joaquin386
Active member
Ok didn't know he wanted to patent the idea. Good enough. Thought dry sifting was a "standard" process to follow.
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Origins Of The Species....by R.C.Clarke (Excellent Read)
- Thread starter Capt. Crip
- Start date
That sounds like the best way Chamba. It really must be irritating to clarify same things over & over....
G
Guest
Great article, thx for posting CC!
G
Guest
TomHill said:
Lets not get to far ahead of ourselves now Tom.
TomHill said:
I haven't ever expierenced any Afghani's or Pakistanis that are Thai like but they do sound interesting, as long as they don't have the heavy chest, heart pounding stone as well. I prefer sativas, but a nice relaxing indica that doesn't make me stupid or hungover is always nice for night time or a rainy day. If I want to feel loaded (sorry Sam, this term describes it so well as you put it) or drugged, I would go buy beer or liquor or I would be a junkie, niether appeal to me though.
It's unfortunate that the market dictates that we have lots of fast, potent, boring and often flavourless strains. If people here just think it's just with cannabis, look around at your grocery store, same things are happening. Why do you they build vegetable greenhouses in Mexico? The market dictates what people produce rather than what has better value for you.
I think that globalization has hurt the human race more than anything else, without it, we'd have to do more things on our own (Countries, continents). But some people like boring, flavourless in their life and good for them, I will just try to convince them of otherwise
Sorry if this is too off topic, just seemed appropriate.
It's unfortunate that the market dictates that we have lots of fast, potent, boring and often flavourless strains. If people here just think it's just with cannabis, look around at your grocery store, same things are happening. Why do you they build vegetable greenhouses in Mexico? The market dictates what people produce rather than what has better value for you.
I think that globalization has hurt the human race more than anything else, without it, we'd have to do more things on our own (Countries, continents). But some people like boring, flavourless in their life and good for them, I will just try to convince them of otherwise
Sorry if this is too off topic, just seemed appropriate.
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Hi Sam
Actually, though I was far from clear on the matter, I was hoping for a short discussion regarding some of the other virtues of indica (without your preferences getting in the way ), & possible reasoning behind its persistence in the Pacific Northwest etc. Something to include a bit more than early maturation & staying short enough so the neighbors can't see it over the fence. To leave it at that is well short in my opinion, to put it as mildly as possible. I actually prefer a good haze too when I'm lucky enough to find one, but I don't believe, as many others do, that preferences have much to do with the persistence of indica. I tried to explain my thinking previously in this thread but without much success I guess.
People continue to talk about this as if there was a choice in the matter. Let me ask you, how long would you be growing sativas if you were forced to grow them under florescent shop lights alone? Long enough to grow a crop of only leaf before rethinking your strategy I'd imagine. This is exactly what it was like for hundreds of thousands or more of growers for most of the 80's & 90's in the shade of tree cover, there was not much choice in the matter. Indica & indica leaning hybrids work well in this low light scenario, & sativas don't work at all. If you were holding a hybrid that had all of the virtues of your sativa head, but several fold the resin yield, would you turn your nose up at it? I know I wouldn't, it's exactly what I'm looking for. All things being the same, I also believe I'd prefer heavy buds over wispy ones. Indica sativa hybrids make all of this possible. I suppose it was only an article & maybe I expected too much being so. I'll clean some of my earlier post but I can't retract my reaction to this article. I thought it showed a very surprising lack of scope.
PS, You'll be happy to hear that many folks back in the PNW are back in the sun over the last decade or so & sativas are making a big comeback. That's indica/sativa hybrids heavy on the sativa I mean, we're not stupid.
Actually, though I was far from clear on the matter, I was hoping for a short discussion regarding some of the other virtues of indica (without your preferences getting in the way
), & possible reasoning behind its persistence in the Pacific Northwest etc. Something to include a bit more than early maturation & staying short enough so the neighbors can't see it over the fence. To leave it at that is well short in my opinion, to put it as mildly as possible. I actually prefer a good haze too when I'm lucky enough to find one, but I don't believe, as many others do, that preferences have much to do with the persistence of indica. I tried to explain my thinking previously in this thread but without much success I guess. People continue to talk about this as if there was a choice in the matter. Let me ask you, how long would you be growing sativas if you were forced to grow them under florescent shop lights alone? Long enough to grow a crop of only leaf before rethinking your strategy I'd imagine. This is exactly what it was like for hundreds of thousands or more of growers for most of the 80's & 90's in the shade of tree cover, there was not much choice in the matter. Indica & indica leaning hybrids work well in this low light scenario, & sativas don't work at all. If you were holding a hybrid that had all of the virtues of your sativa head, but several fold the resin yield, would you turn your nose up at it? I know I wouldn't, it's exactly what I'm looking for. All things being the same, I also believe I'd prefer heavy buds over wispy ones. Indica sativa hybrids make all of this possible. I suppose it was only an article & maybe I expected too much being so. I'll clean some of my earlier post but I can't retract my reaction to this article. I thought it showed a very surprising lack of scope.
PS, You'll be happy to hear that many folks back in the PNW are back in the sun over the last decade or so & sativas are making a big comeback. That's indica/sativa hybrids heavy on the sativa I mean, we're not stupid.
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Hello Tom,
I disagree that only Indicas can be grown in low light. I have grown many Sativas under low light and got great results. I will admit that even though the quality was about the same the yields were lower.
My problem with Indica's and most of their hybrids is the high, I don't like couchlock at all, and I don't like ceilings like I find in many Indica's, you can reach a point smoking where even if you smoke a big bowl, you do not get higher, more loaded maybe..
I like Sativas that have no ceilings at all, every time you fire some up you get higher, everytime! Even if you have been smoking all day. It is hard to find Indicas like this.
I think RCC's opinion is much the same but I do not speak for RCC.
You must remember that yes Indica is here to stay because of what you said and because it is a plant covered with resin and it looks great in the bag.
The problem for me has been to find Indica/Sativa hybrids that "had all of the virtues of your sativa head, but several fold the resin yield, would you turn your nose up at it?"
My problem is that a Indica/Sativa hybrid is never just like the Sativa but with several fold of the resin yield, it also has some Terpenoids from the Indica's, and that is where the high gets changed to something I don't like. I have never had an Indica or even an Indica/Saiva hybrid that was exactly like a Sativa in high or taste, have you? I do think it is possible, but few exist. Compare any Indica/Sativa hybrid to the original Sativa mom and you can taste and smell and feel the differences in the high righ away.
Anyway I am not trying to knock Indica, it is a valuable gene source, for some traits that can be used for Cannabis.
But let me tell you a story from long ago...
I was in Goa in 1971 comparing top notch Afghani to top notch Nepali and I noticed that the Afghani was stronger and seemed purer less debris then the hand rubbed Nepali, but at the same time the Nepali hand rubbed from Sativa plants was a bit more up then the Afghani dry sifted resin from Indica plants. Yes the Afghani was stronger, but some people prefered the Nepali because the high was more of an up high.
Anyway Tom keep looking for Indica/Sativa hybrids that have the structure of Indicas with the taste and high of your best Sativa's, I know they can be found you just need to grow lots of F2's and you will find them.
All the best,
-SamS
I disagree that only Indicas can be grown in low light. I have grown many Sativas under low light and got great results. I will admit that even though the quality was about the same the yields were lower.
My problem with Indica's and most of their hybrids is the high, I don't like couchlock at all, and I don't like ceilings like I find in many Indica's, you can reach a point smoking where even if you smoke a big bowl, you do not get higher, more loaded maybe..
I like Sativas that have no ceilings at all, every time you fire some up you get higher, everytime! Even if you have been smoking all day. It is hard to find Indicas like this.
I think RCC's opinion is much the same but I do not speak for RCC.
You must remember that yes Indica is here to stay because of what you said and because it is a plant covered with resin and it looks great in the bag.
The problem for me has been to find Indica/Sativa hybrids that "had all of the virtues of your sativa head, but several fold the resin yield, would you turn your nose up at it?"
My problem is that a Indica/Sativa hybrid is never just like the Sativa but with several fold of the resin yield, it also has some Terpenoids from the Indica's, and that is where the high gets changed to something I don't like. I have never had an Indica or even an Indica/Saiva hybrid that was exactly like a Sativa in high or taste, have you? I do think it is possible, but few exist. Compare any Indica/Sativa hybrid to the original Sativa mom and you can taste and smell and feel the differences in the high righ away.
Anyway I am not trying to knock Indica, it is a valuable gene source, for some traits that can be used for Cannabis.
But let me tell you a story from long ago...
I was in Goa in 1971 comparing top notch Afghani to top notch Nepali and I noticed that the Afghani was stronger and seemed purer less debris then the hand rubbed Nepali, but at the same time the Nepali hand rubbed from Sativa plants was a bit more up then the Afghani dry sifted resin from Indica plants. Yes the Afghani was stronger, but some people prefered the Nepali because the high was more of an up high.
Anyway Tom keep looking for Indica/Sativa hybrids that have the structure of Indicas with the taste and high of your best Sativa's, I know they can be found you just need to grow lots of F2's and you will find them.
All the best,
-SamS
Hi again Sam,
I'm curious as to the parameters of your low light experiments. From sexually mature clone? Indoors? I'd like to go a little further, I may have misspoken before. Growing sativa under the trees is not as bad as growing them under fluorescents. It's much worse as there are time/weather constraints & declining daylight hours to deal with. In my experience these things effect quality. I often hear oldtimers discuss how the sativas grown domestically are not as good as when grown in their regions of origin. Of course they're not, finishing up with 10 hours of late fall light & low temps. They may be surprised at how well sativas can do in a blackout situation domestically @ 12-13 hours of direct overhead/uv summer light -resin bombs- & I'll risk upsetting the folks who feel it has anything to do with the magic of the region of origin & say that plants grown domestically in this manner can surpass the quality of the originals. Put it in the shade & it does extremely poor though man. You agree that light intensity & temperature greatly effect the rate of cannabis maturation I assume. We might get a plant to go from seed to showing sex in 4-5 weeks with 1000w lamps in a warm environment. The same plant might take 7-8 weeks in a cooler room under fluorescents. What kind of sativas are we talking? The quickest I've seen haze or thai sex & be able to induce flowering from seed is probably around 5 months under glass in decent sun. Take away the heat & intensity & that period is quite a bit further out. the problem seems to be that every phase seems to slow down & take longer & become nigh impossible to finish. The mid September indica becomes the mid October indica under the trees. I've grown haze in the shade into December (mid April start from seed) with little more than prefloral growth on them & a severe lack of resin. The same plant in decent sun is being enjoyed in the pipe by then. I guess I'm not saying that you can't grow them in low light/temp conditions but it takes more time than anybody but the indoor or tropical grower can afford in my experience.
I do believe I have a very cerebral & up indica in the afghan that I have by the way, this is why I saved it, not for the low yields of leafy bud- though you might dissagree upon smoking it- I don't know. At any rate, I am no fan of couchlock indicas either.
Best Regards,
Tom
I'm curious as to the parameters of your low light experiments. From sexually mature clone? Indoors? I'd like to go a little further, I may have misspoken before. Growing sativa under the trees is not as bad as growing them under fluorescents. It's much worse as there are time/weather constraints & declining daylight hours to deal with. In my experience these things effect quality. I often hear oldtimers discuss how the sativas grown domestically are not as good as when grown in their regions of origin. Of course they're not, finishing up with 10 hours of late fall light & low temps. They may be surprised at how well sativas can do in a blackout situation domestically @ 12-13 hours of direct overhead/uv summer light -resin bombs- & I'll risk upsetting the folks who feel it has anything to do with the magic of the region of origin & say that plants grown domestically in this manner can surpass the quality of the originals. Put it in the shade & it does extremely poor though man. You agree that light intensity & temperature greatly effect the rate of cannabis maturation I assume. We might get a plant to go from seed to showing sex in 4-5 weeks with 1000w lamps in a warm environment. The same plant might take 7-8 weeks in a cooler room under fluorescents. What kind of sativas are we talking? The quickest I've seen haze or thai sex & be able to induce flowering from seed is probably around 5 months under glass in decent sun. Take away the heat & intensity & that period is quite a bit further out. the problem seems to be that every phase seems to slow down & take longer & become nigh impossible to finish. The mid September indica becomes the mid October indica under the trees. I've grown haze in the shade into December (mid April start from seed) with little more than prefloral growth on them & a severe lack of resin. The same plant in decent sun is being enjoyed in the pipe by then. I guess I'm not saying that you can't grow them in low light/temp conditions but it takes more time than anybody but the indoor or tropical grower can afford in my experience.
I do believe I have a very cerebral & up indica in the afghan that I have by the way, this is why I saved it, not for the low yields of leafy bud- though you might dissagree upon smoking it- I don't know. At any rate, I am no fan of couchlock indicas either.
Best Regards,
Tom
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D
Dalaihempy
You know guys most think growing sativas indoors is going to give less potent produce than if the same plant was grown under sun lite wrong they also they think that growing a pure sativa or heavy sativa hybrid directly under 12/12 with no 18 lites on in short no vegg will also grow out less potent flower all lies.
Pure sativas or heavy sativa hybrids don't need high intensity lite in flower but give them all you like in vegg but once they start to flower you will be doing your self no favors by giving them direct high intense liteing i run 40 watts max per sq ft and still place my sativas or heavy sat lines to the outer side of the space or if under the lite i train away from the lite.
All you will do is cause your flowers to run and never fill out right if you let the flowers get to close to the intense lite.
Lots think its heat its not its the lite that causes sativa flowers to run go back to a semi vegg like state or look very airy.
Cold temps will slow any plants growth but if a sativas in full flower been in flower some time you will see that the flowers still fill out but what we call cold is mild to most if not tempret but cold nights and mild temps threw the day is fine for them.
Most people grow sativas in forests even if they seek out a clearing the plants will still only get so much direct sun lite threw the day and most of the day lite hours will be growing in shad yet still grow large and pack on the yield .
From my experience on line few people understand sativas less people can grow them as there meant to and i would bet even the most indica loveing smoker would smoke a good quality sativa over any of the indicas they can get hold of to grow if they were available how many real old school sativas are available for sale ?...... Few if any.
Most are hybrids of sativas or say 2 pure sativa lines breed and called a sativa and so on few if any sell pure lines and that is very sad.
My personal experience tells me the best sativa type lines available today commercially are haze hybrids hands down and thats as good as it will get unless people who have pure lines start to put them on the market.
People are doing no one or the plant any favors by hurding genetics and there doing the plant no favors by posting info that is wrong not directed at you guys by the way but you 2 know what I'm talking about how many times have you read info from people that claim to be sativa growers and you sit there thing wtf lots right.
Pure sativas or heavy sativa hybrids don't need high intensity lite in flower but give them all you like in vegg but once they start to flower you will be doing your self no favors by giving them direct high intense liteing i run 40 watts max per sq ft and still place my sativas or heavy sat lines to the outer side of the space or if under the lite i train away from the lite.
All you will do is cause your flowers to run and never fill out right if you let the flowers get to close to the intense lite.
Lots think its heat its not its the lite that causes sativa flowers to run go back to a semi vegg like state or look very airy.
Cold temps will slow any plants growth but if a sativas in full flower been in flower some time you will see that the flowers still fill out but what we call cold is mild to most if not tempret but cold nights and mild temps threw the day is fine for them.
Most people grow sativas in forests even if they seek out a clearing the plants will still only get so much direct sun lite threw the day and most of the day lite hours will be growing in shad yet still grow large and pack on the yield .
From my experience on line few people understand sativas less people can grow them as there meant to and i would bet even the most indica loveing smoker would smoke a good quality sativa over any of the indicas they can get hold of to grow if they were available how many real old school sativas are available for sale ?...... Few if any.
Most are hybrids of sativas or say 2 pure sativa lines breed and called a sativa and so on few if any sell pure lines and that is very sad.
My personal experience tells me the best sativa type lines available today commercially are haze hybrids hands down and thats as good as it will get unless people who have pure lines start to put them on the market.
People are doing no one or the plant any favors by hurding genetics and there doing the plant no favors by posting info that is wrong not directed at you guys by the way but you 2 know what I'm talking about how many times have you read info from people that claim to be sativa growers and you sit there thing wtf lots right.
E
ElectroSticky
i know how to grow clones from big mature mothers ,,
dont mather indica or sativa , it is hydro on rockwool , co2 ,a/c,indoor off course , and once it roots and stretches ,, it all flowers , and it is all goood , but im sure u knew that..
i must say the
is there in all of them ... good quality..
and as far for SATIVAS IN LOW LIGHT ,, as long as she is a pure blood ,, she will
dunno if these really helps or not but , tom i feel much respect 4 you and well ,, u know where i am at
PEACE
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I haven't ever expierenced any Afghani's or Pakistanis that are Thai like but they do sound interesting, as long as they don't have the heavy chest, heart pounding stone as well. I prefer sativas, but a nice relaxing indica that doesn't make me stupid or hungover is always nice for night time or a rainy day. If I want to feel loaded (sorry Sam, this term describes it so well as you put it) or drugged, I would go buy beer or liquor or I would be a junkie, niether appeal to me though.
It's unfortunate that the market dictates that we have lots of fast, potent, boring and often flavourless strains. If people here just think it's just with cannabis, look around at your grocery store, same things are happening. Why do you they build vegetable greenhouses in Mexico? The market dictates what people produce rather than what has better value for you.
I think that globalization has hurt the human race more than anything else, without it, we'd have to do more things on our own (Countries, continents). But some people like boring, flavourless in their life and good for them, I will just try to convince them of otherwise
RCC loves sativa, Where are you fisherman?
See:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4923609#post4923609
funkervogt
donut engineer
Join Date: Feb 2004 <<<< !!!
Posts: 1,277
"Ditto the support for ACE and CannaBiogen. Would also like to throw Sam's efforts in here (his haze x skunk crosses) along with Tom Hill's haze as excellent spiritual successors to the old school landracey hazes.
Anyway, Colombia. My old lady is Colombian. We get down there quite a bit. When we're there, we often get hooked up. And I have to say, the sativa's there are different than anything I've ever tasted out of a growroom here. Soaring in a different way than, say, Jack Herer - absolutely NO, and I mean zero fogginess, total concentration, LSD-like effects almost. All of the best parts of weed without the sleepiness or decreased alertness. Unfortunately, none of the stuff we've received has been seeded. It usually comes pre-rolled but is fucking incredible."
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4923609#post4923609
funkervogt
donut engineer
Join Date: Feb 2004 <<<< !!!
Posts: 1,277
"Ditto the support for ACE and CannaBiogen. Would also like to throw Sam's efforts in here (his haze x skunk crosses) along with Tom Hill's haze as excellent spiritual successors to the old school landracey hazes.
Anyway, Colombia. My old lady is Colombian. We get down there quite a bit. When we're there, we often get hooked up. And I have to say, the sativa's there are different than anything I've ever tasted out of a growroom here. Soaring in a different way than, say, Jack Herer - absolutely NO, and I mean zero fogginess, total concentration, LSD-like effects almost. All of the best parts of weed without the sleepiness or decreased alertness. Unfortunately, none of the stuff we've received has been seeded. It usually comes pre-rolled but is fucking incredible."
Bump
Enjoy the read!
Enjoy the read!
