Off the shelf retail store screw-in LED and CFL bulb comparisons

[f-e]

If you have an old water heater, then perhaps you have a 3000w far red emitter. To everyone else, it's a water heater element, but I feel sure with 3000w up it, It will emit at least some far red. Not the most efficient emitter on the market, so I will call it an Iemitter. Or Zemitter. Or the emitter-X. Amazon can sell anything.

A 10 amp relay sounds a bit weak. Isn't the original timer in that league? As a blanket statement, relays are not suitable. We are posting in 'microgrows' but still it's setting yourself up for disaster. I used some lovely 'finder' brand 30a relays for some early switchgear. One guy has 6x600 on one for actual years. Anything over a single 600 could kill others. The difference being in the customers supply. The 20a version actually did better, as it had a shorter armature. This gave the same size return spring an easier job. As these weld upon release, not contact. So it could push open the contacts, against the arc drawing upon them. Ultimately it was the same contact material though, so death was on the cards.

Contactors use a bigger spring, and bigger closing coil, with two switches in a row, and generally a larger gap. They don't make a barely audible click, they can wake you up. It's kinda the same shit, different millennium. If you can wire one, you can wire the other. Most break 3 wires, and many have a 4th auxiliary switch. This aux switch is usually a bit lower rated, but not always, and can be specified to switch on when the main ones go off. Great to swap from lights to heaters. Or room to room. With no overlap.



edit: 235w.. I thought as much.
Strips don't cause the radio noise, it's cheap drivers using them as large antennas.
I'm not sure you can light a 2x2 with strips. Most seem too long. Concerned with linear lighting to levels below those of plant growth. SBG may of posted some short ones though

Edit: Yes.. he did. One was 28cm, but 1180lm and $2.80 needing a driver

 

[StillOvergrowin]

My three prototypes installed.

https://postimg.cc/K1p4Y8RyView Image

This one's okay...

https://postimg.cc/Xp3rHPTtView Image

I like this one best...

https://postimg.cc/v4ZcMV8zView Image

https://postimg.cc/HjbJtmPQView Image

This one is going in the garbage...

https://postimg.cc/ppZpgZvrView Image

I wonder if the holes are going to create 'hot spots' with the light?

(not even sure that would be detrimental or noticeable...)


That said, I do like the idea of a clear cover, and found a listing for "POLYCARBONATE CLOSED END CAP FOR LED TUBING" that might put us on the right path. The one vendor shows it as out of stock, but I cant imagine they're the only ones in the world...
Hmmm...come to think of it- what are petri dishes made from???
(and would a 2.5 inch dish fit a bulb?)



I think all we basically need is a bulb with a clear dome.



(but they wouldn't sell many more of the $15 bulbs if they released something like that)

 

[StillOvergrowin]

Purchased 20) 18w tubes and tombstone sockets from brother Jeff Bezo for $115. Works out to about 30 cents per watt. Left home about 4 days after installation. I’m anxious to get back to see the results. I’m a bit concerned over the anemic 25w per square foot coverage. May be a bust.

View Image
View image in gallery​

Not sure how to reposition pic. Sorry.

A challenger appears!


So it's 5 of the 4ft tubes on each side of the space? How big is your space on this one? A little bigger than 3X3?



I saw your pics of the floodlights and the SILs - how did those turn out for you? Did one do better than the other?

 

[f-e]

[I put a thin clear polycarb sheet in front of my cobs. Every mm matters, but you can get down to 10% losses. Perhaps chopping 70% of the dome away, then perforating the rest, and using it as a support for a clear window is valid. So 120 degree's of radiation pass only through the window.

This only concerns those of us who might shove plants in there lights (everyone? lol)


I know.. it's shit. The M3 tap snapped off, so I had to mount the cob pissed up. What can I say. Shame is upon me.

 

[StillOvergrowin]

From the size of it, that's no 1000w lamp. 200 maybe?

If your going to switch your lights by timer, you should wire up your own contactor. All you need is a $20 mini contactor, a plug on the end of a bit of wire, and a 4 way extension lead to chop in half. Some scissors and a No2 screwdriver. If you push the boat out a bit more, you could get a bigger contactor. Something that actually carries an ac15a rating. Though just being a contactor, makes it vastly superior to a plug in timer. Don't waste money on packaged contactors aimed at growers. Most don't contain a contactor. They just know the word. They use relays in a lot of them. Choosing them by carrying capacity not make or break capabilities. IIRC mine can close on a 16,000 amp short circuit and not weld shut. 16,000 amps. Which means being quite near a substation. Typical domestic breakers can disconnect 6000. Something a mini can live up to, with a reasonable 3kw ac3 rating.



Umm yeah..can we get some pictures of that??


Finding your lights don't go off, because of a bad timer, is both common and not at all funny. If you really want a bad timer, then one for the electric water heater is usually quite a sturdy design. It should be rated 3kw, and water heaters fall in the same catagory as halogen lighting

Thanks for that tip! I had forgotten about those. They are an easy 'pro-level' upgrade to your controller set-up for $60-$70.

 

[StillOvergrowin]

... Yes.. he did. One was 28cm, but 1180lm and $2.80 needing a driver

If I read that correctly- Let's say $15 for the driver and 4 of the strips @ $3 would be another $12.

That's 4600lm for $30ish.



You'd still need wiring, connectors and a frame. But it might be competitive at the $60 point.



I'm not sure how many strips one driver could run. And the fancy 'wagu' connectors cost more than some of the strips!



-I don't want to link from here, but NASA has an extensive program of study on growing food in space - with LEDs.
Lots off cool super high tech micro grow boxes with 150+ sensors.



The newest version is a self contained module:
"The Advanced Plant Habitat (APH), like Veggie, is a growth chamber on station for plant research. It uses LED lights and a porous clay substrate with controlled release fertilizer to deliver water, nutrients and oxygen to the plant roots"


Just google for 'growing plants in space'. /rant off

 

[StillOvergrowin]

[I put a thin clear polycarb sheet in front of my cobs. Every mm matters, but you can get down to 10% losses. Perhaps chopping 70% of the dome away, then perforating the rest, and using it as a support for a clear window is valid. So 120 degree's of radiation pass only through the window.

This only concerns those of us who might shove plants in there lights (everyone? lol)
View Image

I know.. it's shit. The M3 tap snapped off, so I had to mount the cob pissed up. What can I say. Shame is upon me.

I can live with 10% loss. What would that be equal to in distance from the light source as far as loss % would go? Seems negligible.


I cut some of my globes with a razor blade instead of prying them off. I l left about a half inch/15cm collar on the base of the bulb (pics are in my 1st or 2nd post). I was just looking at them thinking it would be pretty simple to put a little bit of silicone on the collar and attach a clear plate.

Heck, I wouldn't even care if was a square piece on a round bulb. As long as it's inexpensive, effective and safe.

 

[f-e]

2" square 'samples' are quite common on ebay. I wouldn't try cutting such a thin and brittle material myself, but maybe a fine toothed hole saw could do it. In greater thicknesses, it's used to line riot vans as bullet protection. I have no confidence in it myself, but what are cd's made of? I bet it's the same stuff. They don't break easily.

I havn't ignored your contactor pics request. I looked about, and it seems we need a separate thread on the subject. So my intent is to get some pics together, when I'm not close to joining my pillow

 

[PCBuds]

I havn't ignored your contactor pics request. I looked about, and it seems we need a separate thread on the subject. So my intent is to get some pics together, when I'm not close to joining my pillow

Great idea!
Make sure you post a link to the new thread here so we can find it.
Maybe an LED strip thread too?

That way this thread can get back to being the flower show that it has apparently turned into. Lol

Meanwhile, I'm going to stick with the SIL's for a little while and let you guys do the R&D before I jump in the rabbit hole. Lol.

 

[PCBuds]

I wonder if the holes are going to create 'hot spots' with the light?

(not even sure that would be detrimental or noticeable...)

They do cast little light spots onto the plant and I don't think I like that.

This only concerns those of us who might shove plants in there lights (everyone? lol)

Yeah, that's what I do.
I shove my sidelights right in and under the plant.
Half my bulbs are all sticky with resin. Lol

Readers here might be interested in this article, Improving Cannabis Bud Quality and Yield with Subcanopy Lighting
. Possible with the bulbs.

https://journals.ashs.org/hortsci/view/journals/hortsci/53/11/article-p1593.xml

I read part of that article and it makes sense to me.

I figure the only thing wrong with my setup, is too much heat in my cab and the bases getting too hot to touch, killing nearby leaves.
I don't care too much about my total Watts, just the hot spots.

I also think that there is something to that "diffused lighting" you mentioned.

I'm going to go with this design.



The box says the bulb has a 200° beam spread and I think I've effectively reduced that to more of a spot.
I wonder if I've actually reduced the light absorption of the globe, simply because there is less material in the path of the light beam?

I'm keeping my overhead lights domeless.

Those Noma bulbs are on sale again.
A six-pack for $10.14 + tax.

I'm gonna go blow another $11.50. Lol

I'll check the price of the 100 Watt equivalent bulbs.

 

[Boocoodinkydow]

A challenger appears!


So it's 5 of the 4ft tubes on each side of the space? How big is your space on this one? A little bigger than 3X3?



I saw your pics of the floodlights and the SILs - how did those turn out for you? Did one do better than the other?

I only did one grow with the floods and it was acceptable. It was a pure Sativa and it was a bit leggy and actually grew past my lights, exceeding 4’. Hard to say if the stature was strain related or from light deprivation. I seldom weigh my goods any more but I did reap one and a half quarts of premo buds, being very selective.

I’ve done one grow from start to finish with 7) 10.5w SIL’s. The growth was phenomenal, especially in the early stages. Production under the SIL’s was better but the strains were worlds apart so it would be improper to say one light is better than the other. I think a single flood is definitely a frugal choice for a single plant with moderate expectations.

As a disclaimer, my recent experimentations have been an attempt to find minimalistic parameters of success by first establishing the points of failure. There’s no segment of my gardening that couldn’t be improved upon. I use coco/perlite medium and never flush. I use unfiltered well water and have no idea of the ph. I use a single nutrient at full strength from start to finish. I use a 12/12 light schedule from seed. My temps stay typically in the 80’s and humidity levels generally above 70%. I often go 2-3 weeks without even looking in on the garden.

Reasoning behind this abuse?!? Start up costs for cannabis gardening can be staggering. I’m sure there are individuals on the sidelines that are intimidated by cost factors as well as attention to detail our more advanced growers are adhering to. I’m hoping to eventually organize my experiences and present a grow diary for those with limited budgets and expertise.

As far as my present grow, again it is a pure Sativa that has been under the 7 SIL’s for 6 weeks using a 12/12 light schedule from seed. My grow box is a surplus military locker from an era past. The interior dimensions are slightly less than 2X4X6. At 6 weeks I did some moderate pruning and lashed the plant to a grid panel attached to the back of the locker. I built 3 portable frames to which I attached 7) 4’ 18w tubes to each. These are hanging directly in front of the plant. One of the pix that I posted did show the light panel hanging to the side but I just placed it there temporarily for the photo of the plant. It’s set up to where I can vary the distance between the light and the plant. At present I have a single plant and am using 10 bulbs. The array is covering an area measuring 2’X4’.

 

[PCBuds]

... There’s no segment of my gardening that couldn’t be improved upon....

I hear that!! Lol.

My whole grow is one big experiment.

I'm switching to coco coir and perlite for my next grow. (as well as a bag of worm poop)

I'm debating on whether or not to put some of my old soil with it to introduce my soil mites and springtails which I'm guessing are part of a healthy bio-herd?

The experiment continues. Lol

 

[PCBuds]

I removed the globe from another bulb and found a "defect in materials and workmanship".



I wonder if the glue on the LED segment would have led to premature failure and if the whole bulb would have shut down?

The Noma bulb globes cut easily with scissors and I found these scissors at the dollar store. They're for eating lobster. Lol

They make it easier to cut circles.

 

[PCBuds]

So, in the Watts Per Dollar Challenge, I'm going to offer up Terpene's View Image idea of a premade vanity light with 3 off the shelf bulbs (with the globes removed).

I went with this for 5 bulbs.



Then I screwed it to a bulb socket on a cord so I could raise and lower it.



I did this when I was running out of headroom and didn't want to scorch my plant.

 

[Boocoodinkydow]

I opted for these. Great for the price but it does eat up significant headroom. I like the versatility of your find in that respect.

 

[PCBuds]

I've got one of those too (the 5 socket version) but it's a two-dollar piece of eBay crap. I wasn't comfortable with it and I can aim the bulbs with my new version.

Your right about the headroom though, I soldered the wires directly to the unit because the wired bulb socket took up to much space.

I'm in a closet however and I've got more headroom but it gets pretty hot at the ceiling so a few inches of space is a good thing.

 

[indagroove]

If I read that correctly- Let's say $15 for the driver and 4 of the strips @ $3 would be another $12.

That's 4600lm for $30ish.



You'd still need wiring, connectors and a frame. But it might be competitive at the $60 point.

If you could just spend $65 at home depot and get 16,000 lumens. Not LED, but will do better than anything else you can buy over the counter..

 

[PCBuds]

These are the four types of bulbs I have. (I think that's all?)
They are all 10 Watt, 800 lumens.
The one on the left is 3000K, the rest are 5000K.





The two on the left are Great Value and I think the far left one is "first generation".
I don't like it.
It gets hot as hell and the base is quite a bit smaller as well as the circuit board.

Apparently, LED bulbs aren't lasting as long as advertised mostly because of heat.

The newer bases are bigger around with much more surface area to dissipate heat.

I'm sure they're all still 10 Watt heaters wasting a tiny bit of energy as photons but the newer design can dissipate the heat better and doesn't get as hot.

In my case, I don't want too much heat.
I'm afraid of starting my plant on fire.

I don't know exactly how hot they are or what the ignition point of cannabis leaves are but the IR thermometer I ordered should help with that.

 

[PCBuds]

If you could just spend $65 at home depot and get 16,000 lumens. Not LED, but will do better than anything else you can buy over the counter..
View Image

I've got a similar shop light but it's a 500 Watt halogen.

I was using it to work on my sister's car and melted her bumper.

The light was about 4" from the bumper.

We want efficiency, not radiant energy.

We want our plants to smoke when we roll them, not when we're growing them. Lol

 

[PCBuds]

I thought I'd do a field test with some dried up fan leaves.