Organic amendments and fertilizers in Canada.

[PaulieWaulie]

Subbed.

glad to see people hunting for good organic amendment in Canada!

I was able to find most things in bulk locally for my recipe. Located in Alberta. If anyone has questions send me pm !

Heres my recipe

NPK MACRO MEALS
[]1 Cup Kelp (1-0-2)
[]1/2 Cup Bone (4-10-0)
[]1/2 Cup Fishbone (4-18-0)
[]1/2 Cup Neem (4-3-2)
[]1/2 Cup Insect Frass (3-1-3)
[]1/3 Cup Alfalfa (3-1-2)
[]1/3 Cup Soymeal (7-2-2)

MINERAL
[]2 Cup Granite Grit (0-0-3)
[]1 Cup Diatomaceous Earth
[]1 Cup Glacial Rock Dust (0-0-1)
[]1/8 Cup Basalt (0-0-1)
[]1/8 Cup Azomite

CALCIUM
[]1/2 Cup Gypsum
[]1/4 Cup Dolomite

OTHER
[]1 Cup Dehydrated Molasses

BASE
1 CF = 8 LOOSE FILLED GALLON

5 Gallon Recycled Soil Mix
(33% Peat, 33% Organic Matter, 33% Perlite)

+
1 Gallon EWC
1/4 Gallon BioChar
1/2 Gallon Guinea/Horse Manure
1/2 Gallon Vermiculite
1/2 Gallon Expanded Clay

 

[clearheaded]

I was thinking about alfafa I use it however I am wondering how much glyphosate is in it or any other sprays may be on the stuff. Also there is a bit of an smokey odor to it i wonder what they do to process it? havent found organic 25kg bags but imagine available somewhere.

 

[Pangea]

I was thinking about alfafa I use it however I am wondering how much glyphosate is in it or any other sprays may be on the stuff. Also there is a bit of an smokey odor to it i wonder what they do to process it? havent found organic 25kg bags but imagine available somewhere.

http://www.alfalfagreen.ca/

Most decent farm suppliers will have it or bring in bags or skids if requested.

 

[TychoMonolyth]

https://www.alfalfagreen.ca/

Most decent farm suppliers will have it or bring in bags or skids if requested.

The Alfalfa I see growing doesn't get sprayed. It's hay. There's no real point to it. For the amount you need, just stop by a field and chop it with garden shears and fill a large garden waste paper bag.

 

[Pangea]

The Alfalfa I see growing doesn't get sprayed. It's hay. There's no real point to it. For the amount you need, just stop by a field and chop it with garden shears and fill a large garden waste paper bag.

Perhaps the fields your watching dont get sprayed, but your advice and experience is far from the common case.

For California in 2012:
http://www.pesticideinfo.org/DS.jsp?sk=23001

Note the use of Glyphosate, Roundup ready alfalfa is a product and its use is not uncommon.

 

[PaulieWaulie]

I got 25 pounds for $20 from my farm store. TBO , Im all about organics and love the benifits and the living soil, but after throwing 1/3 cup of alfalfa into my soil mix full of worms and worm castings and compost, and letting the microbes break everything down for over a month, by the time my plants are growing in it, I highly doubt there is anything causing a negative effect and being transfered in any which way, most things including many chemicals break down naturally, now imagine a cubic foot of super alive soil versus 1/3 cup alfalfa meal.

P.S. this is all speculation, bottom line Im not worried.

 

[fatigues]

Black Swallow Living Soils. They are located in Brantford, Ontario.

They have just about everything. Rice hulls? Yes. Neem? Yes. Garanja cake? Yes, again. The list goes on and on.

If it sounds like a shopping list from ICMag's organics forum, that's because it is. He even sells Klakamas Coot's soil mix.

 

[TychoMonolyth]

Perhaps the fields your watching dont get sprayed, but your advice and experience is far from the common case.

For California in 2012:
https://www.pesticideinfo.org/DS.jsp?sk=23001

Note the use of Glyphosate, Roundup ready alfalfa is a product and its use is not uncommon.

Then I stand corrected. Maybe some places need it.

I haven't ever seen anything sprayed on Alfalfa. It isn't a cash crop as far as I know. It's only used for dairy cattle and some beef (too hot for horses), and farmers grow their own. The *only time I've seen Roundup used is prior to planting a fresh field. The field is sprayed to kill everything, then worked and planted.

I wouldn't put it past Monsanto convincing farmers that Roundup is needed on Alfalfa, Timothy, and everything else that comes out of the ground.

 

[Mikell]

Look up "dry down" or "brown down".

It's this fancy technique to field dry crops.

With herbicides.

 

[PARADOX]

^ Iv seen it used on the corn fields near the Okanagan . one day green and huge .. next day dead and dry

 

[PaulieWaulie]

Black Swallow Living Soils. They are located in Brantford, Ontario.

They have just about everything. Rice hulls? Yes. Neem? Yes. Garanja cake? Yes, again. The list goes on and on.

If it sounds like a shopping list from ICMag's organics forum, that's because it is. He even sells Klakamas Coot's soil mix.

There is a good ROI thread that has all canadian distributers for anything growing related. people should look that up for sure.

I was able to find everything locally for dirt cheap in bulk, other than insect frass and neem meal and fish hydrolosate. I found those from other places that were cheaper than blackswallow.

just my 2 cents

 

[TychoMonolyth]

^ Iv seen it used on the corn fields near the Okanagan . one day green and huge .. next day dead and dry

Around here they spray corn and soy once at about 3 weeks.
(see the yellow in the field?)

Later on if it gets bugs. Tractor for soy, chopper for corn. But I don't know what they spray at this point.

 

[Limeygreen]

Black swallow is a one stop shop, great products and service. Price is not bad, I prefer them personally because it's a one stop shop and good customer service, can you find products cheaper? Yes you can but I get consistent quality and things in one place. I think the bottom line is local to you and consistent quality, imo.

Btw, making the fish fertilizer from the unconventional farmers website will be even cheaper than you can buy it, especially if you have any local fish processors or fisheries around.

 

[clearheaded]

Ya if its not an organic field chances are its ripe with all kinds of shit which then gets passed to the ganja and concentrated in ur hash. So if can avoid it thats a much better thing.

Yes they spray "dessicants" on fields right before harvest which varies of crop. cotton i think they use Brass or some other steroid i think. But nasty stuff forsure designed to KILL the plant not super ideal healthy stuff.

anyway point is somthing to keep in mind about alfalfa and your inputs. As yes i get it locally in large cheap bags but doesnt mean its clean premium stuff and may cause more harm then good potentially and i never really saw a boost from adding my alfalfa infact may even caused yellowing and PM increase on squash and cucumbers. also teas from it the more i think back now seemed to slow things down or yellow hmmm.... put a bunch on small part of my grass expecting to be lush and green but that never happened either..

 

[fatigues]

Black swallow is a one stop shop, great products and service. Price is not bad, I prefer them personally because it's a one stop shop and good customer service, can you find products cheaper? Yes you can but I get consistent quality and things in one place. I think the bottom line is local to you and consistent quality, imo.

The one stop shopping experience for me is ideal, and the pre-mixed amended soils, while not cheap, are actually not that bad when you look at what amendments are in there and what a pain in the ass it is to source all of that from a large number of suppliers.

If someone tells you that they get "dirt" for their plants and it cost them $320, you may be inclined to say "woah, slow down".

But if you recognize that EWC and Compost to supplement for teas aside, that's all the ferts you will need to grow your 4 plants in 30 gallon bags, from seed to harvest, that's not that bad a price for a high quality organic product. A single 30 gallon smart pot can grow a lot of weed. And that's for four of em.

One of Black Swallow's clients has this growing in So Ontario in their Clakamas Coot mix. I am sure this vegged indoors for many months before it went outside; still, it's inspiring! There are cheaper sources if you want to do the work and the mixing -- and take the time to fetch and amend and assemble it all -- but the results are impressive.

 

[PaulieWaulie]

Here is what I picked up this year to make my mix. Enough to last me a lifetime, other than the blood and bone meal from home depot, but not using bloodmeal moving forward. Everything is local other than the ***'s

Also felt that rice hulls are a waste of money, even for a 50 LBS bag its $70 Locally, and it breaks down after a year so I would have to buy and mix in continuously. I got 440L of perlite for the same price.

Soil Amendments Price LIST

[x]$33 / Bone Meal / 4.7KG
[x]$22 / Blood Meal / 2.6 KG
[x]$42 / Dehydrated Molasses / 25 KG
[x]$120 / Kelp Meal / 50 LBS
[x]$25 / Glacial Rock Dust / 22.68 KG
[x]$72 / Perlite / 110LX4
[x]$19 / Azomite / 4.4 lbs
[x]$18 / Alfalfa / 20KG
[x]$60 / Mycorrhizae MYKOS EXTREME / 2.2 LBS***Amazon
[x]$31 / Oyster Shell / 25KG
[x]$20 / Gypsum / 10 KG
[x]$20 / Dolomite / 10 KG
[x]$20 / Basalt / 5 KG
[x]$84 / Neem Meal / 9KG***ReindeersNatural
[x]$63 / Insect Frass / 10 LBS***Boogie Brew
[x]$52 / Fishbone Meal / 10 KG
[x]$22 / Soybean Meal / 20 KG
[x]$30 / Alfafa Seed / 5KG
[x]$25 / Barley Seed / 50 LBS
[x]$54 / Diatomaceous Earth / 20 KG
[x]$47 / Flax Seed / 50 LBS
[x]$17 / Granite Grit / 25KG
[x]$50 / Fish Hydrosolate / 1G***Gardeners Pantry
[x]$20 / Humic/Fulvic Acids / 1 LBS***Gardeners Pantry

TOTAL COST $966

 

[Bjorn to farm.]

70% of Canada’s #1 soil can be seen from the CN Tower ........ that beautiful “dirt” needs very little or nothing to grow lush plants of virtually any type.

 

[Maple_Flail]

70% of Canada’s #1 soil can be seen from the CN Tower ........ that beautiful “dirt” needs very little or nothing to grow lush plants of virtually any type.

eh, only place you can see from the tower that has fertile dirt is the islands.

everything on the main land is muddy clay, covered by the concrete jungle, and polluted for decades. dig down deep enough to get the untouch stuff sure.. but thats 30-50ft down if not more.. subways system after all.

anything near the CN tower is not the best soil. I'm sure Niagara, PEI and the prairies would like to have a word with your statement.

 

[Bjorn to farm.]

To understand agronomy you need to understand the law of limiting factors. Liebigs Law.
If it makes you feel good, do it. But the plants don’t need your amendments.

 

[PaulieWaulie]

To understand agronomy you need to understand the law of limiting factors. Liebigs Law.
If it makes you feel good, do it. But the plants don’t need your amendments.

Sure, if you have good soil, then the amendments might not be necessary. But most people getting into organics are starting from scratch and growing indoor and investing a lot of time and money into what plants they do have. Not having rich soil and having the crops ruined is a waste and not fun. I don't think amendments can hurt your plants as long as its all semi balanced. So better safe than sorry. As I re use my soil and do multiple runs I will for sure do some side by sides of Re-Amended versus not amended soil and see the difference.

Many inputs have other benefits besides the 17 elements, so its just for NPK etc.

And yes it also makes me feel good. :yay: