Outback Haze #8 x Silk Haze S

[Stoneguru]

This is a collaboration Dwight Diotte and I had been planning on for awhile and finally got to. Nevil had sent him over 40 Outback Haze (NH21/'78 Thai X NH36) before he passed.
Dwight Selected these down to several keepers that exemplified the line.

SILK S haze is an outlier from Nigerian Silk and NL5 crosses that favor the original 5haze release. An extremely dank frankincense that retains the pleasurable energetic waves associated with the old Nigerian Silk clone only. I think this cut still holds the highest ocimene, Eucalyptol and CBG recorded at piffcon.

As a whole the Incenses associated with the original 5haze are not as dominant in the Nevil's Haze that Outback was selected from as well as a few other characteristics such as the mutations. Together this contrast of distant haze selections should make for some unique recombinations.

Here is the Nevil's Haze 21 in Outback.

Dwights #8 sure seems to favor NH21 on structure, lateral branching and flower formation.

This trait passed along to these testers while Silk Haze S's original 5haze mutations did as well.

One of them has the Nigerian Silk Haze mutations which are slightly different.

Hazy Arachnids

Regarding traits, high analytics and excellent Genetics this is a very exciting cross. 2 weeks into stretch

 

[Creeperpark]

This is a collaboration Dwight Diotte and I had been planning on for awhile and finally got to. Nevil had sent him over 40 Outback Haze (NH21/'78 Thai X NH36) before he passed.
Dwight Selected these down to several keepers that exemplified the line.

SILK S haze is an outlier from Nigerian Silk and NL5 crosses that favor the original 5haze release. An extremely dank frankincense that retains the pleasurable energetic waves associated with the old Nigerian Silk clone only. I think this cut still holds the highest ocimene, Eucalyptol and CBG recorded at piffcon.

As a whole the Incenses associated with the original 5haze are not as dominant in the Nevil's Haze that Outback was selected from as well as a few other characteristics such as the mutations. Together this contrast of distant haze selections should make for some unique recombinations.

Here is the Nevil's Haze 21 in Outback.
View attachment 19108368
Dwights #8 sure seems to favor NH21 on structure, lateral branching and flower formation. View attachment 19108369
This trait passed along to these testers while Silk Haze S's original 5haze mutations did as well.
View attachment 19108371

One of them has the Nigerian Silk Haze mutations which are slightly different.

View attachment 19108372

Hazy Arachnids

View attachment 19108377


Regarding traits, high analytics and excellent Genetics this is a very exciting cross. 2 weeks into stretch

Those are kick-ass-looking friend, Damn. You are doing a good job with this difficult strain. Are you growing in a soil-less mix?

 

[Stoneguru]

Those are kick-ass-looking friend, Damn. You are doing a good job with this difficult strain. Are you growing in a soil-less mix?

Thank you! It's an organic build a soil type blend. The top one is Nevil's then Dwight's and the last 3 are mine. I almost burned them with N topdress going into stretch. About 70% perlite, peat, coir 15% worm casting 15% compost. Various top dresses by stage. Mulched in rice hulls, Water in fulvic acids, cal/mag. LED lights.

 

[Stoneguru]

Dwights Outback Haze #8 is giving some serious arms to the Outback Silk Haze.

Silk Haze S is as vigorous and similar stature at this stage, but much more branchy like this Outback Silk #2

His resembles the NH21 with its columnar bats. Symmetrical arborvitaes in all directions. I think it will offer better light penetration through the canopy. It's really fun seeing these characteristics coming together.

 

[Stoneguru]

week 7. ×7-8 stretch. Sharp Eucalyptus pine and ocimene (frankincense) all started coming out in the last 3 days. No Trichomes visible yet.

About 2 more months of flowering to see how this develops. As of right now (which is way to early). This is what I have been looking for. No savory, leather mango or fruit. This is refined penetrating top notes with what will be clean dank frankincense base. The high ocimene hazes are detectable before trichome development. A sweet herbaceous note.

 

[Stoneguru]

I am pretty excited about this season. Most of the parental lines of both sides will have been selected and built in house with the backdrop of testing and understanding on how each performed in various crosses.

Today the Alpine 1.0 K2 x JJ's Nigerian F1 soaked.

I couldn't even give these testers away and I tried

The K2 was in my top 3 favorites finds of around ~140. She was 1 of only 3 that made it through the final elimination round.

The high is surging and soaring. Pure energy, with laser focus. It feels like you could do anything. No confusion, very positive. Energy in waves bouncing from solar plexus to 3rd eye.

I smell fresh hazy fruit, my wife says clean like blue spruce trees. She leans to the male Buzzsaw, but still fills the room with Silk S frankincense.

The JJ's Nigerian. (Nigerian Silk x Pre-'90 NL5/Haze male C male) is sibling to JJ's selection. The progeny and outcrosses from his selection of this line have ranked in all 3 years of piffcon for good reason. Both parents of K2 are related the JJ's selection as well.

The 4 JJ's Nigerian females have a nice range of types in the pine and deep incense, but different than Alpine 1.0 at mid-flower. Larger trichome heads than Outback Haze as well. At least at this stage. I'll get better pictures when they flower more, but 100% have the associated 5haze male C mutation.

JJ's Nigerian really was a unique make. I do not know of anyone else who took an original NL5 x Haze male C outcrossed to 100% sativa landrace and then made it available. Most selected to NL, outcrossed to BLD or further inbred.

This is very Similar to what Nevil did in creating the Outback haze only he put it to a Thai. Nigerian is old. I might be mistaken, but I think most Caribbean and Central/South American lines are descendants of this region of Africa.

I ended up forcing a couple of these packs of Alpine K2 x JJ's Nigerian onto some friends, by sneaking them in...my guess is that after I try them it will be like Alpine 1.0 and I'll want to hunt the whole collection again and not let many out.

I don't pollinate whole plants. I pollinate a branch of every variation of everything I do of interest. That is often under 100 seed of any given project.

The 2 Diotte Outback Haze #8 x Silk S that favor the NH21 structure.

The Outback Haze somewhat surprised me. Most of the haze I am working with are relatively light feeders, but the Outback seem to like more Nitrogen. I'm about maxed on Calmag as well.

Maybe @hempy has some insight? Is the Thai heavier than haze on N? Maybe it's just the selection. Not much to report on these 2. They will land somewhere over 16W and have the structure to support whatever lands on them.

This is the Ocimene Silk S dominant Outback Silk.

The ocimene on this one is at least as high as Silk S. It will be dank AF frankincense, but this plant is far more complex in depth. Silk S is a breeder for its unique solo additive traits. It can let the other parent express itself well in most crosses.

This one is a Eucalyptus/camphor pine nose burner. She cleans and opens the sinuses like Vicks vapor rub.

The rest of the Outback Silk are balanced synergized, but more or less remind me of ideal commercial haze hybrids that will land 13-14w.

The Outbacks are each getting Branches isolated for the last of the JJ's Nigerian Male pollen. Unfortunately the clone failed.

As I mentioned. There is a really nice range between Nigerian Silk and 5haze C in JJ's Nigerian F1.

The Outback are said to favor male A in some respects and Nevil's Haze was limited in Male C qualities. Simply by having a 5C/C being selected at all. It doubled down on a type and there by reduced the other expressions within C...like the chemical fuel type that I mention. A screamer that is behind the best Diesels and Chems.

My hope is that hitting all the Outbacks with the Male C side from a different sibling will tease up a lot of new/old stuff. Double Outback In front sideways haze.

Anyway. The Alpine K2 x JJ's Nigerian will be the first peak at what this male can do. From there the parental lines will have all been selected and built in house for multiple generations.

It will really be the beginning of an even deeper level of observation and experience.

Tomorrow the dusting for:

((NH21x×'78thai/NH36)× Mango Silk {Silk S}) × (Alpine Haze 1.0 {K2} × (Nigerian Silk x pre-'90 NL5 haze {Male C} F1))

 

[ojd]

I got to say you've definitely seem to stretch or embellish alot of the real truth with your post

In your 1st post of Dwights Outback Haze pic ( 2nd pic ) and Nevil's Original NH21 x Mullumbimby Madness( 1st pic) pic they don't look alike at all , Dwights looks like has NL5 or afghani in there, look at the rounded tops on all buds , and rounded buds all along stems , where the NH21 x Mullumbimby Madness is much more foxtailed if you look closely and tops thin out ( you sure that is the pure Outback ?) not Outback x NL5 that Dwight sent several breeders and you as pure Outback (until I called it out online as not being pure Outback) and then after that all breeders and yourself changed it to Outback/NL description.



Also you always leave the info out that you only flowered 20 of the Silks out of the 120 seeds you run, disregarding all other 100 before even flowering , so basically was just 20 plants you flowered and picke your keeper from no ?
Still cool to select from 20 but why do you leave out most of your storys and try embellished everything out stating 120 plants ?

I've done alot of work with the NH21 x Mullumbimby Madness strain, F2's, S1's, hybrids Regular and Feminized and grows way more Haze/foxtail looking than the Dwight Outback pics

Again both phenos of the Outback x silk of yours you posted have the rounded tops, not the foxtail or skinnier tops like the NH21 x Mullumbimby Madness is known for

Honestly look at that lineage you wrote in last post at bottom and how is something that extreme Sativa growing that rounded NL5 main top of bud look , compare to Exotics Sativa's ?
I've x Outback with Chem d x Original Diesel and looks 10 x more Sativa on every pheno ?
And the Outback Haze x NH21 x Mullumbimby Madness is 100% Sativa looking, not a round bud in sight

 

[Stoneguru]

OJD. It looks like you have created another teachable moment.

It goes without saying that being able to accurately identify the morphology of plant traits is essential. This is even true for a closet hobby breeder.

We all know Nevil's haze A and C were crossed to NL5. As a result being able to ACCURATELY distinguish and differentiate NL is a 101 qualifier for anyone working with Nevil's haze genetics. This has been the case for 30 years.

Dwights looks like has NL5 or afghani in there, look at the rounded tops on all buds

Let's review. Feel free to bookmark this and use it as primer/reference moving forward.

The plant Nevil's NL5 was based off.
(O pay attention to the structure to keep up).

There were other early NL such as the '84NL. A plant which was around at least as long as Nevil's. Possibly a sibling. Notice those pinwheel flowerets with a Flat trident top.

-gas '84nl

Or perhaps the NL5 itself. Well what do ya know ojd?!

It's that flat top pinwheel morphology again...and the structure.

NL5 also has the Afghan typical high leaf to calyx ratio. Column tight buds with a top tuft like the one he based his off of.

Gaining hands on experience is very helpful. Understanding what you are selecting against is as important as what you are selecting for.

With experience you'll notice those flat top afghan pinwheels pop up often in NL and stay fairly consistent in Fgen. Round tops?. Lol ok

Anyone who has grown NL out learns to identify their morphology relatively quickly and then can distinguish it from haze.

-gas '84nl f3

Once you gain experience you'll notice that Afghan/NL consistently have a high leaf to calyx ratio relative to haze. Yet, the NL morphology can still be noticed in a haze cross. Even a cup winning cross.

-NL5 x Haze cup cut

There are older classic NL5 Haze cuts like the Cuban Black Haze. A very short production type haze with an NL influence and effect. It still has nuances of haze and been very influential cut. The NL morphology remains noticable.

-Cuban Black Haze

CBH was crossed with A5 and won this years Piffcon. Bandaid haze has longer foxtails.

Longer foxtails and flowering time have nothing do not insure the quality of the smoke btw.

The B7 added more haze profile and potency in a relatively short manageable package that has been welcomed by the community for good reason. Still. the effect and morphology...NL has its influence.

-docs Bandaid 7

Another thing breeders gain through experience is the understanding that that morphology or visible plant traits are different than metabolic traits.

No one who takes themselves seriously disqualifies or qualifies it because of a picture because all pictures smoke about as good as the paper they are printed on.

Cannabis breeding is a shotgun approach and through familiarity with all parental traits a breeder can get a tighter pattern on their target. Each marker being only one step of a hundred steps from the smoke test that actually qualifies.

 

[Stoneguru]

OJD. It looks like you have created another teachable moment.

It goes without saying that being able to accurately identify the morphology and structure of plant traits is essential. This is even true for a closet hobby breeder.

We all know Nevil's haze A and C were crossed to NL5. As a result being able to ACCURATELY distinguish and differentiate NL is a 101 qualifier for anyone working with Nevil's haze genetics. This has been the case for 30 years.


Let's review. Feel free to bookmark this and use it as primer moving forward.

The plant Nevil's NL5 was based off.
(You'll need to pay attention to the structure to keep up).
View attachment 19118349

There were other early NL such as the '84NL. A plant which was around at least as long as Nevil's. Possibly a sibling. Notice those pinwheel flowerets with a Flat trident top.

-gas '84nl
View attachment 19118350

Or perhaps the NL5 itself. Well look at that!

It's that flat top pinwheel morphology again...and the structure. NL5 also has the Afghan typical high leaf to calyx ratio. Column tight buds with a top tuft like the one he based his off of.

View attachment 19118351

Gaining hands on experience is very helpful. Understanding what you are selecting against is as important as what you are selecting for.

With experience you'll notice those flat top afghan pinwheels pop up often in NL and stay fairly consistent in Fgen. Anyone who has grown it out any learns to identify their morphology relatively quickly.

-gas '84nl f3
View attachment 19118359

Once you gain experience you'll notice that Afghan/NL consistently have a high leaf to calyx ratio relative to haze. Yet, the NL morphology can still be noticed in a haze cross. Even a cup winning cross.

-NL5 x Haze cup cut
View attachment 19118360

There are older classic NL5 Haze cuts like the Cuban Black Haze. A very short production type with an NL influence and effect it still has nuances of haze and been very influential. The NL morphology remains noticable.

-Cuban Black Haze
View attachment 19118361

CBH was taken to A5 and won this years Piffcon. Bandaid haze has More foxtails. More haze profile and potency in a relatively short manageable package that has been welcomed by the community for good reason. Still. the effect and morphology...NL has its influence.

-docs Bandaid 7
View attachment 19118408

Another thing that experienced breeders learn it that morphology or visible plant traits are different than metabolic traits.

No one who takes themselves seriously disqualifies or qualifies it because of a picture because all pictures smoke about as good as the paper they are printed on.

Cannabis breeding is a shotgun approach and through familiarity with all parental traits a breeder can get a tighter pattern on their target. Each marker being only one step of a hundred steps from the smoke test that actually qualifies.

Where was I...

Honestly look at that lineage you wrote in last post at bottom and how is something that extreme Sativa growing that rounded NL5 main top of bud look , compare to Exotics Sativa's ?

Helping guide you to a better understanding of sativa vs Afghani, haze vs NL so you can identify traits.

Those rounded tops...like Isaac Haze C5/C?

Well, like Dwight's selection of Outback haze.

The sativa's that build haze such as Colombian

Of Thai's like @HEMPY's . It can be seen that the calyx and bract ratios are very high relative to leaf and certainly high relative to NL.

If you become familiar with this along with the flower structure you notice that Dwight selection is of the highest haze/sativa morphology. Why wouldn't it be. He has ×20 more seed to select through

I don't know why your always hoping on people's threads criticizing them? Poor ol' Tom just trying to give the world haze and you bust his balls about leaves? Notice Hempy's pure '78 Thai. Fairly wide fans. If you paid attention to them or learned or even read Clarks you would know the narrower the leaf may as well select to hemp.

This binary long flower, narrow leaf stem rub rubbish has bred most haze to shit. The most distinguished profiles of haze are solely in trichome metabolics, but who doesn't love a good stem rub

I could carry on, but the point is your comments reveal you don't really even understand how to identify NL let alone identify Haze. You disqualify and qualify on singular traits taking single steps and think you are shooting with a high caliber.

Your same lack of due diligence on research shows in your critique of me. I never culled an Alpine 1.0 hunt. It was 6 rounds averaging 20 over 2 years documented with a final of 12 into an elimination round that ended with 3.

I haven't spent time on your threads for years, but when I did I did not see multi packs grows tested and documented in house with transparent real time work. Has anyone else seen you doing the work?

I don't know or care, because my concern and focus is my own work and passion, not yours.

That said. You have more that disqualified yourself from making determinations and criticism of others.

The NH21 x MM didnt meet Nevil's standards btw. It overtook the haze rather than properly preserve it. It's why he moved on to outback, because the others did not meet his goals and standards.

I may have been incorrect that this was the NH21. The structure of the plant is what was referenced as being NH21.

A contrast to NH21 x MM

The idea that you are disqualifying a plant on morphology in the first place is inexperienced, insecure and childish.

One plant is grow indoors and the other out. These are not clones or GMO corn @ojd it's cannabis. Further, they are at different stages of growth and beyond that. Morphology does not directly result in metabolics. These are 2 different fields of study.

Look, you and I are just blokes off the internet. No personal relationship with Nevil like Dwight. They were friends for 30 years. Had each other's phone numbers. Of course Dwight has the best of what Nevil made and the knowledge and count to select.

What's Next? will you say clockwise spirals spears are NL and counterclockwise are haze?

It's like a toilet. One was grown down under and the other up north. On that note I am ready to flush this conversation. Hopefully you learned something helpful.

Go enjoy your own garden and find peace and fulfillment their rather than putting everyone else down.