Northern California Outdoor - 400 Gallon Raised Beds

[Noonin NorCal]

Y'all, have way to much into it. Ive averaged a pound plus per plant out of a 45 gallon smart pot which is taller then id like.

I have 4 neighboring fences at 8 feet, so I'm subject to leave them at 6-7 feet at the most.

If i had nothing to worry about, i would do rows/beds and maybe even mounds.

All these numbers don't mean shit, its just a sample number

 

[dank.frank]

Numbers make a difference when you want results that are the exact same each time. Consistency is the key.



dank.Frank

 

[GlaZed420]

Go to Cloverdale and see the Soil King, Get the big rootz soil!
No need to ammend anything to it, its light and airy.
If anything throw in some extra perlite and mix the shit out of it.
I add some neem cake/meal to it and add the perlite as well

I think it cost 120-130 per yard. But they hook it up with extra...

Interesting. im 60 minjutes south of Cloverdale. this mix sounds pretty light for outdoor no?

 

[GlaZed420]

It's not that simple as a smaller pot will just give you a smaller plant. They will be so much harder to keep healthy the whole year. That plant will grow and grow until it runs out of nutrients. Either it won't be healthy, or it will still get just as big as a bigger pot. Only the plant will just want to grow tall and skinny. because it has no lateral roots. Plants naturally only want to grow a little wider then their roots. It would suck to have a 16ft tall, 4ft wide, unhealthy plant that can't fight off disease come flower time. Larfy buds with rot from dying leaf can be likely. If i wanted smaller plants, id use a 100 but plant a teeny tiny clone like July 1st. You can plant a clone june 1st that will totally max out a 300 gal.

As far as coots mix goes, i think it's wayy expensive and won't do anything a cheaper mix wont do. That rock dust is going to take 100 years to break down to do anything for you. But i really like the texture of the coots being 1/3 compost, 1/3 drainage, 1/3 fluff.
I follow the same ratios with less expensive ingredients.
I do something like
1 part lava rock
1 part perlite
1 part coco
1 part fir bark or peat
1 part cow manure compost
1 part green waste compost

For amendments per yard
37.5 lb of shutzman chicken pellets
10 lb of fishbone
2 lb calphos
2 lb langbeinite
1 lb potash
10 lb alfalfa
Ph balance with lime if necessary. But that should be balanced without it.

No compost tea, no liquid feeding. A couple light top dressings if you are feeling frisky. That will give you more nutrients available the first year at 1/2 the price. Next year get a soil sample and balance minerals to Albright ratios.

That's just what has worked best for me over the years. Kind of part coots mix, part Tom hill mix, with a dash of my own style.

interesting bud. thank you for your help

 

[CrushnYuba]

@CrushnYuba - I know you run successful trees, which is why I wanted to break down your mix ratios a bit and see what your NPK levels looked like. I run organic soil as well and have been working out a new mix based on 4-6-5 as a profile base. I reviewed my old mixes for a base and adjusted accordingly. 740-1110-945 is what I'm amending my indoor soil bed to.

You are running basically 4-5.7-3.6, which is fairly close to my target goals, which I find interesting. The biggest difference, must be a result of a sun, as your soil is much richer. I'm surprised by the nutrient levels. You use 59.6% more nitrogen, 57.3% more phosphorous, and 42.6% more potassium. Just find it interesting what big trees take vs indoor plants.



dank.Frank

I think the biggest difference is Sun and length of grow time. Keeping a plant happy all year with no deficiencies with just water is hard. That amendment list i gave works well but it still needs top dressing for a plant to max out. There is only so much crap you can pile in there at the start. I know
some people foliar feed their plants every week, but i don't have the man power and I'm not 100% sold on it.

 

[Shcrews]

Since you don't want them to get too big, sprout seeds / cut clones in April or May, not February. Otherwise they will definitely outgrow your smart pots and you will face the issues outlined above by CrushNYuba

 

[GlaZed420]

Since you don't want them to get too big, sprout seeds / cut clones in April or May, not February. Otherwise they will definitely outgrow your smart pots and you will face the issues outlined above by CrushNYuba

Even in 200 gallons?

 

[CrushnYuba]

Id say so. April cuts will be damn big. So could May cuts. 200s are pretty small.

 

[GlaZed420]

Id say so. April cuts will be damn big. So could May cuts. 200s are pretty small.

I should probably clarify as I'm sure it could have implications. I intended on planting the seed starts. I was going to take cuts to do a crude way of sexing and pheno hunting if that makes sense?

 

[Mengsk]

I am trying to think this out practically and more or less follow your plan. Keeping plants healthy that long while you wait to determine sex sounds somewhat bulky, inefficient. If you are sifting through seeds for phenotypes they could all be rootbound under lights. But if you are looking for seed plants to go outside in 200 gallon pots then you want them to be 100% thriving at every stage from a seedling IMO.

They will be getting pretty big by the time a clone begins flowering. You are essentially keeping every seed plant as a viable ideal mother plant, and taking clones and flowering them. Not much of a shortcut you know what I mean? It does sound like a thorough method to get good plants for next season however.

The genotype kits can tell you male/female but I don't know if that serves much purpose for pheno hunting in the same round. People have been determining the gender of cannabis plants just fine before the kits were around. When there is an advantage of technology frequently there is an equal disadvantage or hole poked in the inflatable argument sales pitch. Some tech mixed with a lot of marketing. Completely unnecessary. In fact I question whether a smart grower gets any advantage at all from the kit. I don't want to get carried away but it's like designer babies - only the richest, most narcissistic and psychopathic people will claim to improve your babies. For someone who is religious or not religious, either way that idea is shallow meaning superficial and deeply flawed and disturbing for many reasons. It seems people are always finding new ways to be unethical.

I don't have anything against Phylos, I am just keeping it real from my point of view telling it like it is. A licensed farm may use Phylos and they may either see a benefit there or maybe there is an advertising partnership. But for me, my budget and skills, I don't see anything worth buying there. The open source is cool but I wouldn't pay them to send in all my plant samples. It sounds good for a library where you are paying to make a library or preservation entry. Only a pretty picture from some samples they collected and whatever they are charging for a sex test kit. I might as well send clones to Katsu in the mail before sending in for a sex test kit but I digress. The "no brainer" is made for people with no brain. But if you have a brain then it isn't for you, something like that.

 

[CrushnYuba]

So you want to flower cuts of the seedlings and plant the seedlings. Yea, you would have to start by feb. Its possible to sustain a plant for 8 months in only 200 gallons but not super easy. Frequent top dressings as liquid feedings and it's doable. you said you didn't want them too big. 8 healthy months grows a big ass plant. And in a narrow pot, it will take some intense training to stop it from being incredibly tall.

It may be better to pheno hunt and then plant clones. That is what i would do. You can grow some monsters with clones. Allot of people have experienced having younger starts that were started later, outgrow earlier starts.

 

[wantaknow]

Tap roots are key to an outdoor large grow

 

[Mengsk]

For the OP and your plan pheno hunting that's pretty much what nurseries do. If you are planning on searching through seeds you might think about a clone supplier. At least give some thought to what kind of time and/or budget you have. Seeds are cheaper but take more effort on your part. Buying plants is clearly the easier yet more expensive option. Money vs time and effort is where it depends a lot I think on your goals etc.

People might have different views on buying plants vs buying seeds but when planting time comes around it is awfully tempting and nice to have the option of purchasing starts. Only time will tell but you could spend hours and months tending seedlings during your pheno hunt only to find the nursery has done the work for you. $20-50 or more for an awesome mother plant is cheap but $50 each planting a whole field not so much. The relative cost is always low (return on investment) but the absolute cost is higher than many can reasonably afford. $20 per clone in a sea of green arrangement is quite different from 2-5+ pounds per plant.

 

[GlaZed420]

For the OP and your plan pheno hunting that's pretty much what nurseries do. If you are planning on searching through seeds you might think about a clone supplier. At least give some thought to what kind of time and/or budget you have. Seeds are cheaper but take more effort on your part. Buying plants is clearly the easier yet more expensive option. Money vs time and effort is where it depends a lot I think on your goals etc.

People might have different views on buying plants vs buying seeds but when planting time comes around it is awfully tempting and nice to have the option of purchasing starts. Only time will tell but you could spend hours and months tending seedlings during your pheno hunt only to find the nursery has done the work for you. $20-50 or more for an awesome mother plant is cheap but $50 each planting a whole field not so much. The relative cost is always low (return on investment) but the absolute cost is higher than many can reasonably afford. $20 per clone in a sea of green arrangement is quite different from 2-5+ pounds per plant.

I have never had good luck with mass produced clones... always PM and or a random mite. Ive always had the best luck with seed starts for obvious reasons.

 

[CrushnYuba]

Tap roots are not that key i don't think. People pre veg seedlings in that little pot, and the tap root is usually non existent by the time you transplant it. Tap roots are more for anchoring a plant then taking up water. Lateral roots are really what does the eating, drinking, and stretches out to encourage a wide plant up top.
I don't see a big difference in overall vigor between my clones and seedlings. Probably because the phenotypes i keep, i chose because of vigor.

 

[apollojmr]

I’m in Michigan and considering a grow inside of 275 gallon IBC totes with oxygen fed to roots. Anyone ever done this?

 

[CrushnYuba]

Apollojmr: i have never heard of dwc being done in a greenhouse. You have to chill the water and that poses issues. Also to keep do levels high enough in that much water, you would have to use a really big regenerative blower. Air pumps won't cut it.

What i have done and seen other people do that is similar with allot less risk of failure is running a very very light soiless mix and having multiple feed and dry out times per day.

 

[GlaZed420]

Whats up guys... im considering planting in raised beds vs. fabric pots... downsides? upsides? Stuff 2 in 10'x4'x24" or something like that

 

[GlaZed420]

Popped some seeds. 6 Blueberry Syrup (Blueberry x Cherry Pie), 6 Cookies n Cream x MDB x GDP and 6 California Sunset (Sunset Sherbet x MDB x GDP). The Blueberry Syrup shows purple leaves already and 5 of 6 have purple stems. Several plants of the other 2 strains also are showing purple leaves already just not as pronounced. I killed one of the California Sunsets on accident. All seeds are from Calco Genetics

 

[GlaZed420]

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