Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[Mr Celsius]

BurnOne (or others)

If you were using LC#1 mix (or something fairly similar) and had a drip system, how often would you water? I realize that the plants size and growth rates matter quiet a bit for how often you water. I will be using coco instead of peat, and from my experience with coco, its pretty impossible to over water. The only thing that really throws it off, seems to be the castings...

 

[B.C.]

Keeping it real...

Keeping it real...

I am relaxed Burn1. I wasn't trying to slam anyone, jus making a point to Toodles. If ya wanna help new growers, learn ta read the plants, cause it doesn't matter what soil ya use they have to be fed correctly. I said this many times but it always turns into a pissing contest over the soil. WHY?!?! When it doesn't have damn thing ta do with it..... This is the second time B1 yuv said there is wood ckunks in FF soil. I've seen an occasional stick, but never chunks??? While I'm at it, that is not the forest part of the soil. I told you this before too, composted forest humus is the "forest" part of FFOF. We all know humus will buffer our PH, don't we? also there's no lime in it either, there is ground oyster shells tho. Same thing as lime minus the thousand years it took ta make limestone. So there's plenty of cal and mag and PH buffer. The guy that had trouble with a mag deficiency only had one strain doing it, the rest of his plants are fine. Again, this can happen in any soil, learn ta read the plants, some strains are jus mag hogs........ About the price. The store you buy it from gets it for 7-8$ abag, but turns around and sell it to you for 20$ abag. It's the stores that are rippin folks off. I don't mind tho, I can easily grow thousands of dollars worth of bud from that small investment. Anyone can. For the new grower, it jus doesn't get -any- easier. I think it's great if someone wants ta mix there own. I know how well that works too, I've done it many times. But I also know FF works jus as well right outa the bag without all the hassle. Jus tryin ta keep things real for anyone new to growing that might read this in the future. Later, BC

 

[barletta]

Got my organic juices going...

For what it's worth, FFOF took a step out in the 'start-up' process for me. To start growing bud is such a big shift in thinking and action, that having a (mostly) RTU soil is a nice option. Yes it is expensive.

The only drawback that I found to straight FFOF is that is compacts VERY easily if worked wet. My first crop of 3 plants in 2l soil buckets never even got their roots to the bottom of the pots, cause I had compacted the soil too tight. Problem solved with some perlite/vermiculite/coarse coco.

Figuring that there are only 15-20 gallons of diluted ferts in each FF bottle sucks. I have had the same gallon of age-old grow (almost never use veg ferts, have over 1/2 the bottle, and 1/2 that went outside). I bought a gallon each of AO and EJ bloom in the spring, and I am bout 1/2 way done with the EJ, and 1/4 way done with the AO.

I can't hate on the FF soils. If I had the opportunity, I'd be adding a bag to my current soil (veg and bloom) mixes. Great for beginners, 1 bag ffof, 1 bag perlite, 1 bag vermiculite. By the time you outgrow that stuff, you can decide how you want to continue growing.

 

[barletta]

aka, No shit, lol.

In my situation, buying the 1 bag for my 'micro' closet was the best way for me to start. I am like a lot of YOU and kinda overly analytical. Until I had a harvest under my belt, it was worth the extra 10 bux or so per 1.5cuft. I had visions of lumens persq ft, and cfm, and finish times, and nute schedules, and clone rotations, and yield expectations... I think that a 'good' batch of ffof saved my plants some stresses that first few rounds.

If I had to buy 1 bagged soil, it would be ffof OR fflw. To be fair, I have only used these and the scotts 'organic'. The scotts smelled like human waste, and was almost as heavy...

Making your own medium up is one more (big) step in getting closer to the plants, which for the smoker/grower is the true goal. Once you are in touch with your plants, it's all good, you will 'know' what to do IMHO.

Yeah, I was out yesterday, and I'm not so worried bout mold as wind. I have a few heavyweights that are slated to come down ~3wks, and if the wind snapps them, talking bout 1/2 the yield. On the upside, if those plants come down, it makes more room in the patches for the 'Early October' plants to stretch (yes, they are still stretching..) and fill out. Either way, It really only will cost me an extra trip down there. I'll be going Sunday, after the wind, lol. I NEED the rain. I was there yesterday, and they look good, but the ground was very dry, and it has rained 1 time of more than .25" the last 30 days or so. This would be a PERFECT soaker.

I can't stop thinking bout those BEAUTIES outside. Organic MONSTERS minus the 1 time slug pellet application early July to save the crop (and rooting gel...). I keep oggling my indoor Shit saying, "How bout 2lbs of you ~Sept 25ish???" ;-0

 

[B.C.]

I'm almost right eh? LOL!

I'm almost right eh? LOL!

So because you know how ta feed and water yer plants that makes you right about FF soil bein bunk? That's not very logical and doesn't prove anything about the FF soil. I bet you could do with it too! lol Honestly tho, in all the negative things you have had to say about it there hasn't been a tangible link from the soil to a plant that has been affected by the soil. I think before ya call foul on the soil you need ta realize that 99% of the time these issues are from very new growers. And because they are new they are bound ta make mistakes. We all know that if you don't have all the other criteria to make a plant happy the soil isn't going to make much differents. It takes all the spokes in the wheel to make the wheel roll right..... Are goals are no different. I'm jus tryin ta help people get started the easiest way possible too. I also think it's important that folks get a couple of soild grows before they start trying new things, it gives them a base to start with and builds confidence. The simplest way I know of doin this is with FF soil. The sound of mixing yer own soil is kind of intimidating for someone that's never grown before. I -know- it shouldn't be, but think about it from their point of veiw. Most of the time they're jus lookin for the easiest way ta go about it..... I've started many folks I know locally this way, and everyone of them had a nice harvest their first time! I feel good about that. Lord knows I'm not sayin they didn't make a lot of mistakes tho! lol But they learned from it the way we all do and moved on. Take care... BC

 

[przcvctm]

I just caught up on the postings after my last post and my mind is blown. Consider that I made LC#2 using FFOF. Did I do the right thing mixing LC#2 or the wrong thing because I used FFOF in doing so?

 

[B.C.]

hmm...

hmm...

Any time you mix yer own organic soil you need ta let it sit and "cook" for a min of 2-3 weeks. Many organic amendments are not in the correct PH range. So ya need ta let the microherd start doin it's thing first and also give the lime a chance to start breaking down. It's -very- important for the PH to balance itself before ya put plants in it. If it's not the plants won't feed properly. I would suggest when mix yer soil that you mix it very well, so everything get's mixed up evenly. Leaving lil pockets unmixed can cause you problems later, so mix it well ( I have problems with my back and neck so this is one of the reasons I use bag soil ). Anyhoo, when ya get it mixed I would suggest wetting it up with a bioactive tea or nutrient ta get the ball rollin. Not jus an organic nute, but somethin that has living cultures in it, there's a big difference. This is an important step when ya mix yer own and shouldn't be overlooked, ya gotta let it cook. (Forest Gump) And that's all I have ta say about that.hehe Take care... BC

 

[Hammerhead]

FFOF OR NOT

FFOF OR NOT

This is 4 plants grown in FFOF all where feed the same until 3 of the 4 showed a mg deficiency and was corrected. all four plants are doing fine now. if you can learn what your plants need then you will do fine using FFOF. Here are the pics.remember the same soil the same tent the same lights the. The strain you grow will have a impact on how they do many strain require more or less of nutrients then others. This is my experience.
This is the BOG LSD. These plants where very vigorous and never had any issues in FFOF. If I can get this plant and the 4 clones to finish like I expect these will be very very good plants and I will try to make some seeds from the mother I will keep.









these plants showed MG deficiencies in the same soil and required added MG Suplements and theses where Purple Haze, I would grow these again but would be ready with the added MG for there needs.





Having said that I have gone back to making my own. I start with sunshine mix #1 add worm castings. bat guano,Per lite,Lime and blood meal.let it sit a few days mixing well and it's ready to go. I don't want to have plants look like that ever again. All that wasted energy trying to heal the leaves when it could have been spent making bud.

 

[przcvctm]

Are same sized perlite and pumice interchangeable in the LC mixes?

 

[b52]

Beautiful plant ya got ther hammerhead................great strain too i might add..

Was wondering WTF FFOF was..LOL.... so I Just took a few minutes to read some of the recent input on this thread.... N HOLY SMOKES...... what the hells this all about?

Theres so many different Hybrids out there with 1000 different nutritional needs at different times... theres no way ya can make a one size fits all fert/ balanced soil....... what Fox Farm/ AN/ etc. etc. do is they aim for the middle ..n the guys with the finicky strains just gotta be prepared with a pinch of epson salts or whatee it is their strain needs......... Cause your not gonig to see the day when a company stocks HAZE Ferts.... INDICA Ferts.... etc. etc....

it aint rocket science this stuff.. they are weeds n if left alone they'll be fine.....might not beee all they can bee but they'll be fine....

 

[retawgnob]

I asked that fellow if "he" thought because I wanted to see if he thought I was advising him to do something "dumb or unecessary".

Toodles

Word. I appreciate the way you went about that too. You make a big point to me, and allow me to think as i will need too in future grows. This only being my second time i am curious as to what others more experienced opinoins might be.

I recently had the chance to see my little ladies get ready for their wonderful flowers to bloom, I had a male too but i kicked his ass out the yard. I still am having trouble telling on the others they have substantially more leaves, not to mention the damn street lights are becoming an possible concern.

N-E-Way, Burn1, Toodles, you will be proud to know i went and got some Canadian sphagnum pro-moss, rabbitFarms EWC and i already had some perlite. So i will be mixing agian sortly. I took all that other mix that i royaly fucked up and have been using it for the rest of the garden.

But as Toodles said i want to be able to ask questions that might arise and find the proper course of action from individuals with a little more experience than my self.

Always appreciate the help. Hope all is well. Stay up and stay safe.

Peace.

 

[BurnOne]

^^^Don"t forget the powdered dolomite lime.
Burn1

 

[B.C.]

Weeeell Doggies!

Weeeell Doggies!

As for my advice, I would prefer that people understand WHY they should do things. I don't want folks to do things just because I say so. I like to provide a logical, rational reason for what folks do in their gardens. I'm old fashioned like that.

There's one more thing we have in common! Dang!?!? who'd uh thunk it.... lol Standing by these principles is the -only- reason I have ever said anything about FF soil. Some how that has turned into FF soil vs LC's ( or any other self mix ). That's jus ridiculous, and not my intent at all. I encourage eveyone to make their own soil, if yer situation permits it. Some folks can't tho or don't want to. FF soil is the next best thing then. I think that I've used logical, rational reasoning as to why anyone has had problems, and it wasn't the soil at all, it was how they were feeding. In many threads now. Maybe this is what makes folks think I'm against mixin yer own and all for FF soil? lol! I dunno. I think it's like so many other things on this forum board. Some folks kinda have an attitude of pick a side. I can't stress enough, there are no sides to this! all of these soils will work fine. Take care... BC

 

[retawgnob]

Yes, Yes... Never will i forget the powdered dolomite lime! I bought a big ass bucket of the stuff when i found it. Thanks again fellas.

Now can we quit the debate and get back to the point?

 

[retawgnob]

Quick Question

Quick Question

Its been a week since the two females i have started flowering. One is in a decent size pot and the other is in a substantially smaller pot.

Should i transplant in too the same size as the other one or just leave them be? I don't want to stress them out too much.

I just fertilized yesterday with LK/BS Molasses/half dose of Fish emulsions/half dose EJ Bloom. So....

Advice and constructive criticism are always welcome. Thanks in advance.

Peace.

 

[akuira]

ok i am going to go with the soiless mix #1 and recipe #1... i have a few questions...

1. i have not been sucessful locating chunky perlite, will the standard smaller sized perlite going to be good?

2. when mixing the ingredients from recipe #1, i'm assuming that this should be in an open container, correct?

3. when the mix is in the two week period, will the smell be bad for pets? i'll have it so they can not get to it but i just want to make certain that it will not harm them... i have cats

4. after the initial 2 weeks, is it ok to store the soiless mix & nutes for later use or am should i only make what i need and make more as i need it?

thanks to everyone for this informative thread, i have read to page 19 but i just needed to ask these questions before i get started... thanks

 

[toodles]

ok i am going to go with the soiless mix #1 and recipe #1... i have a few questions...

1. i have not been sucessful locating chunky perlite, will the standard smaller sized perlite going to be good?

IMO Yes. I don't use the chunky anyway.

2. when mixing the ingredients from recipe #1, i'm assuming that this should be in an open container, correct?

IMO..Yes. I use an 18 gallon Rubbermaid tote for mixing. After mixing a 5-6 gallon batch I dump into a 30 gallon tote for storage.

3. when the mix is in the two week period, will the smell be bad for pets? i'll have it so they can not get to it but i just want to make certain that it will not harm them... i have cats

No it won't smell bad at all. Who knows what it smells like for pets. I would keep where they can't get in it though.
4. after the initial 2 weeks, is it ok to store the soiless mix & nutes for later use or am should i only make what i need and make more as i need it?

The mixed soil will last longer than you'll probably need it. After mixing, I wet it with Liquid Karma making it moist, but NOT "wet". During the 2-3 weeks, I keep mine stirred up every day or so. Rake it around with a garden claw. Store it "loosely covered" Do NOT cover it airtight. The good microbes are aerobic. Make sure the mix stays moist, but not wet.

thanks to everyone for this informative thread, i have read to page 19 but i just needed to ask these questions before i get started... thanks

You're quite welcome.

Others may different views, but that's mine.

Toodles

There's mine waiting for my plants. Some of that has been in there months. The rest since mid August I think. Make surte you "dig out the corners" when mixing.

 

[akuira]

thank you toodles!

well, if i have to make sure to keep it moist and slightly opened then it may be better for me to mix up my soilless mix in a separate tote... and use another tote for mixing up smaller portions to use. i have a smaller grow, and space is somewhat an issue so that seems more logical.

not to mention it looks like my babies have got some type of mold/fungus... i thought it was a phosphorus/potassium def. but it seems to be getting worse after using FF Grow Big... off to the infirmary! (this is precisely why I want to go organic…)

just one last question to clarify... when using recipe #1, no nutrients or teas should be needed throughout the life of the plant? all i do is water?

thanks again!

 

[BurnOne]

retawgnob-
The soil in the blue container looks too wet to me. That's why the leaves are wilting a bit.
Burn1

 

[toodles]

thank you toodles!

just one last question to clarify... when using recipe #1, no nutrients or teas should be needed throughout the life of the plant? all i do is water?

thanks again!

You are most welcome.

Burn1 or someone else needs to help you with that question. It depends in part on if you are going to go organic. If you look on the first pages of this thread, you'll see information on watering, wormcasting teas, etc. What I do in my grow is somewhat controversial, so I'd rather not say anything on that specific issue.

Yes, on the two totes. I have a small grow too. I usually just grow 3-4 plants at a time in my Hydrohut mini. So I make soil in small batches. I mix it in a 18 gallon tote because doing 5-6 gallons at a time is easy in that size without making a mess. Remember, you'll be mixing all the various things vigorously, both dry, and then again after moistening. THEN dump in the 30 gallon for storage till needed. Make sense? Not everyone does it that way, but that's me.

Toodles