One Leaf Wonder

[MaryUWannaPixie]

lol I knew I forgot something. Thanks for bringing that point up too.

 

[tree&leaf]

Stress isn't gene therapy so it can not change the genetic disposition of the plant.

And I suppose you reject the theory of evolution as well? Because that flies in the face of everything you're saying here. Canna is a very adaptable plant and will adapt and alter its genetics over time to its environment to ensure the plants survival. Canna has been doing this for far longer than most of us have been alive.

So what is it you think this hormone chemical does? Do you think it's gene therapy and changes the DNA? I don't think so.

The hormone merely forces the plant to produce a male flower, which is not produced by stress and therefore stress influenced hermaphroditism would not be in the genetics of the seeds.

Let's for a minute talk about hormone therapy in transgender humans. Hormones are used to control of all things body hair. One hormone will trigger growth and one surpresses it. Either way the gene and hair folicals for hair are there and the hormones do not change things on a genitic level.

I never suggested the hormone changes anything at a genetic level, I merely stated that the male flower was produced by a hormone, because it cannot be produced by stress, for if it was the hermaphroditic gene would be passed down to its seeds, which isn't a desirable trait is it?

Your the one who seems to think the hormone changes things at a genetic level.

Also if you get a chance as a Transsexual if hormaone therapy is stressful and I think you will get an answer that doesn't match your reponce that it does not stress the plant!

I'm not really sure what you're saying here. As far as I'm aware, Transexuals are individuals who consider themselves trapped in the body of the oppostite sex. This is therefore operating at a psychological level. The altering of the body to resemble what the mind thinks it should be has nothing to do with what we are discussing here.

So it very possible that the hormones trigger the gentic trait that is already embedded into it's DNA and since this homone works on any plant I think my therory on Hermies is a lot more plauseable then yours.

It's certainly a 'convenient' explanation, but it still does not explain why some plants are very susceptible to producing male flowers when stressed to varying degress and others do not regardless of how much stress they're put under. This would not happen if as you claim all plants carry a genetic disposition towards hermaphroditism.

And the reason is, because in my opinion they do not.

We'll simply have to agree to differ, you keep your opinions and I'll keep mine, because you haven't convinced me I'm afraid.

 

[tree&leaf]

but I think the main point is that revegging a plant isn't a stressor that would cause a plant to herm, genetically or otherwise.

In your opinion (which you're perfectly entitled to) but not in mine.

Herms only happen when a plant is budding anyway, so a clone taken in flower before strong budding and revegged will not herm.

Don't you mean, you can only SEE hermaphrodites when the plant is ins flower? How do you know how many of those plants reversed their sex fully or partially in vegetative growth? Plants can change their sex fully or partially at any time between germination and flowering and you'd have no idea whatsoever which of them are female or male.

Please read Robert Connell Clarkes "Marijuana Botany" for a fuller explanation of this.

Its the same reason that you can have light leaks during veg and not end up with herms. Its just not something the plant is concerned with at that stage of growth.

Interesting reasoning. The only reason you don't get hermaphrodites in vegetative growth is because you have no way of knowing what sex they are. That does not mean, that stress in vegetative growth does not produce hermpahrodites, you just don't see it until you flower them and like everyone else, stand back in amazement and claim you've done nothing as a grower to cause it!

 

[Guest]

reveging is a waste of time for me. I doubt It hurts. I doubt it makes it better. Just takes longer.

 

[ItsGrowTime]

Don't you mean, you can only SEE hermaphrodites when the plant is ins flower? How do you know how many of those plants reversed their sex fully or partially in vegetative growth? Plants can change their sex fully or partially at any time between germination and flowering and you'd have no idea whatsoever which of them are female or male.

You are speaking about things that no one can know so how does one prove a negative? Your statement is no less opinion than mine was. And mine was based on revegging numerous plants of different strains in various stages of growth and *never* having a plant herm or change sex as a result. Is your opinion based on your experience or just something you read in a book? Please remember that the original topic of this thread was about taking clones during flower. If ANYONE here can vouch for having a female clone turn out fully male or any resultant clones of later generations being male for ANY reason, especially revegging, then I will eat my laptop.

Please read Robert Connell Clarkes "Marijuana Botany" for a fuller explanation of this.
Interesting reasoning. The only reason you don't get hermaphrodites in vegetative growth is because you have no way of knowing what sex they are. That does not mean, that stress in vegetative growth does not produce hermpahrodites, you just don't see it until you flower them and like everyone else, stand back in amazement and claim you've done nothing as a grower to cause it!

Ooops, guess you just answered the book question. You are dealing in pure hypotheticals because *no one* has determined at what point a plant determines its sex. Is it from seed? Or do environmental factors during veg play a role? No one knows for sure other than anecdotal evidence that could be in favor of either. Please speak based on your experiences if you intend to argue points with growers that do have experience with the subject matter. What are your experiences with herms and/or revegging to back up your assertions that revegging is indeed a stressor?

 

[tree&leaf]

You are dealing in pure hypotheticals because *no one* has determined at what point a plant determines its sex. Is it from seed? Or do environmental factors during veg play a role? No one knows for sure other than anecdotal evidence that could be in favor of either. Please speak based on your experiences if you intend to argue points with growers that do have experience with the subject matter. What are your experiences with herms and/or revegging to back up your assertions that revegging is indeed a stressor?

The usual belligerence when someone comes along with an alternative viewpoint to your own. You'll have to forgive me if I prefer the extensive research conducted by Clarke and others, combined with my own experience of the subject to your own.

Simply agree to differ and move on, I've given my reasonings for why I hold my opinion, and nothing you can say will make me want to change my mind.

You keep your opinion, I'll keep mine.

 

[bongorilla]

reveging is a waste of time for me. I doubt It hurts. I doubt it makes it better. Just takes longer.

I agree with that right there...I took some clones at the 2nd week of flower once and its not something i will do again...I had the single leaf blade (wich is a mutation) and it took a good 6 weeks of vegitative growth before the mutated clones came back to normal looking 5-7 bladed leaves..I flowered them again and I was'nt quite sure it was as good so I dropped the strain..

There are a lot of debates about genetic breakdown and many good points on each side..I've found that yes there can be genetic breakdown that is reversable but takes too much time...yeah I think any strain can come back once grown out to optimal health and vigour and again thats a time thing...maybe its not so much genetic breakdown as it is the condition of the plant when it is cloned and some species are a lot more resilient than others and will snap back a lot faster than others..BTW nice avatar Mary...

 

[accessndx]

What's your take on "sexing" and re-veging? I don't have too much space to work with right now. I have 9 plants that I'd ideally like to take clones of, start the rooting process and while that's occurring....sex the plants the cuttings came from. This way no re-vegging.
Instead, with the paucity of space I have, I've taken the 9 plants and put them in with my flowering gals until I see sex. Then I'm going to re-veg them and take clones of the gals I find.

As I specified, I would ideally like to do things the best way possible....but space makes that difficult. Now it's obviously going to take longer...but I've heard people say that re-vegging does create hermaphroditic traits...

 

[Wunderkind]

This happened to me as well. I didn't really even wait for it to fully revert back though. After a couple weeks of vegging I decided to flower it. It grew like a bush, multiple top branches, and all leaves were singles except for the tops.