Organic Fanatic Collective

[cosmiccowboy]

Nice write up LadyLargely but most of this we already follow. I for one have been using coco added into the substrate for some time and now have added the clay gravel minus the sir tubes in my mix.
Most of us that have been here for a while use ACT and compost all of our own materials. No bottled ferts. Only organic materials.

Mine is great but you forgot to mention in what ratios that pertain to the growth stage. I prefer a fungal dominate soil and ACT in flowering.

But you forgot t mention that unsulfered is the best choice.

2: Sock Method



It is best to use a 400 micron mesh for this. I have used this method in the past but have learned better.



If yopu are a soil builder like we are then measuring NPK ratios is irrelevant. The soil will contains these and adding an ACT to the substrate with fresh micro life.....the will provide everything the plant needs.

V

vonforne,thats why i dont want to use any synthetic fertilize..havin to worry about all that ph this and ph that is total insanity..its not for me..after i get this stuff harvested,there wont be any more of that soap powder lookin plant food shit around me..

 

[LadyLargely]

Good stuff V, its clear who here is the organic master and who is the bright young upstart.

Nice write up LadyLargely but most of this we already follow. I for one have been using coco added into the substrate for some time and now have added the clay gravel minus the sir tubes in my mix.
Most of us that have been here for a while use ACT and compost all of our own materials. No bottled ferts. Only organic materials.

Sounds a lot like me! I run a big outdoor active compost pile and I have a special dislike for designer liquid organic nutes. I do buy organics but only simple low-cost powdered organic constituents.

But you forgot t mention that unsulfered is the best choice.

Mine is great but you forgot to mention in what ratios that pertain to the growth stage. I prefer a fungal dominate soil and ACT in flowering.

I did forget to mention that stuff. I thought going un-sulfured was a no-brainier, but I guess not. As for micro-life ratios I never have to bother with that. Growing with Bio Box means that the fungal life completely dominates the soil structure no matter what. No intervention from me can change that. Because of this I like to have lots of highly-active aerobic bacteria living in my medium as well. Because of the conditions Bio Box provides nothing could possible over-throw the present fungus. This lets me really pile on the bacteria without worrying about overall health of my microherd. Aerobacteria are handy for fighting off infection and breaking down the old root ball for re-use once I cut the plants down at the end.

If yopu are a soil builder like we are then measuring NPK ratios is irrelevant. The soil will contains these and adding an ACT to the substrate with fresh micro life.....the will provide everything the plant needs.

Actually V I consider myself a soil engineer! I do more work to and pay more attention to the build-up of my organic mediums than most gardeners I meet. I realize that my fungal network is feeding the plant all nutrients intravenously and that nutes are automatically provided in the correct ratios through the symbiotic relationship that the fungus and plant roots form.

BUT, I think that N/P/K ratios still have a place in organic gardening. See, unlike most organic gardeners I am very aggressive with my nutrient schedules. I do things most organic gardeners could never do; like going through full-blown flush/starve feeding cycles in flower.

When you push organics as hard as I do N/P/K ratios come back into play. I am also a huge proponent of environmental factors having an influence on the sexual expression of cannabis. There is evidence to suggest that high-nitrogen low-potassium nutrient ratios lead to more female plants. It is for this reason that N/P/K ratios are vital for me. Less aggressive, less voodoo-ey gardeners never have to pay ratios any mind.

thanks for the organic tutorial,but that really doesnt have anything to do with my question.have been studying organic soil for 2 months and have 50 gallon of it cookin..these plants have no connection to organics....heres my question:..i've got 4 plants that have gone all the way to flower in miracle grow moisture control.have been in flower 1 week..what will happen if i feed them a tea of alfalfa meal,and or kelp meal,and or compost and manure,and or molasses?.i dont want to create ph problems with synthetic fertilizer.i dont know much,but i've learned 2 things so far...dont kill yer plants,and keep it simple...especially if you have no experience with current medium...comprende?

Sorry man, I was trying to answer your questions with technique.

I was just telling you about the most effective ways for you to get active organic nutrients working on your plants quickly. These tea techniques are your best bet if you want to try to get a fast dose of organic nitrogen to the plants.

But if you have no micro-life then the point is moot. If you are just growing in straight-up miracle grow soil and nothing else then you prolly have no real micro-herd. Because of this your benefits from organic teas will be very limited! Any nutrients provided by your organic teas will have to find their way into the plant via osmosis. Organic nutes do not do well in osmosis-only situations. They do not go through ionization like artificial salt nutes do. Without the assistance of micro-life you will be lucky to get 10% of the nutrients from your teas actually into the plants.

Organic nutes can fuck with the pH too! If you have no microbes to capture and utilize the organic substances then they start to break down through anaerobic processes which can cock up your soil pretty badly. I speak from experience here. I once pre-loaded lots of organic nutes into a coco-based medium. I neglected to provide for microbes at all, because at the time I was very ignorant. On the fourth day of the grow I opened the cab and smelled amonia! All the plants promptly keeled over.

This is why you might just wanna sneak some synthetic salt nutes in there to get your plants to the end. Just mix them up mild and follow the directions for potted plants, it won't cock up the pH too much. Not enough to cause problems. The only issue with using salt nutes on soil is that it kills microbes, but it doesn't sound like you have a lot of them anyway.

 

[cosmiccowboy]

Good stuff V, its clear who here is the organic master and who is the bright young upstart.



Sounds a lot like me! I run a big outdoor active compost pile and I have a special dislike for designer liquid organic nutes. I do buy organics but only simple low-cost powdered organic constituents.



I did forget to mention that stuff. I thought going un-sulfured was a no-brainier, but I guess not. As for micro-life ratios I never have to bother with that. Growing with Bio Box means that the fungal life completely dominates the soil structure no matter what. No intervention from me can change that. Because of this I like to have lots of highly-active aerobic bacteria living in my medium as well. Because of the conditions Bio Box provides nothing could possible over-throw the present fungus. This lets me really pile on the bacteria without worrying about overall health of my microherd. Aerobacteria are handy for fighting off infection and breaking down the old root ball for re-use once I cut the plants down at the end.



Actually V I consider myself a soil engineer! I do more work to and pay more attention to the build-up of my organic mediums than most gardeners I meet. I realize that my fungal network is feeding the plant all nutrients intravenously and that nutes are automatically provided in the correct ratios through the symbiotic relationship that the fungus and plant roots form.

BUT, I think that N/P/K ratios still have a place in organic gardening. See, unlike most organic gardeners I am very aggressive with my nutrient schedules. I do things most organic gardeners could never do; like going through full-blown flush/starve feeding cycles in flower.

When you push organics as hard as I do N/P/K ratios come back into play. I am also a huge proponent of environmental factors having an influence on the sexual expression of cannabis. There is evidence to suggest that high-nitrogen low-potassium nutrient ratios lead to more female plants. It is for this reason that N/P/K ratios are vital for me. Less aggressive, less voodoo-ey gardeners never have to pay ratios any mind.



Sorry man, I was trying to answer your questions with technique.

I was just telling you about the most effective ways for you to get active organic nutrients working on your plants quickly. These tea techniques are your best bet if you want to try to get a fast dose of organic nitrogen to the plants.

But if you have no micro-life then the point is moot. If you are just growing in straight-up miracle grow soil and nothing else then you prolly have no real micro-herd. Because of this your benefits from organic teas will be very limited! Any nutrients provided by your organic teas will have to find their way into the plant via osmosis. Organic nutes do not do well in osmosis-only situations. They do not go through ionization like artificial salt nutes do. Without the assistance of micro-life you will be lucky to get 10% of the nutrients from your teas actually into the plants.

Organic nutes can fuck with the pH too! If you have no microbes to capture and utilize the organic substances then they start to break down through anaerobic processes which can cock up your soil pretty badly. I speak from experience here. I once pre-loaded lots of organic nutes into a coco-based medium. I neglected to provide for microbes at all, because at the time I was very ignorant. On the fourth day of the grow I opened the cab and smelled amonia! All the plants promptly keeled over.

This is why you might just wanna sneak some synthetic salt nutes in there to get your plants to the end. Just mix them up mild and follow the directions for potted plants, it won't cock up the pH too much. Not enough to cause problems. The only issue with using salt nutes on soil is that it kills microbes, but it doesn't sound like you have a lot of them anyway.

looks like i finally got ye on the same page with me.hehehe...guess i'm gonna have to use some of that miracle grow pant food...

 

[Guest 88950]

Benefits Of Kelp.......It has been proven that kelp or what is in kelp can accelerate growth,
increase fruiting and flowering, provide resistance to disease, insects
and frost

being a new organic-head and reading this thread i only got as far as JayKush's post quoted above stating the benefits of kelp before i had a question.

if the above excerpt is true then what about harvesting fast growing bamboo when they are at their peak production of the growth hormones ect. and make bamboo meal?

does bamboo meal exist? if so then would there be any benefit of using multiple meals that are high in the growth hormones or is all the hormones the same, therefor kelp meal is all thats needed and "no need to reinvent the wheel".

 

[jaykush]

bamboo doesn't grow in a nutrient rich ocean like kelp does.

if you keep reading the thread, you will get to a method to culture the micro organisms that live in/around the roots of bamboo.

 

[Guest 88950]

jaykush, thanks for responding and i did keep reading and saw that you can culture plant specific micro organisms but by that time i was medicated.

i live in a tropical environment and bamboo flourishes here and down the road i will definitly harvest the micro's around bamboo roots b/c i dont see where it could hurt to have diversity in your micro herd.

ive got a long and enjoyable road ahead of me learning from the all my teachers here at ICC (International Cannagrapgic College).

thanks ya'll

 

[Igotyourback]

Great Info, Thanks Alot

 

[Senor_Bueno]

Suby. thanks for starting this thread and keeping it growing for 90 plus pages. I am fan of organic growing. Espeially what the microbial life does for the soil and the rest of the plant all the way up to the tippy top of colas. Life on earth simply couldnt exist without the soilbiota chuging us along. A big one LOVE to the life under our toes!!!

 

[maryjohn]

Lady largely, I do not consider your methods as described organic, and would like to discourage newbies from emulating it. If you are flooding your medium with ionic nutes, regardless of the source, you are growing conventionally.

In organic growing the plant and soil act as one organism and they take care of each other. The distinction is important, especially from a sustainability standpoint. Your soil should be growing slightly and your runoff should be quite clean when all is well. Microbes don't give up nutes when you rinse them.

 

[vonforne]

Lady largely, I do not consider your methods as described organic, and would like to discourage newbies from emulating it. If you are flooding your medium with ionic nutes, regardless of the source, you are growing conventionally.

In organic growing the plant and soil act as one organism and they take care of each other. The distinction is important, especially from a sustainability standpoint. Your soil should be growing slightly and your runoff should be quite clean when all is well. Microbes don't give up nutes when you rinse them.

I would have to second that. I would not discourage anyone from using it but would discourage anyone wanting to grow organic soil to try it.

And with the tubs I am using the run off is nice and clear.

V

 

[quadracer]

Thought this was interesting... I wanted to post in the Piss thread.

Pee to help make your garden grow

Gardeners at a National Trust property in Cambridgeshire are urging people to relieve themselves outdoors to help gardens grow greener.

A three-metre long "pee bale" has been installed at Wimpole Hall.

Head gardener Philip Whaites is urging his male colleagues to pee on the straw bale to activate the composting process on the estate's compost heap.

He said the "pee bale" is only in use out of visitor hours, since "we don't want to scare the public".

He said: "For eight weeks now, male members of our garden and estate teams have been using the outdoor straw bale when nature calls.

"The pee bale is excellent matter to add to our compost heap to stimulate the composting process; and with over 400 acres of gardens and parkland to utilise compost, we need all the help we can get.

"There are obvious logistical benefits to limiting it to male members of the team, but also male pee is preferable to women's, as the male stuff is apparently less acidic."

By the end of the year, it was calculated that the 10 men from the 70-strong garden and estates team will make more 1,000 individual trips to the pee bale, contributing towards the compost for the estate.

The estate said it will have saved up to 30% of its daily water use by not having to flush the loo so many times.

Rosemary Hooper, Wimpole estate's in-house master composter, said: "Most people can compost in some way in their own gardens.

"Peeing on a compost heap activates the composting process, helps to produce a ready supply of lovely organic matter to add back to the garden.

"Adding a little pee just helps get it all going; it's totally safe and a bit of fun too."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cambridgeshire/8357134.stm

 

[Trichgnomes]

I would have to second that. I would not discourage anyone from using it but would discourage anyone wanting to grow organic soil to try it.

And with the tubs I am using the run off is nice and clear.

V

So this is my first post, been reading things from the forums that I have found interesting and in turn very valuable to my setup. I had already known a lot about soil and plant science from classes I have taken and through experience/ friends, but these forums have helped me almost eliminate bottled nutes(will be gone completely by next grow) in exchange for dry bulk material, making AACT ( 60 LPM pump for 5 gallons, a bit overkill but better than not enough) etc. Thanks to all of those that have shared his/her wealth of knowledge (Microbeman, CT Guy, Jaykush, Suby, V, MJ, et al.

I have been curious about this technique that a lot of people seem to be flocking to, being the soil/hydro hybrid technique that has been described as an 'OBBT,' 'Supercharged Organics', amongst other things. I was curious as to what the more science-minded folks who are clearly both very well educated and have a lot of research/experience under their belt think of this technique. Obviously folks have had good results with this, but that does not necessarily mean that it works how it is described in terms of the 'explosive' micro-herd.

I guess what I am getting at in this rant of a post is, Does this method have a clear, science based advantage over a standard organic soil in pots? Is it a true soil?

MJ and V: Were you referring to the general method of growing, or to the way she employs the 'flush, feed, starve cycle'?
I would like to know if anyone like the posters I mentioned above have any input on this, because I have not seen one of them comment on the practicality/ benefits of this growing method.

I do not mean to belittle anyone's results/experience in growing this way by posting this. I am simply curious if people with 10+ years of experience, microscopes, DO2 meters, etc. have anything to say about this style of cultivation.

Thanks for reading, and I again wanted to extend my gratitude and appreciation for all of this open source knowledge. I feel as though I have learned a hell of a lot more in the past few months reading books and these forums then I did in three years of formal education at a University. Namaste

 

[jaykush]

I feel as though I have learned a hell of a lot more in the past few months reading books and these forums then I did in three years of formal education at a University.

you and me both! and it costs A LOT less lol.

 

[maryjohn]

MJ and V: Were you referring to the general method of growing, or to the way she employs the 'flush, feed, starve cycle'?
I would like to know if anyone like the posters I mentioned above have any input on this, because I have not seen one of them comment on the practicality/ benefits of this growing method.

Growing Organic includes having a living soil or functional part thereof to provide for all the plant's needs.

It's not the only way to grow, but it is the only way to grow Organic IMO. Others will disagree. No offense to them.

 

[Trichgnomes]

Growing Organic includes having a living soil or functional part thereof to provide for all the plant's needs.

It's not the only way to grow, but it is the only way to grow Organic IMO. Others will disagree. No offense to them.

I completely agree. I am wondering why this does not constitute as such. I interpret the oxygen-assisted resevoir as attempt to emulate the water table. Obviously it would be different, because it is closer to the soil, but when it comes to indoor gardening, ecology is always compromised, thus the grower does all in his/her power to create a highly diverse soil biology. Maybe I am oversimplifying things, but I don't see how this differs with your definition of Organics. It seems to be(by the info/pics from others, as I have not done it, and do strictly organic soil in regular containers) a living entity. Is is because of the inert media like hydroton, lava rocks and such? Because other than that, it seems as though it would be highly productive in supporting microlife, considering the constant aeration.
Once I get a better microscope and a DO2 meter, I plan on doing a test run with one or two plants in 7.8 gallon buckets (from the brew store). I will be running this in conjunction with my standard soil mix 7 gallon buckets, in a month or so. I just want to see some side-by-side results of a soil and the DM/LL style of growing. What's so great about it? Does it taste better? Higher yield? More resilient plants?
Again I mean no disrespect to those using this method, I am just trying to get some less subjective information on the matter at hand.
In the meantime,

 

[maryjohn]

it's not the reservoir I took issue with. It was the addition of nutrients in ionic form and management as such with the goal and result of directly feeding the plant.

 

[*mistress*]

quick question for the organic fanatics...

do the following organic fertilizers have a shelf life?
ieg, lose effectiveness over time?
if so, how long?

in 'cool, dry place'...

*earth juice bloom 0-3-1

*super tea mix (guano co) .05-.10-.02

thx. enjoy your garden!

 

[C21H30O2]

quick question for the organic fanatics...

do the following organic fertilizers have a shelf life?
ieg, lose effectiveness over time?
if so, how long?

kept in 'cool, dry place'...

*earth juice bloom 0-3-1

*super tea mix (guano co) .05-.10-.02

thx. enjoy your garden!

instead of buying something out of a bottle why not simply buy some bat guano, bone meal, or soft rock phosphate. Mix some into some clean water make a tea and drench your soil. For the price you pay for one bottle that would last perhaps a grow or two you will get enough dry ferts to last you a decade or two. cheap does not equal inferior it equals knowledgeable.

 

[*mistress*]

.....

 

[maryjohn]

does not answer questions from post.

Because he is not your research assistant. His answer was to give you the info your question said you needed, even if it isn't what you want to hear. Your comment is rude.

Why don't you contact the companies? They will be happy to answer I am sure.