Organic Fanatic Collective

[PHB]

Anyway, I have been using two heaping tbsns of dry milk powder to one liter my teas (after it has bubbled- I have done it the other way- wow what a mess and smell) and I have seen a tremendious almost exponential jump in health and vigor. Incredable.

minds_I,
Thanks for the info, I am definitely intrigued. Can you give more detail on exactly what you are seeing and how the before/after compare to one another?

Also, how long have you been adding the dry milk?

Thanks,
PHB

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

PHB, the benefits I am seeing are no Mg or Ca defs. Increased vigor and growthrate. I have been using the dry milk now for about 2 months.

I have not smoked any buds grown completely with milk added but will in about 3 weeks.

 

[Suby]

Hey MI,

Great find, I was saying to myself that I was sure I had posted/read something on the use of dried milk as a protein sources in teas, I fished it out and though we might review it.
Skim milk is supposed to also be good for fighting powdery mildew as well as working well in a tea.

Next we need to provide the organisms in our compost sampling with a source of carbon so that they can grow well. There is some variation here, such as what organisms use what sugar sources. As a rule, bacteria can usually grow faster than fungi in a broth that they like. However, fungi have the advantage of being able to metabolize carbon sources that most bacteria cannot, such as lignin and cellulose. That difference allows us some control here regarding the end result of our tea. Theoretically, in order to have a tea that is richer in fungi than in bacteria, the sugar source should be nearly all lignin or cellulose (there will still be bacteria, as the fungi release by-products that bacteria can live on).
Conversely, if we use dextrose as a sugar source, bacteria will proliferate, and the tea will have much more bacteria than fungi (there will still be fungi, since fungi can metabolize dextrose as well). If you are wondering why this is important, fungal teas are more helpful in fighting fungal pathogens, such as leaf blight. Also, the soil biota play an important role in succession, so treatment of the soil may help in restoration efforts. To give an idea of what this means, conifer-forest soil usually has more fungi than bacteria, due to the high amounts of lignin available and a lower soil pH. Grassy meadows usually have a much higher level of bacteria than fungi: because of the lack of wood sources, the bacteria out compete the fungi. For production and garden soil, the ideal is equal amounts of bacteria and fungi. This may seem simple, but in reality, the bacteria tend to dominate.
Once the tea is applied, nature will determine which plants will make it and which will die. Cost is another issue, depending on the amount of tea being made. Since sugar will ultimately constitute 20% of your mixture, choosing your source wisely can save much money. Molasses is a cheap sugar source, and it goes into solution well. Raw cane sugar can be used too, as can nearly any sugar source. Lignin and cellulose can be a little more difficult to find, but they are out there. The sugar source should be added to the water of the tea and allowed to dissolve before brewing starts.
One very important point to make here is that human pathogens can grow in a nonselective carbon source. Though not likely, it is a possibility and should be avoided. One way to avoid this is to use carbon sources that are complex sugars, which, unlike sucrose, require special enzymes to metabolize. Such a carbon source helps to select for soil biota. A simple rule is to look at what the microbes would be eating anyway. In the case of compost teas, plants are the common denominator. Vegetable and other plant extracts contain many compounds that are ideal carbon sources. Since very little research has been done on this, the sky is the limit for combinations and discovery.
Soil organisms also need a source of nitrogen in order to be able to make proteins and carry out basic life processes. Meat sources of protein are not going to work here, so don't even think about it. In general, meat has no place in the composting process, because it can potentially harbor some nasty little things that are pathogenic to humans. Yeast extract is a very good source of nitrogen, as it is just dried (lyophilized) yeast that has been ground up into a powder. It also contains other vitamins and minerals that are beneficial. Nonfat dried milk is another good source of proteins but it may take some extra processing, which may increase brewing time. Of course, flour, rice meal, wheat, etc. have protein in them, so there is a lot of room for experimentation in this area. A good amount for tea is to use 10% of your nitrogen source, although I would use about half that if using dried milk. In my opinion, the nitrogen should be from a non-animal source (yeast extract, rice flour, etc.), since it will be used on plants and should be processed as little as possible (for example, bleached flour is not recommended). Another exciting factor to consider is that many of the grains also contain complex carbohydrates, which means that you can be adding carbon and nitrogen in one fell swoop.

Could it be used a a soilid source of ammendment in a soilo mix or a compost destined for a future grow?

S

 

[Guest]

smurf -

I hear you on the azomite as a quality amendment to any soil mix. I have used a couple of local bagged products that use zeolite. I believe that it is quite similar if not the same. A volcanic in origin mineral complex. I believe that the zeolite is known to have a very high cation exchange rate and a good bit of ability to hold H2O molecules. I stopped using the local mix as it had composted mint that if grown locally is probably loaded with chems. The neocons that farm my area are the worst environmental criminals I have ever seen. I mean try walking by a mint field (soon to be gum/candy flavoring) that has a sign at each corner stating " PELIGRO" "DANGEROUS CHEMICALS IN USE" followed by a do not enter warning and resisting the urge to hunt the bastard down.




No chems here. I will find a source for the zeolite some day soon. It comes from a source in Utah as well. Also getting a product (from Utah) that is Humic shale ore and molasses with a little rock phosphate. Makes a nice amendment.

On the milk powder. No experience here, but I just imagine the smell of a empty milk container left in a hot car!!!

Peace

 

[jaykush]

you want proteins, enzymes, minerals and amino acids? still doing testing on getting the right amounts to use and how but i expect great things.

http://www.gogreen.net.nz/barleygrass-table.htm

that azomite looks like good stuff, i think i saw some at the local nursery ill have to check it out. ive seen products similar under different names as well.

 

[vonforne]

Milk.....it´s a Natural.

V

 

[Suby]

Hey Vman,

glad you are well and posting again!



Suby

 

[scruffy]

First off, thanks to all of you folks for gathering this info in one place. Especially Suby, Vonforne and Jay. I'm off to the store to get all the things I need to switch to organic growing. Just moved my veg room closer to my flower room, and during the switch I'm going all organic. I do it outside with veggies, so it makes sense (now that I've read all this) to do it indoors too. I've been composting and such for years, but the amount of information about teas, foliar feeding, and beneficial organisms is still a bit overwhelming. Sure I'll adjust in time. Looking forward to some tastier buds, healthier plants (and me), and hopefully giving something back for the next person. Later, scruff.

 

[Smurf]

G'day V man, good to see you back!

Yeah I'm a fan of Zeolite here too, Azeotrope. I've replaced the coarse river sand in my mixes now.

Happy gardening OFC.

 

[Relik]

Hi gang! Nice to see you back vonforne!! Just thought I'd drop by and say hello to my friends here

Yesterday I found molasses at the health store! Yay! I was using cane sugar and can't wait to try the molasses so I can compare both. Not too expensive IMO (at least considering the high prices we usually get down here), 500g for $6.00 USD, I think my wallet can handle it (the cane sugar ain't much cheaper anyways).

The label is in French but somewhat translated in English, it reads "Organic black treacle - naturally rich in iron, magnesium and calcium". So I was wondering where has my K gone? The nutrient content says that for every 100g it contains:
-protein 3.22g
-carbohydrates 70.7g
-fat <0.5g
-minerals 6.95g, of which:
*-calcium 525mg
*-magnesium 171mg
*-iron 14.9mg
*-vitamin B6 (didn't know it was a mineral...) 1.25mg

But it does not mention potassium... those mentioned mineral contents, summed up, represent 712.15mg, do you guys think I have around 6g of K for every 100g of molasses? 6 percent wouldn't surprise me much since molasses are supposed to be rich in K, but then why wouldn't it appear on the label?

Thanks for your help folks, keep it safe and green

 

[Guest]

Molasses will do you well. I have been using it for a long time along with cane products like sucanant.

My organic thoughts for today have been on worm castings. There is a huge difference in quality and I live in the land of conservative neocons that look at me funny when I go in to the local nursery and ask for organic products and earthworm castings. I have been going to HomeDesperate(home depot) and places buying BlackGold by Sunshine. I have been finding plastic, glass, bark and paper in the bags. Also I think that they are feeding them peat only.

I have discovered over the years that what goes in the worm is what comes out. So I travel to my homeland weekly and have started going to the grow shop I love and getting very high quality manure fed worm castings shipped home. The worms are fed manure from organically fed hormone free cattle and dairy cows. Huge difference in nutrient value and microbe contribution.

Do the rest of you fine folks get picky with your worm poo??

Azeo

 

[Scay Beez]

Azeotrope: Yeah..! Picky about my compost and worm castings like a wine snob. I've noticed leaps and bounds difference in my compost teas when I started using the best compost and worm castings I could find (Alaskan Humisoil/Nature's Solution worm castings). The nature's solution worm castings are fed a special diet with special herbs which increase nutrient content. Of course worm castings or anything that is supposed to be aerobic kept sealed in a plastic bag is not the best way to store it. Fresh home made worm castings fed special diets would be the ultimate. I haven't used black gold worm castings but their soil is very good. Good process that mixes it evenly and elminates weed seeds/pests. Unlike fox farm that gets mixed by bulldozers on asphalt (yuck!).

Cow and Horse manure as well. People feeding their horses ONLY alfalfa like RETARDS and have their horses develop kidney stones... don't want that shit in my food/herb.


Has anyone ever used grape molasses before? I want to try grow some purples with grape pumice, grape molasses, and vinegar next year for fun.

- sbz

 

[Greenbdman]

Sounds intresting....

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

I use a worm casting/compost mix from Organics Alive I get at the hydroshop.

This is the only ewc product I have ever used so my experience with other ewc products is limited.

Seems to do the trick.

minds_I
http://www.organicsalive.org/premium_mix.html

 

[Guest]

Nice links Jaykush

The soil structure link talked about nitrification diminishing the carbon in soil and so a constant topping of organic matter (carbon) was needed in order to produce a small percentage of humus over long term.

The whole time I'm reading about the lack of carbon and the high percentage of carbon inputs going into atmospheric carbon dioxide I'm thinking about Tera Preta, and charcoal providing long term fixed carbon. This method of sequestering carbon in the soil would involve some form of tilling obviously, but only once. These soils are productive for many years, then, left fallow, they rejuvenate.

So I'm thinking about Tera Preta and charcoal in back of mind and the paper goes on to mention coal based humus products (that have some detractors) which increase soil humus.

I'm seeing a link here.

 

[vonforne]

The last few posts goes along with what I try and always go by.......Quality! I see alot of growers buy expensive seeds and then put them into MG soil.........they get MG weed. Even if you keep you substrate down to a bare minimum as I will have to do on my next grow they still should be of high quality. Homemade is actually the best but due to a lot of peoples unique situation some times that is not the best option.

Quality worm castings and molasses is how I obtained the large foamy head on my teas. There is a noticeable difference when I use a lesser quality castings or molasses product.

Good posting everyone. And a >Guten Tag< to all the new posters in the OFC.

V

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

High guys

Got myself some dry baby milk to add to my feed and see how it goes...

Also i bought a product called 'ultimate greens' which contains Spriulina, Chlorella & Barley grass. Added a teaspoon to my latest batch of tea.

A friend of mine has told me he feeds his left over green tea to his plants with excellent results so that may be worth a try?

I will report back in a few days.

 

[space cowgirl]

I always throw leftover tea and coffee on my houseplants. Seems like they like it, although the coffee may be acidic in large doses.

 

[Scay Beez]

Also i bought a product called 'ultimate greens' which contains Spriulina, Chlorella & Barley grass. Added a teaspoon to my latest batch of tea.

Nice! Spirulina and chlorella will fix nitrogen from the air into the soil. Getting spirulina to mix into anything is not easy. I'm not sure if it becomes alive once it is rehydrated or not. I've used it a few times in the compost tea container but not sure if it mixes in properly. I'm more used to drinking them. Similar to algae. Liquid Karma uses fermented spirulina I believe. I also saw a product over at u n l e a s h t h e g r e e n . c o m called Micro Greens which appeared to be another microgreen based gardening product.


Love to see people experimenting with the organics!

- sbz

 

[SilverSurfer_OG]

So I'm thinking about Tera Preta and charcoal in back of mind and the paper goes on to mention coal based humus products (that have some detractors) which increase soil humus.

I'm seeing a link here.

Check this out for more info on Tera Preta: http://news.mongabay.com/2006/0514-amazon.html

I saw this today from gardening australia:
http://www.abc.net.au/gardening/video/default.htm?url=clips/petes_patch_ep37_2007.htm

Petes Patch ABC Australia
Gardening is nothing more than a series of experiments - we have successes and the occasional failures and that's how we learn. I'm going to experiment with an ancient method of retaining and increasing soil fertility using charcoal that’s been impregnated with organic fertilisers and micronutrients.

Charcoal or any kind of charred organic matter is a highly absorbent form of carbon. It does not decompose in the soil.

The recipe:
Use one third of a standard bucket of pulverised wood charcoal

Half a cup of fish emulsion, half a cup of seaweed concentrate and 4 teaspoons of mixed, soluble trace elements all dissolved into 2-3 litres of water in a separate bucket to make a strong, nutrient concentrate.

Method:
1 Place the charcoal safely in a strong bag. Moisten a little for safety reasons. Use a hammer or similar implement to crush and pulverise it into a fine dust. Then place the dust into an extra-large bucket. Avoid inhaling the dust – you might wear a protective face mask or respirator.
2 Pour the fertiliser-based nutrient concentrate into the charcoal dust. Leave to soak for 3 days.
3 Then add one third of a bucketful each of dry river (pit) sand and ordinary soil (not clay). Mix together thoroughly.
4 Don’t use a stronger mixture than suggested.

To use with tomatoes: Place a double handful of the impregnated charcoal, soil and sand mixture at each planting point and mix widely and deeply into the surrounding soil. Plant a seedling in the centre and water in.

To use with sweet corn: Make a 50mm deep drill or groove and widely dribble the charcoal mixture in and alongside it at the rate of a double handful per metre. Mix with surrounding soil. Sow sweet corn seeds into this and water. (When seedlings emerge they must be thinned so those remaining are spaced half a metre apart).

To use with seedlings of cabbages, cauliflowers, broccolis, kales, silverbeet and lettuces, add a good handful of the charcoal mix to each planting point and mix into the surrounding soil.

In order to make the experiment more reliable, plant or sow some vegetables into soil that has not received any charcoal treatment. Also try adding pulverised charcoal alone (without any fertilisers), to the soil around similar plants to help in arriving at more balanced results. The aim is to compare plant health, growth rate, yields and flavour.

Don’t use the enriched charcoal when growing carrots or parsnips as it may cause wasteful root-forking.

This is purely an experiment. It is roughly based on ancient techniques used by the people of the Amazon Basin over a thousand years ago.

We are asking interested Gardening Australia viewers and readers to try out this method and to let us know of any beneficial or other results.

________________________________________________________________________________


NOTE: The charcoal we used in this experiment came from an old pile of burnt wood. Charcoal lumps (not ash) can also be retrieved cold from an extinguished wood-stove or fireplace.


@Scay Beez

Spirulina come back to life?! That sounds interesting...