organic ferts - asking for help

[highlife4me]

I've always grown in soil, but I have always used chemical ferts. I have decided for several reasons that I would like to switch to organic ferts, but I want to keep it simple. I would appreciate any suggestions you all have out there, keeping in mind that I want to keep it simple (don't want to mix stuff, would rather it just be a simple "mix 2 teaspoons of this per gallon of water" and you're good). So, brand suggestions? Links are also appreciated if you would like to direct me somewhere for additional info. I plan on buying one bottle for veg and one bottle for flower, probably one quart of each, whatever they may be. If you have used these organic nutes before I also would love to know how much you used and how often (i.e., every time you watered, 2 teaspoons per gallon). Don't want to make things difficult, but out of curiousity, do you still need to flush throughout the grow? I would think that since organic nutes aren't salt based (at least I don't think they would be) then it shouldn't be a prob, but not sure, that's why I'm asking. So far the brands I've looked at are G.H. (General Hydroponics), Fox Farms, Advanced Nutrients (looks too complicated and pricey though), and a few others. So what do you ALL think? Thanks!

 

[I.M. Boggled]

Pure Blend Pro, not 100% organic, but thinks it is ;~)

Pure Blend Pro, not 100% organic, but thinks it is ;~)

PURE BLEND PRO product description...

Pure Blend Pro® is a hydro-organic vegetative and fruit and flower formula. A specialty custom blend of organic and natural sources of the essential major, secondary, and trace plant nutrients in 100% soluable form - from the land and sea.

Pure Blend Pro® is a stand-alone, one part hydro-organic single stage vegetative and fruit and flower formula. Producing vigorous lush green vegetation and superior fruits, flowers, and vegetables. A healthy alternative to the environment, as well as increased nutritional value in fruits and vegetables.

Benefits of Using Pure Blend Pro:
Only a few benefits are described herein. The user will undoubtedly discover many more benefits in addition to the following:

Essential elements are not derived from harmful chemicals such as urea and high concentrates of ammonia nitrate.

Eliminates the danger of exposing plants (and ultimately the consumer) to toxic, heavy elements such as arsenic, mercury, selenium, etc. which often occur as contaminants in conventional chemical fertilizers.

The organic components of Pure Blend Pro® enhance uptake and utilization of plant nutrients.

Plants acquire increased pathogen resistance and hardiness.

Metabolic rate and capacity is greatly amplified enabling the grower to produce fruits and vegetables that contain greater amounts of minerals and vitamins that are crucial for human nutrition.

The budding, flowering, fruiting capacity of plants is greatly increased.

 

[Guest]

I use the Pure Blend Pro for hydro from Botanicare as listed above. But I also ammend with Liquid Karma, Cal-Mag, Silica Blast, and Top Max from Bio Bizz.

Top max is a 100% organic bloom boost that I am trying instead of using Kabloom which is not organic. Botanicare has a bloom boost that I have not tried called Hydroplex and it is 100%organic.

Look at Bio Bizz, Botanicare(pure blend) and Fox Farm

http://www.fertisource.com for Bio Bizz

http://www.americanagritech.com/nutrients.html for pure blend

http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/ for Foxfarm

I use foxfarm soil for my mothers and I run hydro in my grow
hope this help a little

Tex

 

[Anhedonia]

This is the one that I have tried: bag soil with addeded blood and bone meal (.25cup /3 gal), I'm not fully expeienced with this as of yet but it's working great at the moment. I don't think that I'll have to add any more nutrients right now, but it's only in the first few weeks of flowering, I could be shown wrong.

You could go with BOG's mix (just do a search) for soil and he obviously has great results with his organic soil.

I would suggest organic compost teas will give you all that you need from veg to flower without any problems and probably without any nutrient burn (this is speculative but from things I've read it's supported, check out studies from universities that talk about compst teas and plant defense. search pubmed or something). I'm trying these next on my personal grow as I believe it is actually more "organic" than other stuff. Also, the plants may benifit from a specific bloom enhancer along with the compost tea during flowering (like bloom boost and Kabloom that have already been mentioned, as well as CO2 of course).

Another issue since you are talking specifically organics here. A lot of organic fertilizers are simply derived from organic sources, but their compositions are pure chemicals that have been extracted from such "organic sources". They are still very refined and pure chemicals (ie, flora nova, fox farm, pure blend, eath juice). I'm not saying that one is better than the other, or that these "organic" supplements are better than chemical ferts, or vise versa, but they may still need flushing although they promote "organic". And really (chemically-wise) they are about the same thing. A pure chemical is pure chemical no matter where you got it from.

This is like talking about synthetic mescaline and mescaline derived from a plant source (peyote, san pedro, peruvian trouch). People claim up and down that there is a difference between the two but they are not really talking about simply mescaline at that point (mescaline accounts for most of the effect, but there are other psychoactive chemicals present when you injest the plant sources).

Back to your direct question: I haven't been growing long so I haven't had the joy of trying any of these; G.H. FloraNova seems to be the reported easiest to use of the concentrated nutrients (search OG or this forum, people are talking...) because they are a one-shot formula. You will also hear about people that like the control that a multi-part nutirent will give you (ie, fox farm and eath juice). This may be appropriate for people who enjoy this much control, but for the average grower, and the average pot plant, this much control isn't needed (unless for some extremely obscure plant). You are going to get mega results from about anything.

Other sources can be found, don't trust the manufacturors' descriptions and results (this is practical objective reasoning, nothing against the manufacturer or distributor), look for studies and personal accounts (there are plently on the mj forums, and do a google, you'll find a lot of opinions and facts).

hope you have success

 

[highlife4me]

I.M. Boggled: Thank you
Texas Kid: Thank you
Anhedonia: Thank you

Seriously guys, I appreciate all the help. So far I'm leaning toward the G.H. FloraNova because of how easy it appears to be to use. But I'm still open to suggestions. I like to keep this simple because then there is less to screw up, and since some of us who smoke a lot of this stuff don't have the short term memory we used to have it helps me make sure I don't forget a step, or two, or three... lol I don't know that there are a lot of soil growers that use one step organic fertilizers, but I'm going to take a look around and see if anyone uses the G.H. FloraNova series here in that fashion. Feel free to pipe up if you do and are reading this But anyone else who has comments/suggestions please post as well.

 

[KRS Juan]

I would recommend using soil nutes and not hydro nutes (gh). I have a theory (http://www.icmag.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4003) that hydro nutes dont take advantage of soil's pluses over hydro. They will work, but they wont provide the ideal soil conditions.

I use Fish Emulsion, worm castings, and high-N bat guano in veg, and Pure Blend Pro Bloom for soil in flower. I add Liquid Karma, nitrozyme, EJ catalyst and microblast throughout. Totally organic and the plants love it all. The great thing about Pure Blend Pro is it's all inclusive, meaning it's both macro and micro nutes.

Just because they are organic does't make make then not salt. They are just salts derived from natural sources wrather than chemical means.

You will always need to flush. First to remove nitrogen before flowering, and again to remove excess nutes for taste.

-KRS Juan-

 

[highlife4me]

KRS Juan:
The GH FloraNova is not supposed to be stictly hydro nutes. The descriptions I've read about it have always said hydro or soil.

Although I do appreciate all advice, I'm interested in what works from growers own experiences, not theories. Like I said, I still appreciate the input, so I hope you don't take that the wrong way.

 

[friendlyfriend]

Highlife why not Soma's method... but I am 100% with Tex... he's the man... look at his results... plus I use the same nutes as him and pureblend pro. I have the gh 3 part and its not that good... IMHO. but thats just me good luck

 

[Capt. Crip]

Original Pure Blend

Original Pure Blend

This is the best organic additive IMO.It's like a syrup!It is better than the Pure Blend Pro for organics.The Pro is a better stand-alone nutrient.I've used both extensively and the original is by far the better organic product.It will allow you to use less than half of your normal ferts and add tons of organic flavor.I'll post a pic with the ingredients on the back of the bottle.Photo URL:

Photo URL:

 

[Guest]

CC, now you have me second guessing myself.

I used to use the regular Pure Blend for veg and bloom with basically the same ammendments as I do now(liquid Karma, Cal-Mag, Silica Blast, and Kabloom)

I swithed to the Pro because it claimed to have had additional Humic and fulvic acids added to help with nute uptake and root health, Something I think I would have eventually added to the regular Pure blend to even it out.

Do you add the Cal-Mag? It really seemed to give a better looking canopy and color across the board.

I did not have super results running the Pro as a stand alone nute. I was still adding stuff to even it out.

Tex

 

[Capt. Crip]

I agree

I agree

The Pro is a little hyped!I have absolutely excellent results using Flora Nova and Original Pure Blend.I only use 1 tablespoon of Flora Nova to 7 gallons of water,but I add a tablespoon of Pure Blend for EVERY gallon of water used.It does not raise your PPM very much at all but makes the other nutes work so much better.That is actually what it was designed for,to be used in conjunction with your favorite nutrient.Towards the last couple of weeks of flower I discontinue the Flora Nova and use just Pure Blend to finish them and add extra flavor.It really puts on odor and flavor.You won't believe the difference in Pro and Original Pure Blend.Their nothing alike.The original looks like mud coming out of the bottle and youcan see through the Pro.
The odor of the Original is fabulous,has to be smelled to understand what I talking about.
You should at least give it a try,it comes in quarts or gallons.Awesome stuff!!!!
The combination of these 2 will grow perfect dark green plants all the way through harvest!Photo URL:

Pic of soil plant grown using these 2 nutrients.Take care.............CC Perfect coloring through harvest!

 

[Guest]

Thanks CC

I'll re-up on the regular Pure Blend my next visit to the hydrostore. I will give it another go for a test.

Thanks again CC

Tex

 

[KRS Juan]

KRS Juan:
The GH FloraNova is not supposed to be stictly hydro nutes. The descriptions I've read about it have always said hydro or soil.

Although I do appreciate all advice, I'm interested in what works from growers own experiences, not theories. Like I said, I still appreciate the input, so I hope you don't take that the wrong way.

Did you even read my post?

They will work, but they wont provide the ideal soil conditions.

I never said they wont work in soil, just that they wont work as well as a soil nute.

I use Fish Emulsion, worm castings, and high-N bat guano in veg, and Pure Blend Pro Bloom for soil in flower. I add Liquid Karma, nitrozyme, EJ catalyst and microblast throughout

Does that look like theory? This is what I use in a real garden that produces extremely excellent herb.

You have 5 very knowledgable people here telling you to use Pure Blend/PB Pro from first hand experience.

-KRS Juan-

 

[Capt. Crip]

KRS

KRS

I read and liked it You use a lot of good quality products!Take care and you have PM..........................CC

 

[Guest]

I'm a soil grower and a big fan of fish emulsions

I've been using 5-1-1 during Veg
2-5-1 during flowering
with great results and a smooth pungent taste that you can't get with chems

fyi: you should be able to find them just about any decent home/garden area...I have 3 different brands that I currently use
cost around $5 a bottle...one bottle should last for many, many grows

 

[highlife4me]

KRS, yes, I did read your post. And theory is all you have going for you when it comes to information regarding your reasoning that hydro nutes don't work as well in soil. I thanked you for your info, so I don't need you to try to hammer your opinion at me. I was polite before and I try to be at all times, however organics is very confusing to me as I'm not used to the idea of mixing things for your nutes. I thank everyone who has replied, but I don't think I understand what you are talking about. You are talking about organics in the language of someone who uses organics, so I can not comprehend the information. It's like me talking to someone in the 18th century about a computers FSB and benefits of synchronous busing. I was hoping for someone to rec. a one-step solution for organics. Is there no one-step that is any good? I don't know, I feel like I'm being as ass, maybe I should just forget the idea of organics. I'd really like to try it, but I'm not extremely pleasant to be around when I'm frustrated... and that makes it really difficult for someone to actually want to hold my hand and teach me how to walk and talk (basics).

 

[Guest]

Bare bones straight forward organics follow Soma's lead.

A good rich base soil (foxfarm or BioBizz) and ammend with a Bat guano solution.

Thats it. You might also try to get your hands on the Soma isssue of Heads magazine from 3 months back, Soma himself goes through step by step simple but extreamly affective organic setup.

When you get your feet wet a little with organics you will have question you haven't even thought about yet, but that's the fun of this hobby. At least you will be off and runnin.

There is alot of differences in the way they stack and stage nutes to get great results. I happen to run organic hydro and some of that knowledge passes over to soil but it's just a different process all together.

The GH floranova one part is an option, read HOG's post he is running it now plus there is a thread on here that is solely talking abiout the GH one part with mixed reviews.

Hope that helps a little

Tex

 

[highlife4me]

Thanks Tex, I was a little grumpy earlier (I just needed to smoke a bowl), and I apologize to everyone for that. Now Tex, you mention just a good rich base soil and ammend with a Bat guano solution and that's it? and what exactly do you mean by ammend with a bat guano solution? -like everytime I water I add it? and if that, how much would I add? I'll search for those threads you mentioned regarding GH floranova; are either of them soil grows or are they both hydro? Thanks again!

 

[highlife4me]

oh, and this is the soil I use (and have always liked), if you care to leave any comments about it (likes/dislikes):
http://www.sungro.com/products/allorganicpottingsoil.html

 

[Guest]

No worries bro,

When we say "ammend" all we are really saying is "add". So you are basically ammending/adding the inert fert/nutes already found in the soil.

Black Gold is killer, orchid growers love that shit. I have never used it personally but when I am in Hawaii I notice alot of the growers use it with great success.(it's cheap over there also)

Bat guano can be bought at hydro stores or some garden centers have it. The stuff Soma uses is some special stuff though and a little hard to find. I have an article about Soma's soil prep that I will find tomorrow at my office and shoot it to ya, it has alot of good info in it as well.

I would get the following: Heads Magazine #023 Somarama addition. You can call 1-450-458-1934 or email your request to [email protected] There is all the information you could possibly need to make a good run organically, the best $6.00 you will spend.

I'll post some stuff for ya in the morning or sometime tomorrow

Tex