- Opiated Thai Sticks: Myth or Truth? -

[musigny23]

I'm not going to try and post quotes to respond to as there are too many but I will say a few things.

Thank you Hammerhead for admitting being wrong about opiated sticks. That's a class move. Noted and appreciated.

Regarding whether cannabis grown in the north and away from the northeast was potentially used to make opiated sticks. No, just no. While the distance from Isaan does matter in terms of the practical possibility of connecting the opium and the cannabis generally, specifically there were grow syndicates that did do big grows elsewhere at times simply because they had a place available or wanted to find a spot where they had paid off the police or any number reasons. There is ZERO reason to conclude cannabis grown near poppy operations must have been used that way.

There are several reasons it didn't happen. I'll list them as succinctly as I can.

!. The stick producing culture was not an opium growing or using culture.
2. The two drugs simply aren't complimentary. The Thais were fully aware of this.
3. The attitudes and knowledge of western middle class drug users regarding drugs and their uses were completely different from the Thais. Stoners in college dorm rooms in the 70s might have thought it made sense that opium explained the effects of what they smoked but they had no idea what they were about on that. Pure stoner fancy. that's it.
4. As a business move to actually try and do what it would have taken to do it would have been crazy. Lots of effort, much more risk, no significant reward for it. The Thais are not stupid, they know how to do sensible business.
5. There is no proven simple effective reliable method to do it. Especially at scale and with consistent results. Despite all the pondering on vague methods that sound like they might work, the reality is it would be a nightmare and in the end anyone attempting it would end up with a whole lot of previously good cannabis completely ruined. This idea that you would grow it, harvest it, dry and cure it, arrive at a basically finished product AND then soak it in some kind of water solution and then dry it again and it would still be great smoke only better is simply crazy. Any type of process like that would totally ruin it. PERIOD. How would it get dried a second time and not have terrible mold problems? That would be impossible to avoid or even control. Those hardworking farmers were way to smart to do such a dumb thing. It would have added a huge amount of complexity, risk, and time also. They would have needed to arrange and acquire the opium or water or whatever and have it where it was needed at just the right time along with a reliable simple process that village farmers would be willing to do on top of what they already did.
6. In the destination countries busted product would have been tested at times and if opiates were found the authorities would have freaked out. It would no longer be a rumor but well documented in government reports, court cases and news stories. Dealers who got busted would have charged with opiate crimes. It would have been an ongoing highly publicized thing. There would have been college kids showing up at hospital emergency rooms, stoners puking and nodding out at concerts. Problems with stick smokers becoming opiate addicts. NONE of that happened from smoking Thai sticks.

I was around and saw and smoked and sold plenty of Thai sticks. The myth existed then. I heard it many times. We often joked about it. We knew it wasn't true even back then. It's incredible that the myth still lives. It's impossible to kill I guess.

 

[mexcurandero420]

 

[Hammerhead]

Being able to perform critical thinking comes into play, As a kid, none of us had that ability. It def had something other than weed. As kids what we get told more often than not we believe. For me, not much else was going on in the '70s but getting high and chasing leg. Being able to admit we are wrong=Welcome to being a MAN!!.

 

[Chi13]

Just want to add, where I grew up in Australia, heroin use was very much frowned upon in the mid to late 70s. In fact once someone became a junky they pretty much disappeared from your social circle, sometimes permanently disappeared sadly. Lots of people were dying. The flipside of this was that those that sold just cannabis were somewhat seen as counter culture heroes. Whereas those that sold "harder drugs" were not seen in the same light.

I remember laced cannabis as something to be feared. We hoped we wouldn't get the opium dipped sticks in case we got addicted. The point I am making is that there really wasn't any marketing advantage to opium dipped sticks anyway, at least when I first started.

Interesting thread none the less and great to see the old pics.

 

[acespicoli]

Burma

Just want to add, where I grew up in Australia, heroin use was very much frowned upon in the late 70s. In fact once someone became a junky they pretty much disappeared from your social circle, sometimes permanently disappeared sadly. The flipside of this was that those that sold just cannabis were somewhat seen as counter culture heroes. Whereas those that sold "harder drugs" were not seen in the same light.

I remember laced cannabis as something to be feared. We hoped we wouldn't get the opium dipped sticks in case we got addicted. The point I am making is that there really wasn't any marketing advantage to opium dipped sticks anyway, at least when I first started.

Interesting thread none the less and great to see the old pics.

same thing in USA Chi13 totally agree, still frowned on well said


ganja & opium shop thanks for sharing the vintage pictures very interesting

 

[herbgreen]

must have been that heavy choco thai

They are darker and are no doubt a heavy dreamy smoke but people would have been dope sick when that weed dried up Did that happen?

my vote is for the choco thai stick

people never smoked heavy shit ...Its part Labrador x maui wowie


.

 

[acespicoli]

...

 

[Gaussamer]

The "myth" is that during the Vietnam war those sympathetic to either US and VC would dip Thai sticks (from Thailand) in opiate syrup. One group did it to "take the fight out of American soldiers", the other because many soldiers prefered heroin to cannabis in the first place and would sell it to them.

Whether it's true or not I have no idea, unless you were there and knowingly smoked it you don't know either. Most of those landraces have very incense smells a lot like opium, which could be the grain of truth if it's a myth. I know some Nam vets that blazed it and they don't know, couldn't tell, but it was the "strongest shit ever". I've had thai sticks a few times, had Vietnamese landraces a few as well, never impressed with any of it to be honest. Who knows what happened.

 

[Hammerhead]

Really good weed was not common back then here in the states. It was def there but rare. We were all kids not use to that kind of high. Here in the states people added shit all the time and did not tell people. This was common practice to get people hooked. Smokable heroin was also put in weed for those that could not or didn't like to inject it. This was more common in San Francisco(Haight and Ashbury). Lots of junkies in that area in '70s. Thailand farmers did not add these drugs before importing. A few that were there have stated as much in this thread. Did some add it that were stationed there probably. Lots of troops came home addicted.

 

[Thule]

must have been that heavy choco thai

They are darker and are no doubt a heavy dreamy smoke but people would have been dope sick when that weed dried up Did that happen?

my vote is for the choco thai stick

people never smoked heavy shit ...Its part Labrador x maui wowie


.

There's been some talk that choc Thai might have actually been Mexican. The Aussies don't know what it is, and there's nothing like that in Thailand today.

 

[herbgreen]

There's been some talk that choc Thai might have actually been Mexican. The Aussies don't know what it is, and there's nothing like that in Thailand today.

I think it might of got co-op by mexicans and grown because its unique potency etc

That drawoh coco thai reminds me of a sort of mexican regs but with something extra.... its dream the day away laugh your ass off weed but.It does have that vibe Like mid 80s import

 

[herbgreen]

Really good weed was not common back then here in the states. It was def there but rare. We were all kids not use to that kind of high. Here in the states people added shit all the time and did not tell people. This was common practice to get people hooked. Smokable heroin was also put in weed for those that could not or didn't like to inject it. This was more common in San Francisco(Haight and Ashbury). Lots of junkies in that area in '70s. Thailand farmers did not add these drugs before importing. A few that were there have stated as much in this thread. Did some add it that were stationed there probably. Lots of troops came home addicted.

They got dopesick they were snorting china white....the weed was strong on its own and like nothing theve seen

Heroin was plentiful due to AirAmerica etc etc And it was a campaign by nixon to shut down the haight flood the place with hard drugs and bad vibes

 

[Hammerhead]

They got dopesick they were snorting china white....the weed was strong on its own and like nothing theve seen

Heroin was plentiful due to AirAmerica etc etc And it was a campaign by nixon to shut down the haight flood the place with hard drugs and bad vibes

There's a lot of info about troops smoking Heroin with weed at that time. In several countries, especially in Africa, the dominant method of heroin intake is smoking a joint of cannabis-laced with heroin.

In 1970 alone there were 1,146 arrests for hard drugs, and by 1971 the number of arrests increased to 7,026. The government blamed marijuana consumption for the expansion of heroin addicts. The U.S government had to discharge between 1,000 and 2,000 heroin addicts per month. Marijuana use in the United States was included in the same category as heroin and other narcotics which led to the large push of banning drugs in Vietnam.
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/Cascade/index.html?appid=b59fef8b2af345d28553d58509b365a2

Here they show one of our guys smoking weed with heroin during Vietnam war. .

 

[romanoweed]

Most of those landraces have very incense smells a lot like opium, which could be the grain of truth if it's a myth. I know some Nam vets that blazed it and they don't know, couldn't tell, but it was the "strongest shit ever". I've had thai sticks a few times, had Vietnamese landraces a few as well, never impressed with any of it to be honest.

heard it too! Peace

 

[herbgreen]

There's a lot of info about troops smoking Heroin with weed at that time. In several countries, especially in Africa, the dominant method of heroin intake is smoking a joint of cannabis-laced with heroin.

In 1970 alone there were 1,146 arrests for hard drugs, and by 1971 the number of arrests increased to 7,026. The government blamed marijuana consumption for the expansion of heroin addicts. The U.S government had to discharge between 1,000 and 2,000 heroin addicts per month. Marijuana use in the United States was included in the same category as heroin and other narcotics which led to the large push of banning drugs in Vietnam.
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/Cascade/...53d58509b365a2

Here they show one of our guys smoking weed with heroin during Vietnam war. .
filedata/fetch?id=17810057&d=1616273771

I agree

the thing was that heroin was too potent and smoked or sniffed was only way to probably use it without an overdose

Amazing how the govt can bring in tons of coke and heroin and the still take the time to track down a stash of herbs and make federal case out of it....

 

[mexcurandero420]

 

[Donald Mallard]

good informative clip mex ,
seems its all down to management , and the poor job of it governments do ,
its a shame that after applauding a democratic government coming in that the army has taken over again,
i guess its going to take a while for things to return what they could be ...

its plain to see the royal project in northern thailand that suppressed the opium growing and allowed people to make money other ways,
was definitely a step in the right direction ......

 

[mexcurandero420]

Well that the UN tries to convince the locals to change their crop into coffee growing instead of opium poppy will in the end be a failure i'm afraid.In Afghanistan they tried the farmers to grow saffron and in the end that ended up in growing opium poppies again.

Was reading a bit in the book Thai Stick and they mentioned that the weed was grown in Nakhon Phanom at the Laos border because the conditions were very good.

By the early 1970s, the foreign demand for ganja had produced a boom in Isan, the poorest region of Thailand. Although it is in Nakhon Phanom Province, Thailand, the region’s economic and social ties are closer to Laos. North of Udorn on the banks of the Mekong, Isan is a plateau the size of New England that floods during monsoon season and is arid and dusty in the dry season. Although rice fields are hard to irrigate and do not yield much, marijuana thrives thanks to the Mekong River, whose tributaries replenish the region with rich, silty soil. “This area [Nakhon Phanom] everyone have water, but the climate and the soil somehow make this area very good. The sun very good, very nice, and the night time very
cold,” said one Thai who began growing there in 1966. “If you grow same plant, same seed another place, have different taste.”

 

[Donald Mallard]

other than as seedlings and very young plants , having been planted towards the end of the monsoon ,
the plants would never see any rain ,
no coastal drizzle can reach that area , its perfect for cannabis ,
which seems to really enjoy the cool nights and nice warm days ...

 

[mexcurandero420]

Yep perhaps its coming back.Got here another vid about the triangle opium.