Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[dank.frank]

CT - His recipe is based pretty much on a sticky I have in my vendors forum with a few modifications...

The EASIEST way is always to use exactly, tried and true formulations, that is a given. He could follow my post verbatim and get to the finish line successfully - but sometimes people want to try things their own way and work from there. Rather than tell him, NO, do it my way exactly - I'm willing to make some conjectures based on what I know to work - and try and steer him in the right direction while still letting him have the reigns and do things as he sees best or is comfortable with. Some people prefer the self-discovery route over the cut and paste route and I'm fine with that.

Sometimes, it's just about answering questions - not about providing alternatives.

And about the mycos - are you saying they will DIE when mixed into a healthy soil without coming into direct contact with roots? They can live in a plastic pouch without root contact or any soil - but when they get mixed into a well made soil - they cease to exist?



dank.Frank

 

[Vakten1995]

Hey guys! I have checked Blazeoneup's soil mix. He says it take grow all the way from seed to harvest with only water and still give great result!

Blazeoneup's Mix:

• 1 bag of Miracle-Gro organic choice garden soil
• 1 bag of pro mix for containers
• 1 cup blood meal
• 1 cup bone meal
• 1/2 cup dolimite lime
• 10-20% added chunky perlite

If I replace the Miracle-Gro organic choice garden soil and pro mix for containers for compost soil will it stil work? Only water all the way? I mean it will look like this:

• 2 bags of compost soil
• 1 cup blood meal
• 1 cup bone meal
• 1/2 cup dolimite lime
• 10-20% added chunky perlite

 

[dank.frank]

That mix is some what old - and I'm not even sure that Blaze1up still uses it exactly as is.

Phillthy based his first organic mix on the Blaze1up mix - and then adjusted it and modified it over time to his liking.

TonyGreen also has a signature in his posts that show a modified version of the Blaze1up mix as well.

What are you calling "compost soil" - that is such a generic term - who knows if it will work or not. Depends on the quality of the compost.

Why do you want to remove the peat based component of the original recipe?



dank.Frank

 

[Mate Dave]

Its a shame Veg N Out removed his account as he was on top of the game. This here is what he recommends.

Go to the Earthworm Soil Factory and have em drop off the Nor Cal growers blend. It's 200 a yard(1 yard is 200 gallons), you wont need any fertilizer the whole year just hit them with biology... I had their different products checked out by an independent laboratory and the results came in very close to perfect on the NC Growers Blend...

 

[Vakten1995]

That mix is some what old - and I'm not even sure that Blaze1up still uses it exactly as is.

Phillthy based his first organic mix on the Blaze1up mix - and then adjusted it and modified it over time to his liking.

TonyGreen also has a signature in his posts that show a modified version of the Blaze1up mix as well.

What are you calling "compost soil" - that is such a generic term - who knows if it will work or not. Depends on the quality of the compost.

Why do you want to remove the peat based component of the original recipe?



dank.Frank

Hey man, I want to remove them because I cant really buy them in Sweden What I mean with compost soil is here in my town all our compost get composting by the municipality and then they sell. Its all natural food, grass, etc. All blended and composted

 

[dank.frank]

@Mate Dave - Veg n Out - is still around...different handle though - and that advice is only applicable to a very limited group of people in a very limited area. So...

@Vakten - you work with what you've got. Then perhaps, his mix isn't the best for you. Is that the only medium you have available at your disposal?



dank.Frank

 

[Microbeman]

CT - His recipe is based pretty much on a sticky I have in my vendors forum with a few modifications...

The EASIEST way is always to use exactly, tried and true formulations, that is a given. He could follow my post verbatim and get to the finish line successfully - but sometimes people want to try things their own way and work from there. Rather than tell him, NO, do it my way exactly - I'm willing to make some conjectures based on what I know to work - and try and steer him in the right direction while still letting him have the reigns and do things as he sees best or is comfortable with. Some people prefer the self-discovery route over the cut and paste route and I'm fine with that.

Sometimes, it's just about answering questions - not about providing alternatives.

And about the mycos - are you saying they will DIE when mixed into a healthy soil without coming into direct contact with roots? They can live in a plastic pouch without root contact or any soil - but when they get mixed into a well made soil - they cease to exist?



dank.Frank

Ultimately the way I see it - if the mycos are fully dispersed through out the medium, then when the roots hit, they will begin colonization. I've noticed MAJOR differences in the tilth and quality of soil that I have simply mixed in the microbes and let sit vs a soil that they were not applied to...so I tend to go against the grain and still mix things directly into the soil...just based on my own personal experiences

It may be worthwhile to delineate between microbes and endomycorrhizal fungi (AM) spores. There are many microbial inoculations (some in spore form) which are of benefit when mixing into a planting medium. Some of them are fungal. If one is discussing the use of endomycorrhizal spores and their potential colonization of roots then one can state quite certainly that applying them directly to the root or seed at planting time is far (far, far) superior to mixing them throughout the medium. Many commercial farmers who continue to keep Premier Tech in the black are testiment to this.

There are studies which indicate that the greater number of endomycorrhizal (AM) spores which come in contact with the roots, the greater the chance and quality/quantity of infection (colonization). This is why I prefer to make up my own mix of AM spores to a concentration of approximtely 250 to 300 spores per gram. If I were to mix these into the medium the chances and quality/quantity of infection are drastically reduced from applying them directly to the roots & cuttings or seeds.


These chances are stepped down again if using a brand name with only 100 or so spores per gram.

If one does mix the spores into the soil, I am unsure of their fate if they remain unsprouted yet hydrated. I have watched different bacterial spores being devoured by various predators. It would make for interesting research. One could assume that they are quite longlived in dormant state if left unmolested and undegraded, as they appear to sporulate and infect new plants in no-till medium.

The no-till method became my choice after evolving from salts and throw away to remix and organic re-amendments to no-till and natural growing.....mostly due to laziness but falling back on no reduction in yield, positive patient feedback and purity bragging rights.

As to their (AM) efficacy in cannabis growth, I cannot give conclusive evidence but certaily can regarding many of my other plants. IMO which is conjecture, trichoderma is likely more beneficial to cannabis growth.

 

[dank.frank]

Great post as always, MM.

I know we've been over this a bit in the past and you have stated the benefit I've seen from mixing things directly into the soil, in specific with using the T and J product, was more than likely from the trichoderma spores...

Your last post is echoing that same sentiment...

I appreciate you taking the time to address such matters and share your knowledge with the community. Nothing but for you, buddy!!!

So then, would you say, perhaps, that Snype is better off mixing the T and J mix into the soil and then applying directly to the roots the BioAg Vam product???



dank.Frank

 

[vitamingreeninc]

I ordered EWC from agrowin and they sent me a free sample of their mineral dust and a sample of Rose and Flower, Citrus and Avocado, Vegetable-Food 4-4-6.

I am following recipe 1, should I add a cup of this on top of that recipe?

I will be using a cup of their minerals with 2 cups glacial rock dust and a half cup azomite, sounds right?

 

[Microbeman]

So then, would you say, perhaps, that Snype is better off mixing the T and J mix into the soil and then applying directly to the roots the BioAg Vam product???

I confess to not reading through the whole situation but on face value, that is likely the best option.

 

[MrTea]

I always sprinkle the BioAg Vam Endo on a well rooted clone when tp'ing from a 4" to a half gallon pot. I immediately follow that up with a watering.

 

[Vakten1995]

@Vakten - you work with what you've got. Then perhaps, his mix isn't the best for you. Is that the only medium you have available at your disposal?
dank.Frank

This is avabile to: http://www.emperi.se/emperifelles-filer/U-jord.pdf

Its in swedish, but I think you will understand.
Man thanks for helping me, you are a good human!

 

[vitamingreeninc]

good vibes!

good vibes!

Just made a cubic foot of LC#1 with
recipe #1!
It felt so....right? Pleasant? To mix it up with my hands.
I am in a small apartment and had to do a bit at a time, and my measure cup was 1/2 quart, I know FML right?
Scoops are to the top or almost of the measuring cup- 1/2 quart for reference

Coco Coir- 1 part-6 scoops-3 quarts
Spaghum Peat Moss- 4 part-24 scoops-4 quarts
=5 parts "soil"
Perlite- 2 part-12 Scoops-6 quarts
Agrowinn EWC- 2 part-12 Scoops-6 quarts
1 1/4th cup dolomite lime, powdered- I increased it a tad bit because of RO water, is that okay or should I have added more?
I am waiting on a bag of perlite so that I can have another 1 part-6 scoops-3 quarts=3 total parts of aeratiom

This, according to the recipe makes 1 cubic foot of soil.

To this I added, as per the recipe:

1/2 cup Blood Meal-N
1 cup Bone Meal-P
1/2 cup Kelp-K
+ 1/2 cup Jersey Greensand as I intend on amending this soil 1:3 with new soil-then perhaps be able to run those water only?

For Minerals I added:
1/2 cup volcanic rock-Sampler from Agrowinn

I am waiting on both glacial dust and Azomite which I will be using:
2 cup glacial dust
1/2 cup azomite-per DankFrank,

I then innoculated with:
1/2 tsp Liquid Karma+1/2tsp Horticulture Mollasses+3/4 gallon water.
As soon as the rock dusts.get added in I will do another innoculatin.

Agrowinn sent me a sample of a 4-4-6...should I add it in at 1/2 cup?

How does this mix look/sound? I feel as if I have jumped pretty fully into organics here, coming from Hempy. I wish I had used Fish Bone, but its whatever, I didn't read as much before I first ordered. If there was any one thing, what would you add?

Thanks for reading, its been a pleasure learning so far.
My girls thank you

 

[snufkin]

The soil mix would be 1/3 old used soil, 1/3 compost and 1/3 sphagnum and the added goodies:

2tbsp bone meal / gallon
5 tbsp kelp / gallon
2tbsp chicken manure / gallon
(3 tbsp birch ashes / gallon)
1-2 tbsp diatomaceous earth / gallon
1 tbsp neem meal / gallon
1-2 tbsp ground egg shells or lime / gallon
10 tbsp coffee grounds / gallon

so this is the mix I am going with and gonna use 15/20 gallon containers to keep the plant count down. Just one more question, can I transplant a month old plant straight to this mix without cooking it? I know its not the ideal way is it doable?

 

[DAVES NOT HERE]

everyone should read this thread...so much great info...thanks everyone that contributed

 

[exstr]

If using LC mix #2 and using a 3qt "part", 1 cup lime....how much Diatomaceous Earth would you add for silica? would this even be recommended in this mix?

 

[mx628]

Mixed up a bunch of LC #1 soil using peat moss and planted everything. Measured everything perfectly. Idk, Im not super happy with the flow of the soil. When I water it just sits on top for a little while and the pot is super heavy. Plus there are almost dry spots where the water didn't go through that area. That can't be a good thing, the roots have to work extra hard to move through the soil, and less oxygen perhaps. I was using a 1:1 ratio of FFOF and Golden turpor before, and had great flow. Plants sucking up almost gallon a day sometimes. I know this is a good mix and the dolomite is very very important as well. Going to to switch to LC #2 using FFOF and the turpor, and mix in the dolomite and earth worm castings. Anybody else experience this issue? The peat moss is the problem, I know it is.

 

[Mikell]

If you used raw peat moss, you have to use a wetting agent of some kind. Apologies if that is redundant. Very warm water works in a pinch prior to transplanting.

Throw down a bed of mulch to avoid the dry crust. I add a bit of coir here as well.

 

[Ph-patrol]

I used 20% chunky per-lite
20% worm castings
10% coco brick
25%FFOF
25% Canadian peat.

bone meal
blood meal
agricultural lime
green sand
Alfalfa meal
kelp

No problems with soil. I flood top of my containers with room temperature water.

Im not sure if this helps?

 

[TheyCallMeJJay]

Burn 1, I noticed the guano tea recipe has been changed to not have Liquid Karma. Or did I see that elsewhere.

Thanks