One Leaf Wonder

[MaryUWannaPixie]

I took some clones from some flowering plants. They rooted just fine but now they are only kicking out one leaf from the top. I was told since they were taken from flowering plants I should use 24 hours a day of light. Any clue why these are doing this?

 

[tree&leaf]

I took some clones from some flowering plants.
Any clue why these are doing this?

Because you took them from flowering plants!

In flowering, the leaf phyllotaxy changes to one leaf, have you not noticed his at the top of colas? You'll have to wait till they revert fully back into vegetative growth for the leaf phyllotaxy to return to normal.

I just don't understand why people insist on taking clones from flowering plants, it diminishes the genetic integrity of the plant to force it back into vegetative growth and confuses the hell out of it.

Take your clones in vegetative growth!

 

[acidfire]

Yes, you will need to reveg them for atleast a few weeks under 24/0.

 

[MaryUWannaPixie]

Thankies to both of you!!!

T&L,

They were taken in flower because I needed all the plants to fill my room and there wasn't much veg time on them. So there wasn't enough to take clones from. I will be taking from a mother plant now that I've selected a pheno or 2 for mothers.

 

[funk_buddha]

It will take them a few days to get themselves straightened out.

Sometimes clones give you problems for their first week or so of life but if they have rooted you're mostly out of the woods.

Plants always act a little weird when they get revegged, some take longer and need lots of convincing some switch back and forth like its nothing.

Good luck! just treat them normally and they'll work themselves out.

 

[tree&leaf]

They were taken in flower because I needed all the plants to fill my room and there wasn't much veg time on them. So there wasn't enough to take clones from. I will be taking from a mother plant now that I've selected a pheno or 2 for mothers.

People usually have a reason for doing something they shouldn't do - normally it's just plain laziness. Taking clones from plants in flowering and forcing it to reveg and then become a mother weakens and confuses it. That re-vegged clone will never be as good or as strong as the original plant it came from.

Take a clone from each plant before you put it into flowering and label them clearly. If you get any males, you can throw those clones away. Once you've harvested the remaining girls and had a chance to sample the smoke from each - you will then know which of those clones you want to make into a mother, and it will retain the full genetic integrity of the mother plant. You can either keep the rest or chuck them away.

Forcing plants into reveg from flowering weakens and confuses them and as I'm sure you know plants under stress can do strange things.

 

[Endo]

People usually have a reason for doing something they shouldn't do - normally it's just plain laziness. Taking clones from plants in flowering and forcing it to reveg and then become a mother weakens and confuses it. That re-vegged clone will never be as good or as strong as the original plant it came from.

Take a clone from each plant before you put it into flowering and label them clearly. If you get any males, you can throw those clones away. Once you've harvested the remaining girls and had a chance to sample the smoke from each - you will then know which of those clones you want to make into a mother, and it will retain the full genetic integrity of the mother plant. You can either keep the rest or chuck them away.

Forcing plants into reveg from flowering weakens and confuses them and as I'm sure you know plants under stress can do strange things.

can you explain how it genetically alters the plant? are you basing this on research you have done or just opinion and what you have heard, i have read about and seen many examples of revegged plants that have been said to actually be BETTER and more branchy than the original plants, i have also revegged and taken clones in flower with no ill effects at all. im just not understanding how it changed the genetics. also you mentioned about them throwing out single leafs in flower,i did some trimming yesterday, and there wass quite a few 5 bladed leafs sticking out of my buds, much smaller than real fan leaves but none the less there was still 5 bladed leafs. so im not sure i understand where you are coming from with this.

 

[ItsGrowTime]

can you explain how it genetically alters the plant? are you basing this on research you have done or just opinion and what you have heard, i have read about and seen many examples of revegged plants that have been said to actually be BETTER and more branchy than the original plants, i have also revegged and taken clones in flower with no ill effects at all. im just not understanding how it changed the genetics.

I was going to post the same thing. The immediate clone in question will grow differently but the genetics of the plant isn't affected. Another clone could be taken after it has revegged and that clone will be exactly like the original mother.

 

[Endo]

ive done this quite a few times with no ill effects, i just wonder why people seem to think it changes genetic make up. people say that with clones in general and there are strains floating around since the early 90s so these strains are genetically inferior? i think not. i think the whole theory of genetic degradation is a load of shit. and if its true, on a molecular level the change would be so incredibly small that we as humans without expensive research equip would not be able to tell. however im pretty sure that a cut from a plant is still the same plant, people do this all the time with tomatoes peppers flowers, all kinds of stuff. i dont see why cannibus would be any diffrent. from the little i know about genetics, to change them in an organism you have to introduce something new or use radiation, but you activly have to do something, by taking a cut from a plant i dont think is enough to cause genetic variation, nor would reverting a plant back to a vegitative state, theres lots of plants that go from flower to veg state and back to flower again. i just dont get the diffrence. maybe im just uninformed.


also, its not always about being lazy, some people have certain requirments and a certain amt of space, i have had to make due with what i have and constantly change things around, im by no means lazy about it. sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. sometimes, i dont wanna waste the soil/room, to find out if something is a male or not. just toss it into flower determine sex and take a clone off one of the lower branches, that way, no wasted time. theres many ways of doing things, just because you think it should be done one way does not make someone elses way lazy. one thing i learned from my dad was work smarter not harder, theres a diff between that and being lazy.

 

[MaryUWannaPixie]

That re-vegged clone will never be as good or as strong as the original plant it came from.

While I'm sure taking clones during flowering is more stressful then cloning itself. I do not buy the therory that the plant will be weaker then the orginal. After all the DNA isn't changed. So if the stressed plant is nursed back to health it will be a gentic duplicate of the plant that it was taken from.

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

if they have roots the light is too far or not strong enough.

 

[Endo]

While I'm sure taking clones during flowering is more stressful then cloning itself. I do not buy the therory that the plant will be weaker then the orginal. After all the DNA isn't changed. So if the stressed plant is nursed back to health it will be a gentic duplicate of the plant that it was taken from.

right on, your plant will be fine soon, it can take anywhere from a week to a few weeks to start getting regular leafs again, i just took some clones off a female nlxbb my dad was growing, 2 weeks into flower. took like almost 4 weeks b4 i started getting good leaves again. gonna pop her into flower this week probly, i dont forsee there being any problems in flower either.
good luck with your plants.
Endo

 

[tree&leaf]

I do not buy the therory that the plant will be weaker then the orginal. After all the DNA isn't changed. So if the stressed plant is nursed back to health it will be a gentic duplicate of the plant that it was taken from.

You can buy whatever you like, just consider the following -

Are hermaphrodites as genetically stable as the plants they came from? Why do some plants turn into hermaphrodites when others do not?

If you want to risk your mother plant producing a generation of hermaphrodites, that's up to you.

 

[Endo]

theres 2 types of hermis genetic hermies, which will turn hermi no matter what you do to it, because its in its genetics your not going to CHANGE that no matter what you do, then there is stress hermies which is a genetic RESPONSE to stress, and trying to preserve itself, however if you take clones or make seeds from a stressed hermi, the seeds/ clones will not have the GENETIC hermi trait.and b4 you go there, seeds made from a stressed female will produce mostly female seeds because there is no male chromosome in a female plant, so pollenating a female plant with female pollen will result in genetics carrying over the fem genes. this is from what i have read, if im wrong about any of this someone please chime in and correct me, i would hate to spread bad info.

 

[wygram]

Hermaphroditic genetic traits have to be in the plant for it to react badly to cloning during flowering. The expression of these traits is due to disturbed environment, but the fault lies in the poor genetics.

I disagree with hermaphrodites not passing on their traits to offspring. The seeds from a hermi will have intersexed genetics. Pollination of a female by a female which shows male parts will make mostly female seeds, however, the intersexed genes which caused the female to throw male flowers are still there. A "true female," one with no intersexed genes, will not hermi, ever.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=60691

 

[Endo]

genetic hermies yes, would pass it on but my understanding is that stress hermies will not, cuase if it did, no one would force a male for that reason. i dunno, just my 2 pennies. dont wanna pull this tread off track.

 

[MaryUWannaPixie]

Well if we are gonna talk hermies I will have to say it's my belief that ALL cannabis will hermie. That is embedded into it's DNA. I know this old timer who has been growing since the 60's and he's said that IF the plant is allowed to sit long enough it will hermie if not already seeded. It's a continue the cycle thing. However we harvest before that happens so stress is what brings it out in most cases and yes that trait is passed on. Take the same plant and put it in a stress free enviroment and it will not hermie. So the trait passed on from clone to clone or plant to seed is on how well it handles stress.

 

[tree&leaf]

Well if we are gonna talk hermies I will have to say it's my belief that ALL cannabis will hermie. That is embedded into it's DNA. I know this old timer who has been growing since the 60's and he's said that IF the plant is allowed to sit long enough it will hermie if not already seeded.

Well that's not my understanding of it. There are two ways hermaphrodites are produced, firstly through a genetic disposition to it and secondly through stress. What you describe above is a direct result of stress. As you rightly point out, the plant is desperate to be pollinated and in that desperation produces a male flower. This is caused by stress.

Feminised seeds are produced from self pollinated female plants, but these plants do NOT produce male flowers through stress, they're produced by a hormone chemical. This is the reason why feminised seeds are so expensive - because the breeder has to find one that's resistent to stress induced hermpaophroditism and that's a time consuming laborious process. Self pollinated female plants produced by stress ARE predisposed to hermaphroditism, so it wouldn't be wise to produce a generation of feminised seeds from one would it?

Take the same plant and put it in a stress free enviroment and it will not hermie.

Or it shouldn't, but, you've just imposed stress on your clone by re-vegging it from flowering haven't you, how do you know how much stress that plant can take before it starts reversing sex or producing hermaphroditic traits? You won't know until you flower it again. And its clones will retain those traits and that's what I refer to when I say it diminishes the genetic integrity of the plant.

What you're really describing above is the plants phenotypical expression of its genetics. If you were to take two clones from the same mother and plant one in your flowering room and one back in the land of its origin at the end of its flowering period you would have two totally different looking plants, despite the fact that they came from the same plant and carry identical genetics. Stress induced hermaphroditism works in exactly the same way in its interaction with the environment, the more stress you expose a plant to, the more likely it is to display its hermaphroditic tendencies.

Whichever way you look at it, it's best to take clones in veg than risk imposing additional stress on plants that get enough stress as it is growing in artificial environments with incorrect light spectrum, insufficient light, no UVB, varying amounts of moisture and nutrient stress and so on.

You wouldn't deliberately open the door to your flowering cabinet during its dark period would you? So why take clones in flowering, which is effectively doing the same thing?

 

[MaryUWannaPixie]

Well that's not my understanding of it. There are two ways hermaphrodites are produced, firstly through a genetic disposition to it and secondly through stress. What you describe above is a direct result of stress. As you rightly point out, the plant is desperate to be pollinated and in that desperation produces a male flower. This is caused by stress.

Stress isn't gene therapy so it can not change the genetic disposition of the plant. Therefore if a plant either has it in it's DNA or it doesn't. Like I stated before it is my belief that it is in ALL cannabis plants.

Feminised seeds are produced from self pollinated female plants, but these plants do NOT produce male flowers through stress, they're produced by a hormone chemical. This is the reason why feminised seeds are so expensive - because the breeder has to find one that's resistent to stress induced hermpaophroditism and that's a time consuming laborious process. Self pollinated female plants produced by stress ARE predisposed to hermaphroditism, so it wouldn't be wise to produce a generation of feminised seeds from one would it?

So what is it you think this hormone chemical does? Do you think it's gene therapy and changes the DNA? I don't think so. Let's for a minute talk about hormone therapy in transgender humans. Hormones are used to control of all things body hair. One hormone will trigger growth and one surpresses it. Either way the gene and hair folicals for hair are there and the hormones do not change things on a genitic level. Also if you get a chance as a Transsexual if hormaone therapy is stressful and I think you will get an answer that doesn't match your reponce that it does not stress the plant!

So it very possible that the hormones trigger the gentic trait that is already embedded into it's DNA and since this homone works on any plant I think my therory on Hermies is a lot more plauseable then yours.

 

[ItsGrowTime]

All this discussion is cool and all but I think the main point is that revegging a plant isn't a stressor that would cause a plant to herm, genetically or otherwise. Herms only happen when a plant is budding anyway, so a clone taken in flower before strong budding and revegged will not herm. Its the same reason that you can have light leaks during veg and not end up with herms. Its just not something the plant is concerned with at that stage of growth.