Snook
Still Learning
napa 8822.. and not all napa store cary their own brand of floor-dri (8822). I'm using it with the rice hulls. Works great but wish I could locate turface locally and give 'it' a go. I saw your link d9, none really local for me.
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passive plant killer
- Thread starter delta9nxs
- Start date
napa 8822.. and not all napa store cary their own brand of floor-dri (8822). I'm using it with the rice hulls. Works great but wish I could locate turface locally and give 'it' a go. I saw your link d9, none really local for me.
here is an analysis of new turface. these are almost all inert in final form. the Al is aluminum silicate.
Turface (beige, red) is an Illite calcined clay
Composition Mg/Kg:
Al : 6590
As : 8
Ba 124
Be : 0.7
Ca : 3640
Cd : 0
Co : 2.6
Cr : 15.8
Cu : 4.1
Fe : 10700
K : 3210
Mg :2730
Mn : 96
Na : 574
Ni : 11.8
Pb : 6.6
Sb : 0
Se : 0
Sn : 0
Ti : 0
V : 10.4
Zn : 33.4
Ag : 0
Turface (beige, red) is an Illite calcined clay
Composition Mg/Kg:
Al : 6590
As : 8
Ba 124
Be : 0.7
Ca : 3640
Cd : 0
Co : 2.6
Cr : 15.8
Cu : 4.1
Fe : 10700
K : 3210
Mg :2730
Mn : 96
Na : 574
Ni : 11.8
Pb : 6.6
Sb : 0
Se : 0
Sn : 0
Ti : 0
V : 10.4
Zn : 33.4
Ag : 0
Agsorb has a ton of technical data and more choices of sizes than anyone.
http://www.agsorb.com/pdfs/ms/MS_5-20_L_gray_red.pdf
This seems to be the largest one but I can't understand the actual sizes
Which mineral do we want though, the one from GA or MS
Montmorillonite – Agsorb from Ripley, MS is a Montmorillonite mineral in the non-swelling bentonite class. Its low bulk density and high absorbtivity allows higher liquid holding capacity. Our mineral processing maximizes the granule's micropore space. Agsorb heat treatments impart a hard inert granule with a high resistance to attrition.
Attapulgite – Agsorb from Ochlocknee, GA is a Attapulgite mineral in the non-swelling bentonite class. It is commonly called Fuller's earth. It's low bulk density and high absorbtivity allows higher liquid holding capacity. Our mineral processing maximizes the granule's micropore space. Agsorb heat treatments impart a hard inert granule with a high resistance to attrition.
Hydrous Aluminosilicate – Agsorb from Taft, CA is a Hydrous Aluminosilcate mineral. Its low bulk density and high absorbtivity allows higher liquid holding capacity. Our mineral processing maximizes the granule's micropore space. Agsorb heat treatments impart a hard inert granule with a high resistance to attrition. The unique properties of this mineral make it harder in its natural state than other RVM products.
http://www.agsorb.com/pdfs/ms/MS_5-20_L_gray_red.pdf
This seems to be the largest one but I can't understand the actual sizes
Which mineral do we want though, the one from GA or MS
Montmorillonite – Agsorb from Ripley, MS is a Montmorillonite mineral in the non-swelling bentonite class. Its low bulk density and high absorbtivity allows higher liquid holding capacity. Our mineral processing maximizes the granule's micropore space. Agsorb heat treatments impart a hard inert granule with a high resistance to attrition.
Attapulgite – Agsorb from Ochlocknee, GA is a Attapulgite mineral in the non-swelling bentonite class. It is commonly called Fuller's earth. It's low bulk density and high absorbtivity allows higher liquid holding capacity. Our mineral processing maximizes the granule's micropore space. Agsorb heat treatments impart a hard inert granule with a high resistance to attrition.
Hydrous Aluminosilicate – Agsorb from Taft, CA is a Hydrous Aluminosilcate mineral. Its low bulk density and high absorbtivity allows higher liquid holding capacity. Our mineral processing maximizes the granule's micropore space. Agsorb heat treatments impart a hard inert granule with a high resistance to attrition. The unique properties of this mineral make it harder in its natural state than other RVM products.
Yep...I love big threads like this.
thanks, snook! i corrected my post. glad you are here. reminds me to discuss the g13 a little more.
it does not like being defoliated at 21 days. it still grows nice bud but i'm waiting until the 5th or 6th week and getting better results. still dialing it in.
the plant with the large terminal buds shown above was hollowed out the last week of veg and large fully expanded fan leaves were removed weeks 3 and 4 of veg.
then left alone except for plucking a few more large light blockers until weeks 5-6 of flower.
it is advertised as a 9 week plant but i'm finding 10 weeks produces a better plant for me.
the high is potent and, like oatmeal, sticks to your ribs. last hours. mrs d, whose palate is better developed or not as ruined as mine, says it taste piney, with citrus undertones. i find it pleasant and smooth.
definitely a keeper plant. the chemdog x g13 cross is another big, stout, plant. haven't whacked one yet.
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nice finds! once kiln fired, all these clays behave the same. i haven't looked yet, of course, but if the particle sizes are good and there are no outright toxicities, they should work. the internal micro-porosity is what makes clays superior to perlite. and they have a usable cec.
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you are either a masochist or snowed in.
goddamn! is everyone here an insomniac?
hey, i just got gifted, along with bud samples of the same shit, about a 100 sour diesel seeds from humboldt county.
very nice smoke. i have never had a large group to make selections from before. i need to read up on the best way to do it. any pointers, anyone?
hey, i just got gifted, along with bud samples of the same shit, about a 100 sour diesel seeds from humboldt county.
very nice smoke. i have never had a large group to make selections from before. i need to read up on the best way to do it. any pointers, anyone?
stagehand099
Member
"i have never had a large group to make selections from before. i need to read up on the best way to do it. any pointers, anyone?"
Never grown it but from what I know of the variety, it would be, in order of importance: sexual stability-potency-yeild-odor in flower-structure. A lot of the SD I've gotten has been lightly seeded so herms are common in the line. Some of those sour diesels stink so bad they cut right through a $500 Mountain Air filter, I've heard. I wouldn't pop more than 20-25 at a time while hunting, either.....too hard to make objective choices, at least for me it is.
And yes, I am an insomniac, and it sucks....
stagehand
Never grown it but from what I know of the variety, it would be, in order of importance: sexual stability-potency-yeild-odor in flower-structure. A lot of the SD I've gotten has been lightly seeded so herms are common in the line. Some of those sour diesels stink so bad they cut right through a $500 Mountain Air filter, I've heard. I wouldn't pop more than 20-25 at a time while hunting, either.....too hard to make objective choices, at least for me it is.
And yes, I am an insomniac, and it sucks....
stagehand
Thanks, found diamond pro top dressing for $12 in stock. Somehow I had never seen those other major brands websites before. Diatomaceous earth just worries me a bit because it holds more water and the PH might be a bit off.
edit: The fiberglass screen seems to be around 1mm? I finally found the data on beamclay for Diamond Pro - the top dressing is 5/30 and the pro grade 8/16
5 - 4mm
30 - 0.6mm
8 - 2.36mm
16 - 1.18mm
I think
edit: The fiberglass screen seems to be around 1mm? I finally found the data on beamclay for Diamond Pro - the top dressing is 5/30 and the pro grade 8/16
5 - 4mm
30 - 0.6mm
8 - 2.36mm
16 - 1.18mm
I think
Hey D9,
Damn,
I just wiped out a long post asking about your flip project and bragging about how well my PPK's worked. Since I'm lazy, stoned and a really slow typist I'll just say, "Thanks buddy, you done good." So did I. I'm now the proud owner of a pile of very nice produce that is surprisingly excellent in quality for a rank noob.
I owe you big for designing and refining a cheap, easy, fool proof way to go so I'm passing this method on to a friend whose unfortunate wife has been recently diagnosed with MS and can get some relief beyond what my meager donations can provide.
Excuse the pun but your work is growing.
here's the link that might be helpful to some smaller scale farmers for sifting purposes
http://utahbiodieselsupply.com/filters5gallon.php
200 -100- 75 micron 5 gallon hard-shell bucket sieves for cheap. I have a old random orbital sander with a worn cam that now stinks for fine finish sanding but may make a nice shaker drum if mounted on a bucket lid...who knows? More mad science to take place, we'll see.
Bad news...
Wifey was a bit creeped out that my den closet is right next to the living room with all the holiday traffic so I've been banished to the back bedroom. Oh woe...what will I do with all that room...
( besides putting in a utility sink w/ hot and cold water)
Looks like I may get to build the 2 ballast 4 light air-cooled flip toolbox sooner rather than later and scale up a bit...
This farming thing is a lot of work. PPK's make the growing part stupid easy...It's the other work that's going to make me get off my lazy ass.
Cheers.
Damn,
I just wiped out a long post asking about your flip project and bragging about how well my PPK's worked. Since I'm lazy, stoned and a really slow typist I'll just say, "Thanks buddy, you done good." So did I. I'm now the proud owner of a pile of very nice produce that is surprisingly excellent in quality for a rank noob.
I owe you big for designing and refining a cheap, easy, fool proof way to go so I'm passing this method on to a friend whose unfortunate wife has been recently diagnosed with MS and can get some relief beyond what my meager donations can provide.
Excuse the pun but your work is growing.
here's the link that might be helpful to some smaller scale farmers for sifting purposes
http://utahbiodieselsupply.com/filters5gallon.php
200 -100- 75 micron 5 gallon hard-shell bucket sieves for cheap. I have a old random orbital sander with a worn cam that now stinks for fine finish sanding but may make a nice shaker drum if mounted on a bucket lid...who knows? More mad science to take place, we'll see.
Bad news...
Wifey was a bit creeped out that my den closet is right next to the living room with all the holiday traffic so I've been banished to the back bedroom. Oh woe...what will I do with all that room...
( besides putting in a utility sink w/ hot and cold water)Looks like I may get to build the 2 ballast 4 light air-cooled flip toolbox sooner rather than later and scale up a bit...
This farming thing is a lot of work. PPK's make the growing part stupid easy...It's the other work that's going to make me get off my lazy ass.
Cheers.
found more data on diamond pro vs Turface MVP vs pros choice, its some powerpoint presentation by pros choice in google docs. it only lists particle sizes for their product but...
Would the CEC of 7 instead of 13 be a good thing or is the 19 better? I don't think the hardness will matter much in this apllication, a little less absorption and a bit more dust should be ok.
12mesh ~1.5mm and 20mesh - 0.8mm
MVP® SIEVE ANALYSIS:
Typical
6 MESH 15.0%
8 MESH 31.5%
12 MESH 18.9%
20 MESH 30.9%
30 MESH 3.1%
40 MESH 0.5%
Pan 0.1%
so the 5/30 of diamond pro should be about the same sizes
Would the CEC of 7 instead of 13 be a good thing or is the 19 better? I don't think the hardness will matter much in this apllication, a little less absorption and a bit more dust should be ok.
12mesh ~1.5mm and 20mesh - 0.8mm
MVP® SIEVE ANALYSIS:
Typical
6 MESH 15.0%
8 MESH 31.5%
12 MESH 18.9%
20 MESH 30.9%
30 MESH 3.1%
40 MESH 0.5%
Pan 0.1%
so the 5/30 of diamond pro should be about the same sizes
mcfly, there is not enough difference in the cec's to make a difference and substance ph of calcined media is not an issue as there is little reaction. i once took some turface and rinsed/washed it several times in tap water and then ro water. got it really clean. then into a jar of ro water. left it in 3 months and got 30 ppm. starting water was around 5 ppm. ph did not change.
the diamond pro looks like it should work fine. just wash it good.
the diamond pro looks like it should work fine. just wash it good.
Hey D9,
Damn,
I just wiped out a long post asking about your flip project and bragging about how well my PPK's worked. Since I'm lazy, stoned and a really slow typist I'll just say, "Thanks buddy, you done good." So did I. I'm now the proud owner of a pile of very nice produce that is surprisingly excellent in quality for a rank noob.
I owe you big for designing and refining a cheap, easy, fool proof way to go so I'm passing this method on to a friend whose unfortunate wife has been recently diagnosed with MS and can get some relief beyond what my meager donations can provide.
Excuse the pun but your work is growing.
here's the link that might be helpful to some smaller scale farmers for sifting purposes
http://utahbiodieselsupply.com/filters5gallon.php
200 -100- 75 micron 5 gallon hard-shell bucket sieves for cheap. I have a old random orbital sander with a worn cam that now stinks for fine finish sanding but may make a nice shaker drum if mounted on a bucket lid...who knows? More mad science to take place, we'll see.
Bad news...
Wifey was a bit creeped out that my den closet is right next to the living room with all the holiday traffic so I've been banished to the back bedroom. Oh woe...what will I do with all that room...
Looks like I may get to build the 2 ballast 4 light air-cooled flip toolbox sooner rather than later and scale up a bit...
This farming thing is a lot of work. PPK's make the growing part stupid easy...It's the other work that's going to make me get off my lazy ass.
Cheers.
excellent! you don't have any pics, do you? i hope your friends wife finds some solace and comfort!
the link is great! did you see the filter bags? look like cheap bubble bags to me. i'm about to try co2 or rather dry ice to break the heads off rather than grinding in the blender.
the washing i do afterward gets it very clean but it would be nice not to have to wash it at all.
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I'm working on building a PPK and should have a thread w/ pics soon. A few observations from my experience trying to source everything and put everything together:
John Deere also raised their price in my area, $27.95 for a 50lb bag of Allsport. Luckily I am also able to source MVP locally at $8 per 50lb. Those that can't find MVP...I wouldn't bother with J.Deere and just go for the 8822. Readily available to just about everyone locally, larger overall particle size, better water retention and CEC.
Tire valves were a pain for me to find in bulk locally. Tire/auto stores that I went to either had bags of 500 and wouldn't sell me anything less or wouldn't give me a break for buying in bulk, charging about $60 for a box of 50. I was able to find a quantity of 50 for 6.95 online, quick shipping too. Feel free to PM me for the source. The valves I found are .625 but the length of the valve appears to be longer than what Delta uses.
Delta, man you must have some strength of herculean proportions to pull those valves through a 7/16" hole. Or it is infinitely more difficult to do with the longer valves. I ended up drilling 1/2" holes and using liquid detergent on the valves. Pulling with a gloved hand, still very difficult and bruised fingers. The plastic bulges to accommodate the valve even with 1/2" hole. No leaks whatsoever.
I'm using the 3-1 turface-rice hull mix and needed something to screen the sidewall holes of the top bucket to prevent the mix falling out. Bought some fiberglass window screen as recommended. Also tried a few using smartpots I had lying around with most of the bottom cut out for a lining. Easier, for me anyway, to keep in place while filling the buckets. I don't think the plunger effect will be slowed down using the smartpot vs. window screen. Time will tell. Mrs. Treebeard is going to sew me some liners out of landscaper fabric for the next run.
Delta9nxs, thank you so much for all of the work you've put into the system. I have to say that I think this is one of the most under-appreciated threads and designs on ICmag. I'm surprised we aren't seeing more PPK builds, but I'm sure many will soon catch wind of this thread and understand the benefits. Anyone that doubts turface/8822 as a great grow media should read around on the garden web forums. Lots of great information over there as well that isn't popular in conventional cannabis horticulture. We're very lucky to have someone like Delta to think outside the box.
Thanks again Delta and I look forward to contributing to the evolution of the PPK in any way I can.
John Deere also raised their price in my area, $27.95 for a 50lb bag of Allsport. Luckily I am also able to source MVP locally at $8 per 50lb. Those that can't find MVP...I wouldn't bother with J.Deere and just go for the 8822. Readily available to just about everyone locally, larger overall particle size, better water retention and CEC.
Tire valves were a pain for me to find in bulk locally. Tire/auto stores that I went to either had bags of 500 and wouldn't sell me anything less or wouldn't give me a break for buying in bulk, charging about $60 for a box of 50. I was able to find a quantity of 50 for 6.95 online, quick shipping too. Feel free to PM me for the source. The valves I found are .625 but the length of the valve appears to be longer than what Delta uses.
Delta, man you must have some strength of herculean proportions to pull those valves through a 7/16" hole. Or it is infinitely more difficult to do with the longer valves. I ended up drilling 1/2" holes and using liquid detergent on the valves. Pulling with a gloved hand, still very difficult and bruised fingers. The plastic bulges to accommodate the valve even with 1/2" hole. No leaks whatsoever.
I'm using the 3-1 turface-rice hull mix and needed something to screen the sidewall holes of the top bucket to prevent the mix falling out. Bought some fiberglass window screen as recommended. Also tried a few using smartpots I had lying around with most of the bottom cut out for a lining. Easier, for me anyway, to keep in place while filling the buckets. I don't think the plunger effect will be slowed down using the smartpot vs. window screen. Time will tell. Mrs. Treebeard is going to sew me some liners out of landscaper fabric for the next run.
Delta9nxs, thank you so much for all of the work you've put into the system. I have to say that I think this is one of the most under-appreciated threads and designs on ICmag. I'm surprised we aren't seeing more PPK builds, but I'm sure many will soon catch wind of this thread and understand the benefits. Anyone that doubts turface/8822 as a great grow media should read around on the garden web forums. Lots of great information over there as well that isn't popular in conventional cannabis horticulture. We're very lucky to have someone like Delta to think outside the box.
Thanks again Delta and I look forward to contributing to the evolution of the PPK in any way I can.
it just occurred to me that new people to this thread won't know how this plant was grown.
the device is the powered plant killer. version? who counts, but it's way up there what with all the small changes.
nutrients: jack's hydroponic special 5-12-26 with calcium nitrate. 600 ppm or ec 1.2 for life except for a brief foray up to 750 ppm in flower.
additives, enhancers, bud boosters, ph up, ph down: zero
lighting: in veg a single vertical bare 1k hps hortilux. in flower 2 vertical 1k hps hortilux with cooltubes. 2 lights and one plant at points of a triangle. lights are shared with other plants so each plant gets 1/4 of 1000 watts x 2 or 500 watts. plant was maintained at the distance necessary to achieve 1500 umols of photon flow to the closest part of the plant.
the medium is a mix of 3/1 turface/rice hulls.
the device is the powered plant killer. version? who counts, but it's way up there what with all the small changes.
nutrients: jack's hydroponic special 5-12-26 with calcium nitrate. 600 ppm or ec 1.2 for life except for a brief foray up to 750 ppm in flower.
additives, enhancers, bud boosters, ph up, ph down: zero
lighting: in veg a single vertical bare 1k hps hortilux. in flower 2 vertical 1k hps hortilux with cooltubes. 2 lights and one plant at points of a triangle. lights are shared with other plants so each plant gets 1/4 of 1000 watts x 2 or 500 watts. plant was maintained at the distance necessary to achieve 1500 umols of photon flow to the closest part of the plant.
the medium is a mix of 3/1 turface/rice hulls.
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hey, treebeard! welcome! thanks for the kind words!
when i bought my tire valves i made sure to tell them i was not going to use them for tires. i told them i was building an irrigation system. they kind of relaxed then. i think they don't want to help the competition.
well, good luck and holler if you need anything.
later
when i bought my tire valves i made sure to tell them i was not going to use them for tires. i told them i was building an irrigation system. they kind of relaxed then. i think they don't want to help the competition.
well, good luck and holler if you need anything.
later
Snook
Still Learning
This thread just goes everywhere... what now? So now with all this time I'm not spending on growing DWC, I can consentrate on making BIODIESEL! maybe buy a diesel automobile!? Onto BIODIESEL production! >>> Diesel, SourDiesel, NYCDiesel, ECSourDiesel.. Does anyone call their seeds BIODIESEL? a combination of 2 diesel strains! of course. HAHA! Thanks creosote!!!!
