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Organic Gold III - Soil Heresy by 3LB
- Thread starter 3BM
- Start date
V
vonforne
Yep, I like all of 3LB stuff. Re-read it all the time. Wish I could find more. I'am using their soil recycling method now.
3BM
Member
Hey Guys,
Great discussion on all of this. Fresh, if you add a "feeding" soil mix such as FFOF then drop the other nutes to accomodate. Cut the numbers back by about 1 full dixie cup/50gal on each nute, but remember that on initial mixes some of the amendments will not be very available. Even after 4 weeks of sitting they will still only lightly affect the nutrient value of the soil. It can take more than a year for greensand, rock phosphate, kelp meal, fossilized quano, etc to completely break down. When starting with a virgin soil batch I'll increase the compost/castings content and supplement with greater soluble nutrients during the plant's life. One might also start with a feeding soil mix to ensure that the plants were well fed while the insoluble nutrients came on line through microbial activity.
Von you can find the crushed oyster shell in feed stores sold as "grit" or "calci-grit". Be careful not to get "grani-grit" instead which is ground granite rather than ground shell. Both are sold as additives to chicken feed for their gullet. They are also common garden additives.
3BM
Great discussion on all of this. Fresh, if you add a "feeding" soil mix such as FFOF then drop the other nutes to accomodate. Cut the numbers back by about 1 full dixie cup/50gal on each nute, but remember that on initial mixes some of the amendments will not be very available. Even after 4 weeks of sitting they will still only lightly affect the nutrient value of the soil. It can take more than a year for greensand, rock phosphate, kelp meal, fossilized quano, etc to completely break down. When starting with a virgin soil batch I'll increase the compost/castings content and supplement with greater soluble nutrients during the plant's life. One might also start with a feeding soil mix to ensure that the plants were well fed while the insoluble nutrients came on line through microbial activity.
Von you can find the crushed oyster shell in feed stores sold as "grit" or "calci-grit". Be careful not to get "grani-grit" instead which is ground granite rather than ground shell. Both are sold as additives to chicken feed for their gullet. They are also common garden additives.
3BM
G
Guest
can somebody please give me the NPK values of the Kelp Meal And alfalfa Meal used in this mix?
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vonforne
Thanks 3BM you are a "wealth" of information about admendments. And how about granite dust? Where is that at?
3BM
Member
Hey Guys,
Fresh: find the 3LB article entitled "The Guano Guide" posted earlier in this thread for a good breakdown of these amendments (and just about any other organic fertilizer you can think of). Alfalfa meal typically has an N-P-K of 2.5-1-1, and Kelp meal typically is around 1-0-2. Both contain a wealth of secondary and trace nutrients, as well as hormones, vitamins, enzymes, and stimulants.
Von: Getting granite dust (rock dust, stone meal, etc) can be as simple as getting to know your neighbors. Rock dust is a byproduct of mining and stone cutting operations. Often it is produced as waste at a job site and companies actually pay to have it removed. Find a source like this and you can get nearly infinite amounts for free. Alternatively, there are many agricultural retailers that are happy to collect it for you and then sell it at a premium. Check out this website, they are located in San Diego:
www.fertilizeronline.com
Be careful with that stuff though. It has a MUCH higher percentage of secondary minerals (6%Fe, 4%Ca, and 1.5%Mg) than primary nutes (.003%P, and .007%K) on average. It is best to treat it as a primary source of Fe and Ca, and as a minor source of P and K available over the long term. Adding high quantities of stone meal (enough to realy boost K) may lead to Fe or Ca toxicity, especially with hard water. If you have hard water avoid this amendment all together. Greensand has the same range of microN and silicates of stone meal but a significantly higher ratio of K:MicroN. Without hard water this is a nice alternative to Gypsum.
3BM
Fresh: find the 3LB article entitled "The Guano Guide" posted earlier in this thread for a good breakdown of these amendments (and just about any other organic fertilizer you can think of). Alfalfa meal typically has an N-P-K of 2.5-1-1, and Kelp meal typically is around 1-0-2. Both contain a wealth of secondary and trace nutrients, as well as hormones, vitamins, enzymes, and stimulants.
Von: Getting granite dust (rock dust, stone meal, etc) can be as simple as getting to know your neighbors. Rock dust is a byproduct of mining and stone cutting operations. Often it is produced as waste at a job site and companies actually pay to have it removed. Find a source like this and you can get nearly infinite amounts for free. Alternatively, there are many agricultural retailers that are happy to collect it for you and then sell it at a premium. Check out this website, they are located in San Diego:
www.fertilizeronline.com
Be careful with that stuff though. It has a MUCH higher percentage of secondary minerals (6%Fe, 4%Ca, and 1.5%Mg) than primary nutes (.003%P, and .007%K) on average. It is best to treat it as a primary source of Fe and Ca, and as a minor source of P and K available over the long term. Adding high quantities of stone meal (enough to realy boost K) may lead to Fe or Ca toxicity, especially with hard water. If you have hard water avoid this amendment all together. Greensand has the same range of microN and silicates of stone meal but a significantly higher ratio of K:MicroN. Without hard water this is a nice alternative to Gypsum.
3BM
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vonforne
I called a granite company with an employment add in the paper and she said I can come and get all I want. You say not to use very much.....at what rate to a 50 gallon batch of soil? I was thinking the finer it is the less. 1 cup of semi fine dust per 50 gallons of soil. The decomposition rate will be very slow so maybe a little more. I know it is consentrated but at that rate it will be just about right. Imput?
3BM
Member
Hey Von,
With slow release mineral elements like rock dust, start with a stronger dose and add lesser amounts with each remix. Stop adding it all together after the 3rd remix, and then work it in every other mix or so as needed. Initially, add 2-4c/50gal, then on remixes add half that amount.
3BM
With slow release mineral elements like rock dust, start with a stronger dose and add lesser amounts with each remix. Stop adding it all together after the 3rd remix, and then work it in every other mix or so as needed. Initially, add 2-4c/50gal, then on remixes add half that amount.
3BM
V
vonforne
Hey 3BM thanks for the reply on this one. Its about finished now (the gathering) Just have to get my own castings and compost going.
nomoreschwag
Member
Is PBP one of the nute lines that should be avoided like the plague when re-useing soil?
I've always used PBP and then just bought more stuff and made a new batch of soilless mix. Now I have tubs of old soil sitting around that I've been waiting to go dump on the back 40, but I would much rather be able to reuse it all.
MY mix is peat, perlite, castings, and dolomite lime. I feed PBP grow & bloom. LK, indo bat guano, and blackstrap. Just incase that info will help make a difference.
I've always used PBP and then just bought more stuff and made a new batch of soilless mix. Now I have tubs of old soil sitting around that I've been waiting to go dump on the back 40, but I would much rather be able to reuse it all.
MY mix is peat, perlite, castings, and dolomite lime. I feed PBP grow & bloom. LK, indo bat guano, and blackstrap. Just incase that info will help make a difference.
3BM
Member
Hey NMS:
The Pure Blend line by botanicare is the organic division of GH if I remember correctly. These products should work fine in soil remixes, but you might flush the pots thoroughly before reclaiming to remove any unwanted salt buildup. Also, for long term remixing think about adding wood fiber to the mix. This will add longevity and prevent acidity as the peat deteriorates and concentrates in the mix. Cutting the mix with FFOF or another forest compost containing potting soil should work fine. Nurseries sell a pure wood fiber product for moisture retention and soil conditioning (sometimes called "Moisture saver") just look for an ingredient line like "composted forest products", "forest humus", "composted forest matter" etc. Otherwise your mix sounds great. Hope that helps.
3BM
The Pure Blend line by botanicare is the organic division of GH if I remember correctly. These products should work fine in soil remixes, but you might flush the pots thoroughly before reclaiming to remove any unwanted salt buildup. Also, for long term remixing think about adding wood fiber to the mix. This will add longevity and prevent acidity as the peat deteriorates and concentrates in the mix. Cutting the mix with FFOF or another forest compost containing potting soil should work fine. Nurseries sell a pure wood fiber product for moisture retention and soil conditioning (sometimes called "Moisture saver") just look for an ingredient line like "composted forest products", "forest humus", "composted forest matter" etc. Otherwise your mix sounds great. Hope that helps.
3BM
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vonforne
bump
nomoreschwag
Member
Good deal! I'll have to look for some wood fiber the next time im out at the nursery. Now I just need to go track down all the additives to regenerate my soil while its just sitting in the Rubbermaid...
Thanks for the help. Nice to see someone continueing the 3LB's teachings.
Thanks for the help. Nice to see someone continueing the 3LB's teachings.
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vonforne
In my outdoor spot I have been picking up some things like this on sale lately and building up my spot for next season. At lowes they have a potting soil that is called Jungle growth and it is 50% wood fiber or forest products. With perlite. But I only use it outdoors. it seems to be doing very well. It already has a colony of worms working it. To it I add grass clipping and all the things my yard is yeilding now. Lots of different stages of decomposition going on there.
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vonforne
bump
nomoreschwag
Member
Alright I've got my soil mixing now and I have a few questions...
My Rubbermaid of soil is starting to stink now that I have all that stuff in there. I assume this is a good thing?It smells like compost etc... I've been turning it every couple days and its warm in the middle. Again I figured this was a good sign. Should I be turning it, or just let it sit and do its thing?
And lastly (for now). Ive been putting the lid on the rubbermaid, should this thing be able to breath or is it ok to close the lid as long as I open it every day or two?
My Rubbermaid of soil is starting to stink now that I have all that stuff in there. I assume this is a good thing?It smells like compost etc... I've been turning it every couple days and its warm in the middle. Again I figured this was a good sign. Should I be turning it, or just let it sit and do its thing?
And lastly (for now). Ive been putting the lid on the rubbermaid, should this thing be able to breath or is it ok to close the lid as long as I open it every day or two?
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vonforne
I leave the ligd to my container slightly open to allow freah air to reach the composting soil. you also must keep the soil moist...not wet. You should also turn the soil completely each day. mix thourghly and re-cover.
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3BM
Member
Hey Nomore:
Is the smell you describe "earthy" (as opposed to "acrid")? Foul acrid smells are amonia compounds produced by anaerobic bacterial activity, and we do not want these. Turning the soil regularly ensures that it remains oxygenated, and prevents anaerobic bacteria from taking over. Turning the dirt with a shovel works fine every week. Leave the lid on the container when you want to conserve moisture, or leave it off completely to let moisture escape.
Typically, I loosely mix soil amendments the first time through. After this initial mixing, I water it in. I place the lid on tightly without mixing the water in. After a week of sitting like this, I give it a good mixing with a shovel. I may also dump the mix from container to container a few times. I leave it like this for another week, after which I shovel it around checking for adequate moisture, texture, and a nice cool temperature. Now the mix is ready for use. It can sit like this for as long as you need, just keep the lid on tight and shovel it around every few weeks to keep it oxygenated. Hope that sheds a little light.
3BM
Is the smell you describe "earthy" (as opposed to "acrid")? Foul acrid smells are amonia compounds produced by anaerobic bacterial activity, and we do not want these. Turning the soil regularly ensures that it remains oxygenated, and prevents anaerobic bacteria from taking over. Turning the dirt with a shovel works fine every week. Leave the lid on the container when you want to conserve moisture, or leave it off completely to let moisture escape.
Typically, I loosely mix soil amendments the first time through. After this initial mixing, I water it in. I place the lid on tightly without mixing the water in. After a week of sitting like this, I give it a good mixing with a shovel. I may also dump the mix from container to container a few times. I leave it like this for another week, after which I shovel it around checking for adequate moisture, texture, and a nice cool temperature. Now the mix is ready for use. It can sit like this for as long as you need, just keep the lid on tight and shovel it around every few weeks to keep it oxygenated. Hope that sheds a little light.
3BM
