O.Ds 2017 Organic Run

[OrganicDisciple]

Hey caller 28 your on the air... lol

The only thing that I see that sticks out as not so good is the level of bicarbonates in the water, an avg of 162ppm, I didn't see pH in the report but I'll assume your water is over a pH 7.6? Bicarbonates bond with Ca and make it unavailable to your plants.

Only a couple ways to deal with it that I know of, use sulfuric acid to bring the pH down to 6.2 to dissociate bicarbonate ions and releases CO2 from the water or just a good old fashioned top dressing with gypsum.

.....i seem to be having a soil p.h issue also. Seems to he a little low. This litmus test was pulled from about 6 inches below surface

 

[OrganicDisciple]

Hey caller 28 your on the air... lol

The only thing that I see that sticks out as not so good is the level of bicarbonates in the water, an avg of 162ppm, I didn't see pH in the report but I'll assume your water is over a pH 7.6? Bicarbonates bond with Ca and make it unavailable to your plants.

Only a couple ways to deal with it that I know of, use sulfuric acid to bring the pH down to 6.2 to dissociate bicarbonate ions and releases CO2 from the water or just a good old fashioned top dressing with gypsum.

Would you add gypsom with p.h levels seeming that low?

 

[cbcool]

With your high water pH and and high bicarbonate, yes I would, but I wouldn't get too aggressive until you get your soil analysis back. Maybe top dress a couple of lbs per plant until then.

 

[cbcool]

You may need AG lime if your %Ca saturation is below 60, but we need your test results to know for sure.

 

[OrganicDisciple]

You may need AG lime if your %Ca saturation is below 60, but we need your test results to know for sure.

Looking at financed unfortunately I won't be able to send off till next week which really sucks. Flower starts mid August for me. If gypsum were to help along with some fish foliar how fast would I see results? If they were positive and gypsum helped. I top dressed only 1 of the plants that are giving me problem with 2 lbs

 

[cbcool]

Looking at financed unfortunately I won't be able to send off till next week which really sucks. Flower starts mid August for me. If gypsum were to help along with some fish foliar how fast would I see results? If they were positive and gypsum helped. I top dressed only 1 of the plants that are giving me problem with 2 lbs

To be honest $51 is a small price to pay in comparison to the loss of 5, 10, 15 lbs over your whole garden.

Gypsum literally saved my garden last year, I grew on a friends property and the soil was fucked, super high Mg and Na and I didn't know until flowering started and my plants were sick, got a soil test and did more hours of research then I can count on every appendage on my body times 10.

There is no such thing as too much Ca as long as you have the B to back it up to facilitate Ca uptake, as long as your not pushing out K and Mg below threshold levels.

All comes down to a soil test, in my former career I was the senior chemical analyst specializing in precious metals reclamation and process development for a major mining industry, speculation was unaccepted only cold hard analytical data was viewed as fact.

Soil chemistry is not much different, sorry if I came off condescending, I've learned to per-appoligize cause I can't tell when it happens.

 

[OrganicDisciple]

To be honest $51 is a small price to pay in comparison to the loss of 5, 10, 15 lbs over your whole garden.

Gypsum literally saved my garden last year, I grew on a friends property and the soil was fucked, super high Mg and Na and I didn't know until flowering started and my plants were sick, got a soil test and did more hours of research then I can count on every appendage on my body times 10.

There is no such thing as too much Ca as long as you have the B to back it up to facilitate Ca uptake, as long as your not pushing out K and Mg below threshold levels.

All comes down to a soil test, in my former career I was the senior chemical analyst specializing in precious metals reclamation and process development for a major mining industry, speculation was unaccepted only cold hard analytical data was viewed as fact.

Soil chemistry is not much different, sorry if I came off condescending, I've learned to per-appoligize cause I can't tell when it happens.

Lol your alright man. Tore my rotator cuff and been on work comp. It's been hard to adjust looking 2k a month. Just can't send till next week. Nothing I can do about it unfortunately. But seeing that I use so much damn kelp meal , alfalfa meal, mollases, and compost and ewc i bet it would be hard to offset itI built my soil by hand. About 6 yards and added one 50lb bag of gypsom in the last 3 years. I don't think there's any other " blind " explanation for what's going on. As in sure my soil is fertile as all hell. Just doesn't know what to do with it. And because ca is probably very low it can't use any of it. Seems as if my problem plant is stacking and I've came across the reads stating the plant will use the most ca during transition. I think I'll add another 2 lbs of gypsum to one problem plant for shits. I will go around and add gypsum to all pots. I'm sure based on what I've put in it the Ca won't hurt at all.

 

[plantingplants]

I would definitely bet you are short on Ca by most standards so it wont hurt to topdress. And if you do have high bicarbs then a light topdress is nothing. Butthis is all guesses.

We are neighbors kind of.

 

[master kusher]

if your'e low on cal you should add some cal mag?

 

[OrganicDisciple]

I would definitely bet you are short on Ca by most standards so it wont hurt to topdress. And if you do have high bicarbs then a light topdress is nothing. Butthis is all guesses.

We are neighbors kind of.

Nice. What area? I did do 2 lbs of gypsum per pot. I also foliar some fish hydroslyate and Soluble kelp. High in p. I think it's labeled 1-1-18 as Slow said I'm probably low in p. Not to mention the micros and macros. Hopefully things clear up. The fish is labeled 12-1-1 with of course the aminos. Hopefully I see some type of improvement. The plants don't look bad really. But I want them to look great. Can't wait to get the test done....

 

[OrganicDisciple]

if your'e low on cal you should add some cal mag?

I'M guessing I just don't have the Ca. As I have plenty of compost and Ewc in there full of mag

 

[Limeygreen]

Plants will need a good amount of calcium phosphate while transitioning to flowering, if they are lacking in those elements they will weaken. You can get liquid bone meal that somewhat helps or look up Korean natural farming for a quick recipe using bone meal and vinegar, if you just need the calcium, oyster shells works too in that recipe. Just would need the amounts and dilution recipe.

 

[slownickel]

Hey caller 28 your on the air... lol

The only thing that I see that sticks out as not so good is the level of bicarbonates in the water, an avg of 162ppm, I didn't see pH in the report but I'll assume your water is over a pH 7.6? Bicarbonates bond with Ca and make it unavailable to your plants.

Only a couple ways to deal with it that I know of, use sulfuric acid to bring the pH down to 6.2 to dissociate bicarbonate ions and releases CO2 from the water or just a good old fashioned top dressing with gypsum.

At 162 ppms of bicarbonates, the drain on the calcium supply will be constant.

As well, sure looks like you are missing B....

Way to go CBCool! Pass on the knowledge, way to go!

 

[slownickel]

if your'e low on cal you should add some cal mag?

Cal mag is greatly disproportionate with too much Mg for that little bit of Ca.

Most times, folks problems are too much Mg.... what is wild is that you can have an excess of Mg in the soil and still a Mg deficiency in the leaves if the K is too high or there in not enough P....

Getting folks off the Mg is not easy....

 

[plantingplants]

Where do you see B, SNickel? Snickels.

OD i bet your K is off the charts.

 

[slownickel]

Where do you see B, SNickel? Snickels.

OD i bet your K is off the charts.

Look at the new growth. Can't get enough Ca. Too yellow too long. Then it greens up. The cupping of the new foliage for too long. Supposedly yellow and brown tipping is also occurring.

 

[OrganicDisciple]

Where do you see B, SNickel? Snickels.

OD i bet your K is off the charts.

Nickel was kind enough to get in touch with me. I emailed him a few pics and as we talked I was inspecting. So that's where that came from. It's humbling to know that I've taken my own biology classes this last 3 years and figuring out science go hand in hand the last couple days. Everyone always referring to the most luscious forest, the most soil life, the abundance of microbes and what not. But never specific on the one PLANT your trying to push to its limit and the science to pushing to soil to be available. Yes you can grow a decent sized plant, decent yeild with decent flower and never realize at the end it was just decent but to everyone else it was amazing. But that's what separate the people that want to know and are never happy. The norm from the elite. It's It's awesome to know that there are people out there that take it upon them selves to help someone achieve there goals ( free of charge) as long as you show interest and dedication. You can only help someone that wants to help themselves. As I want to stand out myself. Stand still and get left behind. Sorry I quoted your comment for my rant. Rant over though lol. Nose will be in books and asking silly question till I can answer them myself lol

 

[OrganicDisciple]

Look at the new growth. Can't get enough Ca. Too yellow too long. Then it greens up. The cupping of the new foliage for too long. Supposedly yellow and brown tipping is also occurring.

All different plants. Different genetics

 

[OrganicDisciple]

So turns out my soil just can't keep up with GDPs needs. Greenhands gave me a quick recipe that did the trick so far simply strong dosing of hydrolized fish in protein form along with some soluble kelp. Yellowing has slowed to a crawl so far and has really greened up a bit. So all is well for now. Ice also taken the steps for my headband. I noticed during transplants it's root mass was insane compared to its size compared to others and has lightened up a bit. But besides all that everything is going very well. Clones seemed to have gotten the best of me This year. First year growing clones and seem to have all started flowering on me for the most part earlier then I would have liked.

 

[calisun]

Your plants look great. A couple of mine are doing same thing yours were. I've been using hydrolized fish protein myself at 2 tsp per gal foliar and 1 tsp per gal as drench with some micro nutrients. Mind sharing the recipe you got. I'm wondering how much a strong dose is.