularly. like a handful or so, but not a large amount.
i have been thinking about ways to restrict them.
later
D9,
I've picked up some semi-beefy 12 gallon black totes. Running black buckets on top. 5 gallons. I'm only going to run two plants, so will have the float in one tote, and bottom connect the two (and use that as drains if necessary).
With matched lids for everything (passive res, root-zone feeding res), my evap. should be reasonable, right? Or are you suggesting that I tape/silicone/whatever?
Instead of running screen at the base of the tail-piece, I'm running a heavy black felt--because I have it. I'm hoping the directionality of the capillary action will reduce contamination with reservoir. I've also considered over-filling the tail piece, and covering it with this same fabric. I am only concerned that this may interfere or reduce the flow of nutrients into the system. That said, maybe the three inch tail-piece (again, because I have it) will contribute enough of a pathway to overcome the reduction.
Have you noticed an increased instability in your solution since you started seeing water roots in the system?
(I decided to put together a PPK when I realized that it was, essentially a DTW without the DTW... that is, the biggest issue with the rDWC systems is the root-solution interaction, and all of the complications that result--whether it is just the imbalanced feeding that modifies pH and can cause lockout, or the introduction of the root excretions that shifts the nute dynamic... (Not to mention the retarded waste with weekly change outs, if one goes down that route.) I want my balanced nutes feeding from isolation to the best of my ability.)
Googled 'air box' and didn't find a similar system to the PPK... all carbon air filters. Link or info?
I've picked up some semi-beefy 12 gallon black totes. Running black buckets on top. 5 gallons. I'm only going to run two plants, so will have the float in one tote, and bottom connect the two (and use that as drains if necessary).
With matched lids for everything (passive res, root-zone feeding res), my evap. should be reasonable, right? Or are you suggesting that I tape/silicone/whatever?
Instead of running screen at the base of the tail-piece, I'm running a heavy black felt--because I have it. I'm hoping the directionality of the capillary action will reduce contamination with reservoir. I've also considered over-filling the tail piece, and covering it with this same fabric. I am only concerned that this may interfere or reduce the flow of nutrients into the system. That said, maybe the three inch tail-piece (again, because I have it) will contribute enough of a pathway to overcome the reduction.
Have you noticed an increased instability in your solution since you started seeing water roots in the system?
(I decided to put together a PPK when I realized that it was, essentially a DTW without the DTW... that is, the biggest issue with the rDWC systems is the root-solution interaction, and all of the complications that result--whether it is just the imbalanced feeding that modifies pH and can cause lockout, or the introduction of the root excretions that shifts the nute dynamic... (Not to mention the retarded waste with weekly change outs, if one goes down that route.) I want my balanced nutes feeding from isolation to the best of my ability.)
Googled 'air box' and didn't find a similar system to the PPK... all carbon air filters. Link or info?
Quotes by imaginaryfriend
“D9,
I've picked up some semi-beefy 12 gallon black totes. Running black buckets on top. 5 gallons. I'm only going to run two plants, so will have the float in one tote, and bottom connect the two (and use that as drains if necessary).”
hey, the 12 gal totes are huge but the extra volume won't hurt. If you are going to run a top watering scheme you could put the pump in the second tote, forcing movement from the float chamber/res to the pump chamber/res. With just two plants this should work fine. You will have a third tank as a volume tank, right?
“With matched lids for everything (passive res, root-zone feeding res), my evap. should be reasonable, right? Or are you suggesting that I tape/silicone/whatever?”
good tight fitting lids are fine.
“Instead of running screen at the base of the tail-piece, I'm running a heavy black felt--because I have it. I'm hoping the directionality of the capillary action will reduce contamination with reservoir. I've also considered over-filling the tail piece, and covering it with this same fabric. I am only concerned that this may interfere or reduce the flow of nutrients into the system. That said, maybe the three inch tail-piece (again, because I have it) will contribute enough of a pathway to overcome the reduction.”
as a matter of fact I have been thinking about using heavy fabric instead of screen. I get a lot of fine coco particle in the bottom. Doesn't seem to hurt anything though.
“Have you noticed an increased instability in your solution since you started seeing water roots in the system?”
Not really. I move my plants one time from the veg area to the flower area. Any roots that are showing then get ripped off. By the end of flower they have grown back but are just a handful. The plant is getting so much o2 from the top chamber that it doesn't seem to want to produce much in the res.
“(I decided to put together a PPK when I realized that it was, essentially a DTW without the DTW... that is, the biggest issue with the rDWC systems is the root-solution interaction, and all of the complications that result--whether it is just the imbalanced feeding that modifies pH and can cause lockout, or the introduction of the root excretions that shifts the nute dynamic... (Not to mention the retarded waste with weekly change outs, if one goes down that route.) I want my balanced nutes feeding from isolation to the best of my ability.)”
I read your thread and can tell you that you will have no problems with reservoir temps, o2 supply, nutrient contamination, or ph instability. Low labor and maintenance.
The “grow”stress and anxiety that most experience as they watch crops fail is non-existent with this system. You learn to trust the system. You know that you can leave for protracted periods of time and your plants will still be alive and looking good.
The only real suggestion that I have for you is to go to the hardware store and get those 1.5” tailpieces and marvel connectors. I think they may be a little too big but I can't find anything smaller.
“Googled 'air box' and didn't find a similar system to the PPK... all carbon air filters. Link or info?”
Shit, said “air box”, meant “earth box”. Sorry.
Later, d9
__________________
“D9,
I've picked up some semi-beefy 12 gallon black totes. Running black buckets on top. 5 gallons. I'm only going to run two plants, so will have the float in one tote, and bottom connect the two (and use that as drains if necessary).”
hey, the 12 gal totes are huge but the extra volume won't hurt. If you are going to run a top watering scheme you could put the pump in the second tote, forcing movement from the float chamber/res to the pump chamber/res. With just two plants this should work fine. You will have a third tank as a volume tank, right?
“With matched lids for everything (passive res, root-zone feeding res), my evap. should be reasonable, right? Or are you suggesting that I tape/silicone/whatever?”
good tight fitting lids are fine.
“Instead of running screen at the base of the tail-piece, I'm running a heavy black felt--because I have it. I'm hoping the directionality of the capillary action will reduce contamination with reservoir. I've also considered over-filling the tail piece, and covering it with this same fabric. I am only concerned that this may interfere or reduce the flow of nutrients into the system. That said, maybe the three inch tail-piece (again, because I have it) will contribute enough of a pathway to overcome the reduction.”
as a matter of fact I have been thinking about using heavy fabric instead of screen. I get a lot of fine coco particle in the bottom. Doesn't seem to hurt anything though.
“Have you noticed an increased instability in your solution since you started seeing water roots in the system?”
Not really. I move my plants one time from the veg area to the flower area. Any roots that are showing then get ripped off. By the end of flower they have grown back but are just a handful. The plant is getting so much o2 from the top chamber that it doesn't seem to want to produce much in the res.
“(I decided to put together a PPK when I realized that it was, essentially a DTW without the DTW... that is, the biggest issue with the rDWC systems is the root-solution interaction, and all of the complications that result--whether it is just the imbalanced feeding that modifies pH and can cause lockout, or the introduction of the root excretions that shifts the nute dynamic... (Not to mention the retarded waste with weekly change outs, if one goes down that route.) I want my balanced nutes feeding from isolation to the best of my ability.)”
I read your thread and can tell you that you will have no problems with reservoir temps, o2 supply, nutrient contamination, or ph instability. Low labor and maintenance.
The “grow”stress and anxiety that most experience as they watch crops fail is non-existent with this system. You learn to trust the system. You know that you can leave for protracted periods of time and your plants will still be alive and looking good.
The only real suggestion that I have for you is to go to the hardware store and get those 1.5” tailpieces and marvel connectors. I think they may be a little too big but I can't find anything smaller.
“Googled 'air box' and didn't find a similar system to the PPK... all carbon air filters. Link or info?”
Shit, said “air box”, meant “earth box”. Sorry.
Later, d9
__________________
If the static level of the water table is defined by the medium and the medium alone, I cannot get my brain around why a smaller tail-piece vs. larger tail-piece will make a huge difference. Care to expand on that?
Thanks.
Thanks.
hi, the level of the "perched water table" is established by the fineness of the medium alone. diameter is not a factor here. cohesion and adhesion are. coco has about an 1.5" pwt.
what the sump does is move the pwt down out of the main grow container and by doing so reduces it's volume.
a 5 gal bucket at the bottom is 10.25" in diameter. so pi x r2 is 5.125 x 5.125 = 26.27 x 3.1416 = 82.53. 82.53 x height of the pwt in inches 1.5" = 123.8 cu inches divided by the number of cu inches in a gal 231 = .54 of a gal. a gal is 128 oz's. so .54 of a gal and the potential maximum volume of your pwt will be 69.12 oz's.
with a 3" sump using the same math the volume is 6.4 oz's. a vast improvement.
with a 1.5" sump the volume ends up being 1.28 oz's. all but eliminated.
your 3" sump might work fine but i sometimes feel the 1.5" one is too large.
my thinking on this is that the larger sump gives more opportunity for roots to grow into the reservoir.
it may not make much difference.
i'm about to post some pics of a monster that was grown with a 1.5" sump.
well, here it is. i am a little hesitant to post this weight because some people won't believe it. i am having trouble wrapping my little brain around this figure.
the first two pics are before defoliating at 21 days flower.
the second two are after.
the last four are just before cutting and trimming. the plant is still in the original 5 gal bucket it was grown in.
pics first.
the first two pics are before defoliating at 21 days flower.
the second two are after.
the last four are just before cutting and trimming. the plant is still in the original 5 gal bucket it was grown in.
pics first.
Last edited:
oldone
Member
Amazing work indeed.
D9 can you estimate how much light this plant received and how much canopy space it consumed?
She looks fantastic. I gotta read that whole defoliation thread. I'm at 23 days flower. Would you remind us what strain she is? And approx indica / sativa mix?
Congrats...you da man,
OO
D9 can you estimate how much light this plant received and how much canopy space it consumed?
She looks fantastic. I gotta read that whole defoliation thread. I'm at 23 days flower. Would you remind us what strain she is? And approx indica / sativa mix?
Congrats...you da man,
OO
hey, snowgro!
you left your plants alone for ten days and they were fine when you got back? fantastic!
notice the old stress factor going away? i have harvested every plant i put into one of these things. i think 47 of them at this point.
the first plant was 7.125 oz's and now four in a row over 11.96.
i think this plant is some kind of freak and don't really expect to repeat it often.
could you put up a pic or two of your plants? i would really like to see what they look like.
later
you left your plants alone for ten days and they were fine when you got back? fantastic!
notice the old stress factor going away? i have harvested every plant i put into one of these things. i think 47 of them at this point.
the first plant was 7.125 oz's and now four in a row over 11.96.
i think this plant is some kind of freak and don't really expect to repeat it often.
could you put up a pic or two of your plants? i would really like to see what they look like.
later
hey, it was grown with one side presented to the light, which means no turning or rotating. branches were bent forward towards the light, which in veg is a single 1k hps hortilux run bare.
the light is centered in the plant mass, which has the effect of limiting vertical growth as the sweet spot is below the top of the plant at all times.
it also decreases inter node spacing.
veg is 8 weeks.
in flower, the plant, which now is flat looking on the side away from the light and looks rather like a pregnant vertical scrog in front, is placed between two vertical 1k hps hortilux lamps in cool tubes 120 degrees apart. i run the foliage at 8" from the lamps. lamps are never adjusted.
by the end of stretch this plant was about 46" wide and 52" tall. i start bending branches down into the light field after defoliation.
supposedly this is sweet tooth #4. i got a 15 seed pack and spent two years isolating this expression, which i believe to be the "blueberry pheno".
well, thank you and later on.
editing to say that swt #4 is supposed to be around 90 % indica
