Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[vonforne]

NickMode-
Cottonseed meal can be very acidic. Use Alfalfa meal instead of dried blood in recipe #1. Use your guano as a tea during flowering.
Burn1

I think alfalfa should be used instead of any thing else. Cottonseed meal has tons of chems used in its growth cycle. Or at least most do. The cottonseed meal in mushroom compost has went through a composting cycle and has had most of the chemicals removed by nature.

I actually like the natural alfalfa over the meal purchased in the grow or garden shop. It can be bought at most feed stores through out the US and Canada. Make sure it is sodium free. It generally comes in pellets and can be ground up with an el cheapo blender.

And for the record I HATE CHICKEN MANURE! Composted or not. And it is hot.
I had the Black Hen brand rated like B1 says and it curled my plants up in a week...LOL but through the years I have killed lots of plants experimenting. So, what the hell do I know. LOL I am stoned most of the time anyway. But hey.....ain´t we all?


V

 

[Dignan]

All I've been able to find at the feed store-- and I do make it work just fine-- are 40 lb bags of alfalfa cubes... which are alfalfa pressed into Twinkie-sized cubes.

Sucks to make meal out of for spreading, but what I do is soak it in a trash can to make alfalfa tea... then strain the solids out and spread them on the garden along with the tea OR put the leftover alfalfa solids into the compost heap or worm bin.

Dignan

p.s. V- thank you for experimenting and sharing your losses and victories with us here!

 

[BurnOne]

You guys can make teas out of alfalfa pellets. Works great. But I did almost burn some plants with it once. If you can dial it in, it's probably the best nitrogen source bar none.
Burn1

 

[Dignan]

You guys can make teas out of alfalfa pellets. Works great. But I did almost burn some plants with it once. If you can dial it in, it's probably the best nitrogen source bar none.
Burn1

B1, what dilution ration do you use? Of course it's going to depend on the potency of the initial tea. Right now I have an 18-gallon Rubbermaid that was about 1/5 full of alfalfa, then I filled the tub about 1/2 way with rainwater.

Normally I'll dilute about 10:1. Wondering if I should bump that up a bit. Any thoughts, or even intuitive hunches?

Peace-

Dig

 

[vonforne]

All I've been able to find at the feed store-- and I do make it work just fine-- are 40 lb bags of alfalfa cubes... which are alfalfa pressed into Twinkie-sized cubes.

Sucks to make meal out of for spreading, but what I do is soak it in a trash can to make alfalfa tea... then strain the solids out and spread them on the garden along with the tea OR put the leftover alfalfa solids into the compost heap or worm bin.

Dignan

p.s. V- thank you for experimenting and sharing your losses and victories with us here!

Ya, cubes-pellets it is all the same. I found the pellets were easier to grind up. Where I live now with my wife again I will have to find a different blender.....she walks into the kitchen and sees me grinding lime and alfalfa up with her Siemens blender....well I will be sleeping with the dogs real fast. LOL

You have found the best way to make a tea by soaking. I am a member of the Garden web and have discussed it with them there in the past and my Grandfather knew of the benefits of alfalfa also. He mostly used the left overs from the barn floor though.

Alfalfa, wheat grass and barley grass is another good source of N and micro nutrients also.

At the feed store also you can get rolled oats (fungal source) and soybean meal (soil additive) also. I have even purchased fish meal there when I lived in Fla. Pet stores carry different sources of alfalfa also as feed for small furry animals. You do have to watch out for the sodium content there though.

And I will continue to attempt to kill plants in the future Dig. I live in a new country where all the products are new to me so the show will begin in a few weeks. LOL Pull up a seat, the show will begin soon. And I will take you up on the lime offer. We need to talk via PM about that.

V

 

[Dignan]

And I will continue to attempt to kill plants in the future Dig. I live in a new country where all the products are new to me so the show will begin in a few weeks. LOL Pull up a seat, the show will begin soon. And I will take you up on the lime offer. We need to talk via PM about that.

V

A new Von grow.

More than happy to help with the lime. When the time is right for you, hit me up.

 

[lovelightpower]

i have revised what i am doing to the LC's soiless mix #1. i am following this to the letter as much as possible, some thing are harder to get in the uk though.

5 parts Coir
3 parts perlite
2 parts wormcastings
screened limestone (i couldn't get Powdered dolomite lime) @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
i also have some epsom salts which i could use in conjunction with or instead of.

the water in my area is very alkaline, i dont know if this will make any difference?

RECIPE #1
Dry Ferts:
1 tablespoon blood meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
2 tablespoons bone meal per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
1-tablespoon kelp meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix or Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract as directed
i couldn't get any Jersey Greensand either.
Mix all the dry ferts into the soiless mix well and wet it (i have humic acid but cannot get liquid karma in uk). Stir and mix it a few times a week for a week or two And don't let the mix dry out, keep it moist and add water as needed.

i was wondering if this is a universal mix, can i plant my rooted cuttings into this mix? can i use it in veg stage and flowering, or is this just a flowering recipe?

i live in a small space and have no garden or outside space, it is quite awkward having the soil sitting around for 2 weeks. could i just use this mix straight away or not? it would be handy if i could. will this mix (obviously depending on strain) get me through the whole flowering period with no amendments?

i was just thinking of subsidising the grow with just molasses&casting tea to keep the bacteria and fungi at an optimum level.

please tell me if any of this is a stupid idea.
hopefully i am on the right tracks.
thanks!

 

[Guest]

I think you'll be fine with what you are doing. One exception would be I wouldn't put any Epsom Salts in the mix. You don't need it.

If your water is alkaline( I assume that means pH of 8.0+...or over 7.0 anyway)
Then you need to make certain you check the pH of any water and/or water nute mix before applying it....unless you KNOW for a fact the pH is less than 7.0...preferably, IMO 6-6.5.

I use the same mix for veg and flower. Keeps things simpler. I expect some will question that theory, but I've had no problems. These soil mixes are plenty rich.

As for storing soils. I live in an apartment. I keep my soil in a big tote in my living room...LOOOSELY covered. DO NOT cover soil mixes tightly. I can't smell a thing and a good healthy soil doesn't "stink" at all.

You really should let that mix sit a couple weeks if at all possible. Mine has been incubating behind my lounge chair since April 30. I wet it with water mixed with molassess, humic acid, Maxicrop....not all three at once. It should be really good by the ned of May. I'll add some Mycorrhizal fungus when I put my plants in it.

jj48

I have about 20 gallons in here for my new grow.


I just made up my new soil mix for my next grow. It'll be "incubating" for a month maybe till my seeds germ and the plants are big/old enough for it.

It's similar to, or modeled after Lavender Cowboy's LC#1 mix. I go a little easier on dry nutes mixed into the soil initially. We'll see if it ends up being a mistake or not. My feeling is you can always add to a soilmix, but once it is in there, you have to basically live with it cause it ain't coming out.

(45%) 9 gallons of Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss
(20%) 4 gallons of Black Gold Earthworm Castings
(35%) 7 gallons of perlite

This makes about 20 gallons, or roughly 2.5 cubic feet.

I added the following dry amendments:

Nitrogen
1/2 cup of Blood Meal 12-0-0
1/2 cup Alfalfa Meal 2.0-.5-2.0
1/2 cup Cottenseed Meal 6-2-1

Phosphorus
1 cup Bat Guano 0-5-0
1 cup Bone Meal 3-15-0

Potassium
2 cup Kelp Meal (1-0.1-2)
2 cup Jersey Green Sand

pH Buffering
3 cups of Dolomite Lime

I mixed all the above very thoroughly "dry". I then wet the mix with the following and mixed thoroughy once more:

4 gallons of tap water, bubbled 24+ hours with:

Maxicrop Liquified Seaweed (0.1-0-1.0) at 3Tbls/gallon
Liquid Karma (.1-.1-.5) at 2Tbls/gallon
Molasses at 1Tbls/gallon
15% Humic Acid @1Tbls/gallon in 5th gallon of water for wetting so far.

Wetting the mix with that mixture supplements the Potassium some and gets things started with the bacteria and other microherd organisms. I'll let this incubate for about 2 weeks, maybe more. I will keep it "moist", not wet. I'll check pH after a while to see what it looks like. I'm confident it will be OK though.

 

[lovelightpower]

if ph adjusting is needed for my waterings i have some organic lemon juice and organic cider vinegar. the water is VERY alkaline, i find when i ph adjust my water, the water ends up very vinegary/lemony i didn't know if this is too good for the plants or microherd? will the lime help with this? i thought the lime took the ph up?
does it just neutralise it in general?

 

[Guest]

Others with more experience can advise you better than I can on the water issue.

Personally I don't like using vinegar or citrus juices. Sooo....

That said, IMO, You may be better off getting a small RO unit and then using something like CalMag if you have problems with those two elements. Poor water quality,including really alkaline water, has done in more than one grow. RO units are not that expensive in the great scheme of things.

"Lime" juice is acidic, containing citric acid. It will lower pH.

"Lime" as in dolomite lime refers to Calcium and Magnesium Carbonate. And it will raise pH.

jj48

 

[lovelightpower]

nice one for your advice
thank you!

 

[ixnay007]

If General Hydroponics is to be believed Acetic acid (the stuff that makes vinegar acid) is toxic to plants, you might want to use the lemon juice instead.

BTW, I'm in europe too, and I'm looking into it, but some of us here find that water that exits the tap at 8+ on the PH scale after 24 hours in an open container drops to low 7s, which with enough humus in your mix, is more than acceptable.

 

[BurnOne]

i have revised what i am doing to the LC's soiless mix #1. i am following this to the letter as much as possible, some thing are harder to get in the uk though.

5 parts Coir
3 parts perlite
2 parts wormcastings
screened limestone (i couldn't get Powdered dolomite lime) @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
i also have some epsom salts which i could use in conjunction with or instead of.

the water in my area is very alkaline, i dont know if this will make any difference?

RECIPE #1
Dry Ferts:
1 tablespoon blood meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
2 tablespoons bone meal per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
1-tablespoon kelp meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix or Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract as directed
i couldn't get any Jersey Greensand either.
Mix all the dry ferts into the soiless mix well and wet it (i have humic acid but cannot get liquid karma in uk). Stir and mix it a few times a week for a week or two And don't let the mix dry out, keep it moist and add water as needed.

i was wondering if this is a universal mix, can i plant my rooted cuttings into this mix? can i use it in veg stage and flowering, or is this just a flowering recipe?

i live in a small space and have no garden or outside space, it is quite awkward having the soil sitting around for 2 weeks. could i just use this mix straight away or not? it would be handy if i could. will this mix (obviously depending on strain) get me through the whole flowering period with no amendments?

i was just thinking of subsidising the grow with just molasses&casting tea to keep the bacteria and fungi at an optimum level.

please tell me if any of this is a stupid idea.
hopefully i am on the right tracks.
thanks!

lovelightpower-
First, is the lime dolomite? Make sure it's not hydrated. If it's dolomite, you should be able to sift it and use it just fine. Epsom won't be needed. LC's mixes can be used for any stage of growing. You can germ seeds in it, root clones in it, veg, flower and grow mothers in it. But, It contains almost no food for the plant. It's a base. Or, a growing medium.
You'll have to add food. Such as the Recipe #1.

Now, when you add Recipe #1 to LC's Mix #1 it becomes a complete growing soil. A 3 to 5 gallon pot of it will be enough to grow all the way to harvest without (in most cases) adding anything else but water.

A word of caution here. You can't germ seeds or plant young seedlings in the LC's Mix with blood/bone/kelp added to it until they're at least 2 to 4 weeks old. The nitrogen in the blood will burn them. Rooted clones will be just fine though.

Here are two ways that I have used this method.

From Seeds:
Mix up a large batch of LC's Mix. Set enough aside to germ seeds in a 1 quart nursery pot.
Mix the rest with Recipe #1 (blood/bone/kelp) and moisten it at the same time you germ the seeds.
By the time the seeds get old enough and start needing food, the mix will be ready. I pour it into a 3 to 5 gallon pot and transplant the seedlings into it.
All you need to do until harvest is add water as needed.

From Rooted Clones:
Mix LC's Mix and Recipe #1 together as directed. Take cuttings from mother plant.
By the time the cuttings root well, the mix should be ready for transplant. Pour the mix into a 3 to 5 gallon pot and just water as needed until harvest.

Easy.
Burn1

 

[TheOneWill]

Can you top dress your soil with?
RECIPE #1
Or if that don't work. Would it be okay to top dress the soil but then put 2-3 inches of soil on top of that.

 

[BurnOne]

Can you top dress your soil with?
RECIPE #1
Or if that don't work. Would it be okay to top dress the soil but then put 2-3 inches of soil on top of that.

No.
You can make a tea out of blood and kelp if you want. But you must use it when the plants need feeding, regularly and variably.
Bone meal MUST be mixed thoroughly with a moist soil mix and given a couple of weeks to start breaking down.
Use the recipes only as directed if you don't have a good understanding of how these ingredients work.
Burn1

 

[fuhshietfu]

I would like to thank Burnone for starting this thread as this is the most informative thread on organics I've been able to find.

I wanted to get some suggestions for my soil mix that I'm going to use for this run. (1st organic)


I followed LC's mix#2 and I am using recipe #1

For recipe #1 I wasn't able to locate just blood meal and bone meal so I put in Foxfarm POM tomatoes and vegetables at the recommended dosage of 2tbs per/gal soil. I pretty much followed the rest of it with Maxicrop as well as dolomite lime and wet it water thats was sitting out past 24hrs.

I also ordered Foxfarm POM starter food and fruits and flowers since those seems to be the 2 best/effective ones.

I plan on adding the fruits and flowers into my already made mix at the recommended dosage of 1Tbs per gal.

I will use the starter food for next run combined with fruits and flowers.

Do you guys think this will be enough to last me the whole grow or at least most of it? I also have some high P bat guano and some all purpose seabird guano for making teas. I was thinking if the bat guano is even worth adding in the soil mix or should what I'm going to add enough?

I also have a question regarding Teas and Watering in organics.
For a compost tea, do I need to give the plant enough so it flows out the bottom? I am in 3gal pots. Would say half a gallon of fresh brewed tea be enough? or perhaps 1 gal for a 3gal pot?

any feed back will be appreciated

peace

 

[BurnOne]

fuhshietfu-
Welcome to IC. I'm happy (and sometimes grumpy) to help a grower out.
The recipes I posted have been used many times by many growers with great success. If you want to try something different, you become a researcher. And that's fine.
If you see that the plants need the guano, then by all means use it.
As far as watering goes, it's something you have to learn. If your grow medium is allowed to dry out, water will run through it and out the bottom without ever wetting the soil.
I make a funnel shape at the top that slopes down toward the base of the plant. I start with a cup or two of water (or nute solution) and give it a few minutes to soak in. Then I give a little more slowly. You'll get the hang of it quickly.
And another thing, dolomite lime must be kept moist to work. Never let your soil mix dry out too much.
Burn1

 

[GrizzleB]

You can use the fish (5-1-1- I assume) for veg.
I'd use the recipe for guano tea for flowering. Or Neptune's Harvest 2-4-1 fish.
Don't worry about the greensand.
Burn1

Thank you BurnOne, my plants are looking great and only gave them a light dose of fish emulsion mix a couple weeks ago. I believe il do one more feeding of that before I switch to flower. Today I spotted some Neptunes Harvest products, I was extremely suprised as theres barely any good organic stuff around here. Should I pick up the blue bottle, I believe it was 2-3-1 reading maybe?? for flowering? Thanks again for the info

 

[BurnOne]

GrizzleB-
If you can only get one bottle, get the 2-3-1 fish/seaweed in the blue bottle. If you can buy two, get the yellow bottle of 2-4-1 fish AND the blue bottle of 2-3-1 fish/seaweed.
Tell you why...
You don't need kelp in late flowering. Use the 2-3-1 in early to mid flowering then switch to the 2-4-1 the last four weeks of flowering. But if you can only get one, get the 2-3-1 fish/seaweed and use it for the entire flowering period.
Here's something else...
Continue to use veg nutes (nitrogen) during the first two to three weeks of flowering. The plants are going through a transition period (stretching) and need the nitrogen during that time. Give them a full dose when you go to 12/12 lighting. Then, maybe another shot at the next watering. Sometime after that, usually the third week of flowering, start using the 2-3-1 fish/seaweed. I use it @ 1 tbs./gal. of water every watering until harvest.
The best way to use it is to bubble some worm casting or compost tea along with molasses and Liquid Karma. Then just before you water, pour in the Neptune's Harvest and use it right away. Use 1 cup worm castings or compost in five gallons of water along with molasses and/or Liquid Karma @ 1 tbs./gal. of water. Great stuff.
And oh yeah, if you can get three bottles, get the green bottle of 0-0-1 seaweed and use it along with your 5-1-1 fish emulsion. Works great for germinating seeds and rooting clones as well.
Burn1

 

[Guest]

These are the first six 2nd generation SSHxSSH plants I have going. They are in the soil I made up that is very much like LC1 mix. The exact contents are on my first post on the thread in my signature.

They run in age from about 20-25 days. They have had nothing but water until the other day and they got a dilute EWC+molassess tea. They are looking pretty good at this point IMO.

You folks really should try LC's mixes.

I pruned off the lower nodes this AM and left the top three nodes....for now.

Pedro


Click on the individual pic to enlarge it.



SSHxSSH


After pruning this AM