Old School White Widow

[@hempy]

Originally Posted by shantibaba
If you really want to research some important claims from ingemar or others claiming certain things then look for the strain descriptions of the widow before I wrote the strain descriptions...if you can find them....and see what the origins were of the parents. I would be so interested to see if anyone can find any prior to 1995...and if so what it said! All the best Sb

The Father of White Widow
Interview with Ingmar……from the greman cannabis magazine GROW

Grow? Hello Ingemar! You are known as “The father of White Widow” do you see it that way yourself?
Ingemar: Yes you could say that. I created a plant that became known under the name white widow.
Grow? Is the name from you too?
Ingemar: yes the name comes from the spider…
Grow? And “White”, because she´s packed with crystals.?!
Ingemar: Exactally, she is the first in the so called “White Family” later on other strains like white shark came as well
Grow? And what is so special about white widow, what kind of genetics are in her?
Ingemar: Well that of course is a secret! I can tell you this much she´s from two seeds that were breed and stablized for 6 years before being crossed together.
Grow? Where were the seeds from? From friends or from travels
Ingemar? The seeds came out of some hand rubbed hash
Grow? How exactly did you go about this
Ingemar: At that time Cannabis cultivation was not that big of problem in Holland.For the seed production you were allowed to grow big. I had fields that I could plant thousands so I could select the best under them.
Grow? What do you look for in a plant what are your guidelines?
Ingemar: That really is a secert as well. But let me say this I work with cannabis because for a lot of people this is there medicine, that’s how I go about it. That means I have been working with med pat. For over 15 years. I give them there medicine (for free) and they give me feedback on the different strains I gave out. The results were instant. So next to selecting for growth, mold resistance and yeild I also select for medical values.
Grow? How long Have you grown the cannabis plant?
Ingemar: Since 1980, I was 20 years old when I got my first seeds. Since then I have worked with plant on a daily basis 8 to 9 hours a day. During this time I have come to know what the cannabis plant needs to feel good so she will develop nicely. That’s how I came to relize that it takes 6 years for a cannabis seed to become a stable strain.
Grow? So you primarilly grow outdoors?
Ingemar: Yep, that’s what I´ve been doing for years, the plants that you see outside are from seeds that dropped last fall to the ground. They´ve been growing since Febuary.
Grow? Even through frost and bad weather?
Ingemar: Yep, those are some of the hardiest plants you will find they´ve addapted to our climate so good that not even our harsch weather will slow them down.
Grow? That sounds interesting, especially for our friends in the swiss…were can one get these seeds
Ingemar: well not yet, sorry. But when there ready then only at “De Sjamaan”. There you can purcase another strain of mine (purple Widow) she blooms early and gives good results outside. At the moment im working on the taste.
Grow? How exactally do you go about that? Do you plant a lemon tree next to a cannabis plant and the taste smell carry over?
Ingemar: it may sound stupid but you could do it that way, I myself have devloped a different way.
Grow? And that would been…………
Ingemar: when you use a fertilizer based on mango compound, the cannabis plant can obtain the falvor
Grow? And when you use a different fert then you can lose this taste?
Ingemar: Exactally, and that’s why I don´t care for indoor growing so much.Indoor the cannabis plant looses it own character
Grow? But with indoor you can obtain a garden year round. How do you care for your genetics over the winter
Ingemar: I use greenhouses for my mother plants..
Grow? Have you in all this time had problems with the law
Ingemar: Yes I have, I had to cancell our last meeting because I had a visit from the IRS….I was always open and honest with my cannabis growing to the government.and did not have any problems for a long time. A couple of years ago I then got a visit from the police and they took my plants. It came to a court case witch I won because I acted acourding to the law. The locale police assured me they would leave me alone. But then officers from a different district didn´t give a sh*t, and came by to take my plants away. I warned the police that I would make each one of them personally responceable for my loss, but they did not take me serious. And it turned out like I said free of all charges(again) and now the police have a problem because I followed the law they did not.
Grow?What allows you to grow here in holland when we hear of others grows being busted here in holland
Ingemar: up till 2002 the production of cannabis seeds were legal. Since that has changed ionly grow for scientific reasons. And growing for science is legal, I am the only one, that I know of in holland that can grow legally
Grow? Even indoor
Ingemar: No just outdoors
Grow? And how many are you allowed to grow? 5 is normal right
Ingemar: right, normally 5 per address, but I can grow as much as I like, they can´t do anything!!You have to remember that I´ve been fighting for 25 years against laws that make what I do illegal and since last year I have accomplished what I´ve been fighting for
Grow? But your not allowed to sell weed right?
Ingemar? No grass and no seed sales. I don´t grow for grass or for seeds I grow for science, the seeds that happen to come up are the collected and given to the company De Sjamaan
Grow? I understand…..are all strains at De Sjamaan variations of white widow?
Ingemar: basically yes, I have taken the original white widow and crossed her year for year and selected. That’s how the different strains came about from those two seeds but like I said it takes 6 years to stablize from there on
Grow? How is the Green house white widow? do they have the same one?
Ingemar: Yes it´s the same one. I gave Arjan the genetics and the name years ago he is the only one that has permission to use the name and genetics
Grow? Witch he has done very well with you yourself have not gotten rich?
Ingemar? No, it´s not about the money, to me it´s about the plant and the medical applications I find that´s more important that the money. If it were about the money I doubt I would have won in court!
Grow? Well not everyone thinks like yourself, have you heard of other growers treating there plants with posionious cemicals just for profit?
Ingemar: sure have, I´m currently writing a letter to the Minister complaing about this very thing for years he has allowed chemical weed to be sold in coffeeshops that lead to health risks down the line!
Grow? What kind of chemicals are they using
Ingemar: depends on the situation I have heard of them sprinkling coffee creamer a couple days before harvest to give them a white look or sparying hair spary over them for the same effect
Grow? People really do that
Ingemar: when it´s about money they will do anything
Grow? Do you use any pesticides or anything
Ingemar: no I just let it grow nature takes care of everything if you let it
Grow? But you do use fertilizers
Ingemar: yes, but only my self made mix
Grow? How is the THC content in your strains
Ingemar: I´d rather not take about that at the moment since the government is trying to bann strong marijuana
Grow? Okay back to white widow then, what in your opinion is the reason for the white widow popularity?
Ingemar: she is the first in the white line, she produces so much resin that one gets scared to smoke her. I have had little with her popularity to do all I did was give a coffeeshop dryed product that was entered in different cups and won.
Grow? Was it the weed
Ingemar: that’s what I asked myself, about the time white shark came out and immediately won a cup. I then entered the same weed under the name peacemaker and she won a cup so maybe it was the weed.
www.sjamaan.com This article was translated by
filtertip

So Ingemar now found 2 seed in the hand rubbed hash and breed stabilized it for 6 years but has only a clone only plant yep very believable

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Hempy none of the guys knows wats in the genetics.....shanti may have told you wat he incorporated into the seed line on the fathers side....I know wat it is but it dont really mater.....that above story sounds alot like the story of the famer shanti met for the mother......how many elite clones do people really know the genetics to......evry other seed shanti sells has supposed precise genetics listed...eg a5 x hazeC why not the widow.....
Also if you can please can you clarify....the mother plant is definitely of some south American type....roumoured to be magna rosa....is that correct ?
An I will agree some of the plants coming out the seed wer beter than the clone....those mainly being that spice side....the clone doesnt have it.
Besides shanti him self is saying that he made the seed versions to the clone......he certainly hasnt got two landrace plants to make the seed version of a clone at best he is only guessing the genetics too....an I doubt that would even be a seed version to the clone....or are people saying that is exactly what he has done..

 

[@hempy]

Dark your a smarty guy do you honestly think seed can survive the processes of hand rubbing hash making ?.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Dark your a smarty guy do you honestly think seed can survive the processes of hand rubbing hash making ?.

Hempy strange things happen....most elite finds are done by accident......I know people have found seed in all sorts of places....ive even seen wer hash is been bundled together with seeded weed.
Anyway hempy in reality I was around those time wen these things wer going on...an I know wat im saying is the truth.i dont have to rely on any stories that came up after from the names involved....im sure sam might knows too....as im sure do others who were around.....but im just some guy on the net so no one is gona take my word for it.....so just so people can see wat im saying could actually be true I asked for the breeding chart to be put up.....I also told the truth that any seedline that was sold as white widow was a woked line from a clone said to have won a cup, wich is true too.......theres a video footage were shanti isnt saying he went off around the world to find plants that he alone created the widow out of...but infact wat he is saying is he made the seed versions to a clone.....ive had hybrids using the white widow clone way before the seedline was made.....i did try an look for menus going back to those times but unfortunately I cant find none...am I lieing anywer.......anyway this being the wite widow thread I told the truth about its history..I never gained anything....I had no agenda.....wat I say cant hurt anyone as thousands of seeds have already been sold.....I dodged no questions that I can see...ive not relied on the drama created after the split....neither have I resorted to abusing anyone........ wer still in a possition wer not one person can say wat the actual genetics are.......if I know somthing to be true im gona say it...im not gona go along with something I know isnt true....its probably beter to move on from this as ive seen this subject can mess up threads....so we'l move forwards.

 

[@hempy]

Hempy none of the guys knows wats in the genetics.....shanti may have told you wat he incorporated into the seed line on the fathers side....I know wat it is but it dont really mater.....that above story sounds alot like the story of the famer shanti met for the mother......how many elite clones do people really know the genetics to......evry other seed shanti sells has supposed precise genetics listed...eg a5 x hazeC why not the widow.....
Also if you can please can you clarify....the mother plant is definitely of some south American type....roumoured to be magna rosa....is that correct ?
An I will agree some of the plants coming out the seed wer beter than the clone....those mainly being that spice side....the clone doesnt have it.
Besides shanti him self is saying that he made the seed versions to the clone......he certainly hasnt got two landrace plants to make the seed version of a clone at best he is only guessing the genetics too....an I doubt that would even be a seed version to the clone....or are people saying that is exactly what he has done..

Shanti did have the 2 plants to make the widow and may still have them i never asked but i know for a fact in the seed he gave me he told me 1 lot will throw out to the Sativa a different lot of seed with throw out the Indian side.

He never called the sativa magna rosa he just said it was a Brazilian sativa and told me the story of how he got it and how he got the indian line to.

I know for a fact shanti posted years ago stating GHS gave Ingmar a widow clone because Ingmar supplied them with flower so yea he did have a clone of the widow but he had clones of other lines that people smoked in the GHS coffee shop as he supplied them of flower.That dose not mean he created the strain.

I dont believe most of what comes out of Holland Dark Ingmar story sounds like bull shit to me seed in hand rubbed hash 1 seed then the story changes to 2 seed and we went from clone only to a strain he worked for 6 years.

 

[texasjack]

Dark your a smarty guy do you honestly think seed can survive the processes of hand rubbing hash making ?.

I know they can without a doubt.

How many keys of black hash did you break up back in the 60s and 70s? Many seeds came out of hash.

You dont think so?... go ask kagyu of coastal seeds or snowhigh see what they say.

Blows my mind all the BS lies and misinformation on these forum wise cracker lines.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Shanti did have the 2 plants to make the widow and may still have them i never asked but i know for a fact in the seed he gave me he told me 1 lot will throw out to the Sativa a different lot of seed with throw out the Indian side.

He never called the sativa magna rosa he just said it was a Brazilian sativa and told me the story of how he got it and how he got the indian line to.

I know for a fact shanti posted years ago stating GHS gave Ingmar a widow clone because Ingmar supplied them with flower so yea he did have a clone of the widow but he had clones of other lines that people smoked in the GHS coffee shop as he supplied them of flower.That dose not mean he created the strain.

I dont believe most of what comes out of Holland Dark Ingmar story sounds like bull shit to me seed in hand rubbed hash 1 seed then the story changes to 2 seed and we went from clone only to a strain he worked for 6 years.

Have you tried out the most sativa throwing set hempy.....I recon those should throw out somthing really good.....if you can get into the side that pushes those more spice like side to the extreames you should have some bad ass plants.

 

[texasjack]

If i was looking for a keeper White Widow today i would buy Nirvanas. They have the original WW genetics also.

Nirvana WW grown by a buddy couple months ago.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

If i was looking for a keeper White Widow today i would buy Nirvanas. They have the original WW genetics also.

Nirvana WW grown by a buddy couple months ago.
View Image View Image View Image

Nice plants texas jack.....nirvana white widow throws some very nice plants.....for some reson I used to love there white castle...think I was hooked on the pain relief properties I used to get from it....nice strong high too.

 

[@hempy]

Have you tried out the most sativa throwing set hempy.....I recon those should throw out somthing really good.....if you can get into the side that pushes those more spice like side to the extreames you should have some bad ass plants.

I have not touched them to be honest Dark i know one will throw to the sat side other to the Indian so in time i will and then make seed.

I would love to have the Brazilian line and Indian line stable so i can pop a few seed of each and know what i will end up with.

 

[@hempy]

I know they can without a doubt.

How many keys of black hash did you break up back in the 60s and 70s? Many seeds came out of hash.

You dont think so?... go ask kagyu of coastal seeds or snowhigh see what they say.

Blows my mind all the BS lies and misinformation on these forum wise cracker lines.

In all honesty i have never seen a seed or parts of a seed in any hash i smoked.I never got more than a few oz of hash at a time but a mate did he got lots never heard of seed in hash.

Hand rubbed hash would crush any seed that made its way to the persons hand that processes of hash making is not going to give you viable seed at best you may see parts of what was once a seed .

 

[@hempy]

If i was looking for a keeper White Widow today i would buy Nirvanas. They have the original WW genetics also.

Nirvana WW grown by a buddy couple months ago.

Nirvana are well known for reproducing other peoples work f2s at best.

Saying that i have read and even a friend told me there WW was very good.

 

[Donald Mallard]

I know they can without a doubt.

How many keys of black hash did you break up back in the 60s and 70s? Many seeds came out of hash.

You dont think so?... go ask kagyu of coastal seeds or snowhigh see what they say.

Blows my mind all the BS lies and misinformation on these forum wise cracker lines.

more bs and misinformation comes out of that guys mouth/fingers/posts that u quoted than most to be honest ,
seems to be some sort of expert , on misinformation that is ...


goes on like an old woman if u question his expert opinion (bs) too..

 

[@hempy]

more bs and misinformation comes out of that guys mouth/fingers/posts that u quoted than most to be honest ,
seems to be some sort of expert , on misinformation that is ...


goes on like an old woman if u question his expert opinion (bs) too..

Only bs i read seams to come from your posted directed towards me Donald this is becoming quiet a hobbit of yours of late so when did Mods in here get the authority to troll members and to brake forum rules ?.

I told you in PM i dont care what you think and how would you know what i did in my life you were not attached to my hip.

Your not a nice person and again i dont care what you think so keep your personal opinions about me and other members the fk out of the forum.

 

[RoyalFlush]

Lets see, Ingemar had his cut way back in 1987, which he named it *Arnhem’s Wonder*(1989 High Life Cup champion) at the time, Shanti didn't create his version until the 90's.

Sooo did Shanti also invent a time machine to go back to 1987 and give Ingemar a WW cut?

 

[Donald Mallard]

Only bs i read seams to come from your posted directed towards me Donald this is becoming quiet a hobbit of yours of late so when did Mods in here get the authority to troll members and to brake forum rules ?.

I told you in PM i dont care what you think and how would you know what i did in my life you were not attached to my hip.

Your not a nice person and again i dont care what you think so keep your personal opinions about me and other members the fk out of the forum.

for me its a worry that young people may think you know what your on about because your a senior member ,,

so its always good to let them know you dont on many things ,


there is no rule about that anywhere , im absolutely allowed to post how i did ,
you are some kinda know it all , but your information is often misinformation ,, its a mods job to clear those things up i think ..



as the person i spoke to on here mentioned , u absolutely can get a seed in hand rubbed hash , why couldnt you , its not put through a sieve , its hand rubbed , there is every possibility a seed could end up in it if there is seed in the cannabis one is rubbing.



stop trying to put people down and shout in their faces when you think you are right , quite often you are not , your just an angry little man and a narcissist ,
now given u keep reminding me im a mod , have some respect and stfu ...

 

[@hempy]

for me its a worry that young people may think you know what your on about because your a senior member ,,

so its always good to let them know you dont on many things ,


there is no rule about that anywhere , im absolutely allowed to post how i did ,
you are some kinda know it all , but your information is often misinformation ,, its a mods job to clear those things up i think ..



as the person i spoke to on here mentioned , u absolutely can get a seed in hand rubbed hash , why couldnt you , its not put through a sieve , its hand rubbed , there is every possibility a seed could end up in it if there is seed in the cannabis one is rubbing.



stop trying to put people down and shout in their faces when you think you are right , quite often you are not , your just an angry little man and a narcissist ,
now given u keep reminding me im a mod , have some respect and stfu ...

I think the worry should be your state of mind Donald and how justified you think you are to troll and trash people you dont like or agree with.

How you trash threads then blame others is also a bit sad to be honest save us the BS.

 

[HAZENACIOUS]

In all honesty i have never seen a seed or parts of a seed in any hash i smoked.I never got more than a few oz of hash at a time but a mate did he got lots never heard of seed in hash.

Hand rubbed hash would crush any seed that made its way to the persons hand that processes of hash making is not going to give you viable seed at best you may see parts of what was once a seed .

Lol! Never even heard of a seed in Hash, let alone seen one, and I have smoked plenty of Afghani hash. The people who make it, are artisans, they aren't going to let a seed get into the hash, I mean I suppose it could happen, I still buy a lotto ticket every once in a while. The bulk of the Afghan seed that was brought over in the 60s to CA was brought by Hash Dealers, that is true, but it wasn't in the hash, it was separate.

 

[Stocktont]

Afghani, Pakistani, Moroccan and most of the other legendary hash types were/are made with screens and it would be real hard to find seeds in those but hand rubbed would be the only technique where it would be possible. I think the hard part (with the Ingemar story) is to believe that he found both South American (Brazilian) and Indian seeds in hand rubbed hash. He used to state on his “white widow web” that very linage for the Widow. He also said he grew it with mango trees and it had a mango flavor due to that fact. He also said he grew and bred outdoors. Does mango trees do well in Holland?

I think the problem with the MrNice side of the story is that things changed. It's not that hard to see why it could but they seem to still say everything is done the “exact same way”. I have not grown the modern Black Widow so I can't say for sure but the Great White Shark and the Shark Shock won't show the same expressions in smell, flavor and high. Even the description has changed on it where it used to be Super Skunk x White Widow in the 90s and now at MrNice it's Widow x Skunk.

I had the luck of getting gifted some really old seeds in 2014 and tried to germinate them but the only one that would still grow (not frozen all those years) was this lone Great White Shark seed from Greenhouse 1997. it was very different from the Shark Shock of 2011 which I grew in 2014 along that lone GWS. There was nothing of the old Super Skunk and nothing from the old Widow in those new SS seeds. I am not saying it was not good weed but it was smooth, earthy and pretty bland to the boring side where the old seed was really loud in both smell and flavor. Acrid and rancid with huge resin heads and the effect was very akin to the old Super Skunk with a warm heavy stone. The flavor was a mix of the Super Skunk and Widow with a kind of stickiness to the smell. Nothing sweet at all. The high was also quite powerful where the new version (4 different females) were all pretty dull.

I can't really say that Shantibaba says that there were any clones before the seed version but it's a bit odd to talk about it like that though. If it was in fact from his seeds I bet he would have said so, I would. But he keeps the door open for a whole other version of Widow it seems. Hard to tell, he's not really being very specific or precise using “sort of thing” and “stuff” to yada-yada over bits of the stories he tells.

 

[Stocktont]

I used to smoke a lot of White Widow back in the mid 90s as it was one of those big things that just came on to the scene like Jack Herer and Super Skunk at that time (1995-1998) and later Super Silver Haze. The clone that they used to make flowers from in many places back then was not sweet or fruity at all. It had a turpentine kind of quality to it, not terpenes but turpentine or paint thinner, a sticky kind of smell. The flavor wasn't the greatest but it was strong with a lot of resin but not only resin, it had an oily kind of feel to it and pure joints wouldn't burn fast at all. I bought a lot of that between 1996 and 1998 especially from Denmark (Christiania) where they always had a fair price for the White Widow compared to Jack Herer which could go for the same asking price as some of the best imported hash. You would notice the “stickiness” in the smell and flavor even in outcrosses like Great White Shark and White Russian back then.

Brothers Grimm also used some of Greenhouse stock to make their own knock-offs from lines like White Widow (Grimm Widow) and Great White Shark (Grimm White Shark) that had bits of that kind of Widow in it. Sugar Blossom was another one with some Widow blood in it that was pretty good.