On my way: 6kw Lavender/Afgooey/Romulan

[True Blue]

hello 20K

well what a grow!~

Just wanna say thanks for taking the time and effort in explaining all about your addatives and how you take them to town on your ladies..

sure made me have a good think about a phew things...ever tried super thrive? im currently running it along with cannazyme with good results (veg),with the whole Cal-mag thing, i run RO and havent seen too many problems without running it, what are some common symptoms?

went and got some silica the other day (dutch master 0:0:16) so ill be keen too see them babies grow large! and im with the co2 burner,for a room that big a bottle will allways not goo far enough..they just need a bit of room cause they do put out alot of heat...seen a phew guys suspend them from the ceiling if space is tight which also gives good clearance for the heat.

thanks again....


keep em green!@

 

[20kw dreams]

Some common symptoms of running RO? Hell if I know. My PPM/EC has always been so high, that I just have used RO water. I just like using clean water really. If I were a proper nursery(or larger grower), I would have a full analysis done on my water, but I'm not. My wife was all for using RO water, because she is one of those people who is paranoid about all the nasty shit in food and water, not that I can blame her.

Do you mean not using Cal-mag? Then you would get Cal-Mag deficiencies. Necrotic spots NEAR the edges of the leaves, not the edge is a Cal def. Mg is the yellowing between the viens.

If you mean what happens when you use too much cal-mag, like in the case of stronger then it should be Cal-mag, then you will get a lockout, which can be as simple as a K deficiency, or you could just burn your roots, which would be a mess of lockouts. Lockouts are much more complicated then your standard problem and can be harder to identify, because they fuck up your entire root systoms ability to absorb various nutrients, not justthe ones which they are generally in competition with (search "cation anion soilless media" and you should find more info)

Yeah, superthrive was on that list up there actually, but I took it off because it was more of an, "every old school grower uses it" type thing. I figure I am giving them enough vitamins and horomones with all the other additives I am using. Besides that, it stretches your plants out in flower, and algea love it.

Watch that Silica if you are running in coco with a 0-0-16. I think the best bet to using SiK4 in coco is to cut out the PK 13/14, then find a straight P source, then use amounts equal to a PK 13/14, but with the Si as well. Does that sound right?

You know, I had 2 burners about 2 months ago. I had the biggest one CAP makes, and the little Gen-6. I sold them off and bought a tank, because I was going to be running a sealed room, AC and all. I have fought the heat battle with burners and it's really just a big fat waste of energy (which of course is the limiting factor to sustainability) Well, I decided the AC was too fuckin loud. So, now I have a tank, and I'm not buying a burner, because I'll switch back to sealed room when the next grow gets going. Maybe then I'l buy a burner for this room, then move my tank to the other room. For now, I'll just spend the $200/grow for the CO2. It's well worth it I'm, sure

What's funny though, is my room is running 1000+ ppm with no CO2 tank. Is that wierd, or what? I guess it's normal for my area. Being in a basin of a urban area, next to the ocean.

 

[gaiusmarius]

how high are you running the co2 ppm?

 

[20kw dreams]

1500 lights on, off in dark cycle

 

[somoz]

Haha, hey buddy. I feel you on many points here. I too as well loath the hydroton, ever spill a 50lb bag all over wood floor. Have fun. Lotso cussing when that happenned.......

But one of the upsides of the droton is that unlike coco and soil i can use it for up to 10 runs and don't have to worry about haulin trash bags out the door but it definately does suck for the bare feet! That shniz hurts man.

I run an almost identical setup for my feedlines but water multiple times with the droton but i'm looking to get into some coco in the immediate future so wanted to ask.

@ the burners i've heard they increase the temp significantly, but i've only run tanks so don't know first hand but it would make sense. Well, thanks for answerin the q's with such detail dood and lookin forward to seein your lab take off!

Grow hard
moz

 

[gaiusmarius]

Hi 20kw dude

well you can reuse the coco too man, at least 2 but easily 4 times. i have been reusing my slabs with great success. it's a great waste not to reuse the coco, maybe not 10 times, but 3 or 4 times should be easy. i do it and i even recycle my nutrient solution.

 

[JustATry]

20k, what's up man!?! Long time no talk heh...

Interesting you are going with coco. I am actually setting up a couple new grows and debating coco versus TAG. Got 1.3 off of my TAG setup last grow - best yet for me! Not really ecomonical for remote grows though (noisy and if mister pops out you can drain your rez in a couple hours).

How come you didn't do the coco slabs? I was pricing slabs at $11 each, but I need 170 slabs! Seems a bit high for me. Maybe I will end up doing some bails of coco instead.

Back to reading...

JAT

 

[Guest]

Will nice to see one of yours grows all the way soon i was so teased when i didn'y get to see finished ones of your last ones. Slips

 

[20kw dreams]

I had plenty of finished grows on OG. I lost my camera a while back half way through that last tree grow I was doin. Just recently picked up a new one. Hopefully it don't get lost or wet again.

What's up JAT! Nice to see one of the old aeroheads on the Cocopages. 1.3! Holy SHIT! Was that with the HDF? After the Pythium in the NFT run(2 x), I am done with mediumless grows(at least for now. Too much of a PITA. I don't have to worry about shit clogging anymore, water temperatures, crazy LOUD ASS high pressured pumps running 1 on/5 off, etc. Not that I won't be going back there at some point in time, but I'll wait until I am at a permanent commercial space or something. Right now I'm in too tight of a spot to be fucking around. That Pythium killed me.

Anyways, if you are getting 1.3, then by all means stick with it. If I were in your shoes, I would put the money into commercial grade misters and filters. Run salt and highly filtered additives(no Liquid Karma)Build your tubs to suit out of quality materials, and take time designing a setup which is easy to maintain, such as one giant aero tub with hinged lids for easy access. Hell, just build a tile aero chambers 3'tall x 4' wide x 20' long or whatever. Design in a sump in for the volume pump. I think you'll more then compernsate for the added expense.

Coco seems to be much better performing then any other medium based, but with all the benefits of stealth and ease. As far as quality, I've always prefered soil really, but from everything the G-dog over here says, the quality can rival soil. Stick around and we'll see.

Oh, yeah, I didn't go with the slabs only due to cost. They would have been more..I forget how much more, but more, and I was cutting corners left and right to make sure everything would go period. What's slabs were you refering too? I think they were more then that over here. I wouldn't fuck with bails unless you are ready for alot of work. 170 slabs is alot of coco bud. I don't think you want to pot that many pots really.

Look into Flood and draining Coco slabs too. If you can get a rez big enough to fill the trays deep enough to cover the slabs completely, I think it would be the ultimate in an efficient, no worries, top yielding grow. Flood and drain is starting to get a bad wrap, but I have reasearched the shit, and there are 3 main reasons it does so:

!!!EVERYBODY READ THIS!! THIS IS KEY!!!

1) Retail stores do not get to sell you nearly as much plumbing. The smaller lines and fittings not only cost more from the get go, but are the lines which get clogged up and need to be replaced.

2) If you cannot fill to the top of your medium, then salts will easily accumulate, organic or not(when organics are broken down, they do leave salt like residues)

3) It is a giant waste of expensive nutrients and water in run to waste systems.

Because flood and drain has no small lines and fittings to clog up, you can also run any organic you want, and you won't have to worry about clogging. You would have to agitate the rez with a second pump, but you only need to feed a few times a day, so no worries about the water heating up.

I know I got way off topic, but I think as far as organic hydroponics are concerned, flood and drain coco slabs would be the perfect setup.

Aero is the ultimate in speed of growth and yields, but the maintenance is a full time job in itself, even if you are using salt ferts.

 

[Guest]

I know i used to see your pics on og, thats how bad i miss them gives me insperation.

 

[True Blue]

Hi gauis

20K lol i meant common symptoms of not using cal mag... oh yeah of course (stoner) cal mag defs *slaps head*, funny thing is i before i used to get them spots, lack of cal mag obviously then i started super thrive and they dissapeared ! run my PH at 6.0 (lava rock re circ) and no more spots
sorry for the confusion.

just when you say "every old school grower uses it" about ST does that mean you do use it ? hehe , i think its great and def does some good, just been advised not to run during flower for the reasons you mentioned...delayed flowering.

with the silica im running it in a recic bubbler lava rock rig.. but yes it sounds right hehe.. and im with you

really liked your flush method too...i was just dumping the refilling and mixing without running the plain RO overnight...

as for the burner thats why i went tank...too much heat (i have a small room) and they do need alot of space so your not burning anything and naked flames 24/7 can play on your mind..

(sorry long post) 1000ppms eh? hmmm id be a little sus on that then again I guess you have to trust your controller...tried upping the Co2 by ALOT and see the readings...

anyhoot appreciate the lenghty reply


will be watching paitently

 

[JustATry]

I was stoked about 1.3 too. Yes, this was from the HDF. I had a really heavy yielder that I cloned. I ran two cycles with this lady and hit 1.1 on the first run and 1.3 on the second. This was without CO2!!

I only have the ability for two grows at these new locations, which are going to be remote, so I need to build something I can break down easily. Aero tables aren't that easy to break down. Because these are remote grows I am hesitant to use aero for exactly the same reasons you stated; pump noise, clogging misters, failing pumps, etc. It's great when it works but it's like a high-maintenance woman.

For the slabs I was looking at hydroasis.com. They were $14 each with a 15% discount over $1000. gaius, do you have any pros/cons to using the slabs versus loose coco?

I have about a week before I have to start ordering stuff. In the meantime I am just trying to absorb as much coco info as possible. I am definitely leaning in the coco direction though. gaius' threads have been very inspiring to say the least!

Also debating on Canna vs Botanicare nutes. I have been running the DutchMaster "One" line in the aero setup with absolutely amazing results! I haven't really ventured away from this in about a year. Anyone care to chime in on their experience with Canna or Botanicare?

Sorry bro, didn't mean to jack your thread. Damn HDF makes me ramble...

JAT

 

[gaiusmarius]

coco slabs are great, but coco in pots also drip fed have one great advantage and that's the fact that you can move the pots around making sure the small ones are right under the light while the bigger plants are placed around the edges.

once you know coco and the strain you are running real well you can plant them, even on slabs, in such a way that the canopy stays flatish. but this takes a bit of routine, with both the strain and coco in general. so going with 6.5 lt. pots seems the best bet in your situation, specially if you plan to hand water. slabs are a cunt to hand water.

 

[20kw dreams]

No worries JAT, just don't call What's his face over here, Mr TAG Racer or whatever his current name is over here, and I'm sure everything will be fine

I doubt he plans on hand watering 171 slabs Gaius. I think the key to vegging would be using 4" RW or Coco starters during the last week of flower, then moving them over after they are 8" tall or so. This way, you can put the smaller ones in the middle still.

What is that setup anyways? I tried to figure it out, and the only way I could figure, is 9 slabs per tray, 19 trays?

So, I was talking to the owner of the hydro store here about my flood and drain coco idea, and they had tried it. There were two problems:

1) The coco floated out if the water got above the top of the slabs, and made a huge mess. They were using 2 standard riser drains. I think this could be avoided by custum making a 1.5" pvc drain fitting & custom drilling the holes no problem. He also said the guy cut the top holes too big, which didn't help.

2) The coco was staying too wet. Thwy were starting bell pepper seedlings. I believe issue could have been resolved using the 4" blocks, if you put bigger plants in the coco, then they would root out and use water much faster, right?

you start in bigger blocks gaius, right?

and JAt - if you are going with coco, use Canna. I have run them both, hell, I love Botanicare, but it's not for coco IMO. I'm thinking about switching back to the PBP soil last couple weeks as an Organic flush, but we'll see.

I've got the Bio-Canna on order too, but it's backed up apparently, rep won't say how long.

 

[gaiusmarius]

yes i do always pre root my plants into rw cubes. if you plant newly rooted clones straight in the coco, only the hardiest will make it, without shock and slow down of one kind or another. while if i spend a week pre rooting them i get a chance to see which plants are gonna be the faster and which the slower ones, meaning i can plant them on the coco slabs as soon as they all have roots sticking out, in such a way that the canopy grows evenly. if one takes the bigger plants and plants them around the edges and the smaller ones right under the lamps, you end up with a very even canopy, with hardly a plant staying back. which can't be said if you plant them directly, you always get some that die and others that stay small. it's just all round better to preveg into cubes separately, saves time and energy too, because by that time, the plants need only a very short additional veg phase to create a perfect see of green. i'm talking about 2 to 5 days, once planted on slabs, if it's a normal stretchy pheno that is.

my god i hope no one tries to hand water 170 slabs, lol.

 

[Farmer John]

What if you make a "preused" batch of coco, kinda flush it so it's more of a neutral medium just like rockwool? For rooting clones I mean and then transplanting to fresh coco?

 

[gaiusmarius]

you can just fill a small cheap pot with coco. make sure it has real big holes for the roots to grow through to the slabs.

or you can order cubes made from coco instead of rw. once my supply of cubes is used i plan to go with either of the above solutions.

 

[20kw dreams]

I think ordering the Coco cubes would be the best. I have 3.73" pots I used on the last run, but occasionally the coco comes apart in the transplant, which is annoying. I thought about cutting the bottoms off of them, but I would waste so many pots it's ridiculous. I don't like waste, regardless of the cost. Not sustainable in the slightest, ya know?

So, check this out: I don't think anyone here knew it, but I've been a Horticulture major for the last year. I am currently working on a hydroponic demonstration for my college. In fact, I am the "Hydroponic demonstration coordinater". Basically, I am the guy setting it up, and asking for the donations necessary to make it all go. I'm going to be running some lettuce, herbs, and peppers. Anyways, I got a thumbs up from the owners of the 2 hydro stores in my area. They are each going to donate 2 - 4' x 8' tables, and the necessary equiptment to run them like pumps, feedlines, nutrients, etc. I have 3 - 4' x 20' concrete planters full of dirt to work with, and each of those setups will take one of those planters. The other one will be an NFT setup of my own design, just like the system I ran and got such bad pythium.

This is 100% on the up and up, but I'm definately going to be using it to test some of my ideas

Oh, and I saw that Sunleaves coco today. That shit looked pretty nice.

Anyways, I just printed up the official material request. I only really got the thumbs up for the basic shit, not the rockwool starter plugs, media, nutrients. They wanted me an official wishlist before they decided on the extras. I'm going to try and get a 20ltr donation of the Canna Coco A&B, but that part might not happen. I'll prob only get to use straight salt ferts, but oh well.

 

[gaiusmarius]

sounds like a cool experiment man, nice one

 

[20kw dreams]

Here's a bump

I gave the leaf tips directly under the light a little light scorch. Other then that, things are goin great.

Day 19