NGB MicroBox Modifications

[DurbanPoison]

I really think that depends on the cooling needs of your light. If you can put your light inside a tube and use that as the entrance for air being suck into the fan, you probably wont need more than 140cfms, but the air space of the cab is also important. You want the air supply being refreshed often. I believe the rule is 3 times per minute. I would suggest a vortech. Check out the link in my sig - they're very affordable.

 

[NOKUY]

hey guys

Just thought I'd stop by and show ya a cpl. pics of my new cab (some of you knew I was building)

def. modeled after the NGB box, and some features borrowed from this thread and others on here too, plus a few of my own ideas.

it's not 100% done, I still need to put locks on, door handles, weatherstrip, center the (2) 150 watt HPS lights, finish the res., and the carbon scrubber...but it's mostly done.

Heres a cpl. pics...check out my thread for lots of pics and all specifics on it:

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=50763&page=1&pp=15






I need to center my lights still

 

[Guest]

Great job Nokuy. I like the dual light setup with twin cool tubes. Can the fans suck enough air in that small gap between the wall and the open end of the glass chimney tube?

Your fan can only draw whatever the smallest inlet or outlet is.

I love the twin lights. It's like the guy that zipped up his car with twin carbs and a high flow exhaust and intake.

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

Jusat got finished with about 95% of the re-work to my NGB cab.

I sadly did not take pics of the work in progress but tomorrow I will have before and after pics.

It was a big change to the vent system (each cab seperately vented and filtered) and at the moment is working as planned but the carbon filter is not online yet as I need to get more flexible 4" ducting.

At the present time, the flower chamber, which has been chronically 12+ degrees above ambient is at 6 degrees above ambient. SIgnificant savings on the AC bill in summer and just plain better.

Tomorrow I will have pics up.

Later

minds_I

 

[stevr59]

hey minds looking forward to seeing ur new pics, my set up as of now keep me 6 degrees above ambient. i could drop it a lil more if i leave the door cracked. soon as i get the funds i will add some dark room vents and ditch the pipe which would be great as that would give me more room. then i could add a adjustable self in the mother room. and today i am going to shorting the light hood up as it is a lil to big since i added the 4" flex hose now i can't center up my light, so i will do that today and may be tomorrow go get a peace of glass cut for it.

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

Heres the pics. sorry for the quality.

This is how the cab looked before modifications only cleaner.


Anyway, as you can see I used PVC venting- bad idea all around in cabs were space is a premium. Same configuration as the orginal NGB cab...air comes in through the veg chamber into the flower chamber then through the light box out to the CF in the utility room and out the box. The system fan is in the utility room where it expels air outside the top of the box. This creates a vaccum in the utility chamber. The systems air is drawn through the carbon filter and out the box.

Problem(s):
1) Not enough inlet area for the veg chamber or the flower chamber.
2) Air from veg box is heated 6+ degrees F above ambient before it goes into the flower box. 250w hps raises inside temps an additional 6+ degress for a total of 12-14 degrees about ambient....too hot- fluffy buds


Solution:

Vent veg and flower chambers seperately.

Issues are that I want to use the CF for both chambers (vegging plants and moms stink too). Since the utility room is set up as a vacuum chamber anyway, I just added a dayton 4" flange adapter and hooked it up directly to the CF.

I added to the veg chamber about a 20 sqin homemade DIY darkroom louver. I fashioned them from ordinary aluminum garage wall vents. Works perfectly.



To the top of the veg chamber, I removed the existing light rails between the existing air inlet pipes at the top of the veg chamber. I mounted them on a sheet of ply to be used as a light baffle.



I then added a thin piece of ply to the bottom of the utility room to serve as a vent register for adjusting airflow with wall mirror clamps. After the vent register slide was in place, I drilled four 2 1/8 inch holes for the vents. As you can see, this slide will vary the amount of air flowing through it-this will allow for better environmental control which in my opinion is key.







I re-installed the lightrails which are mounted to a sheet of plywood and with 1 inch spacers I attached it to the veg chamber ceiling. The ply sheet is 1 inch shorter and 1 inless wide so the air flows around the outer edge of the ply sheet. This works as a light baffle into the utility room. Also, I was able to move the cfl's further apart due to room freed by the removed PVC pipes.




OK, The air path for the veg chamber is complete.

For the flower chamber, I only added a darkroom louver to the floor of the flower chamber.


I removed and patched all pipes and holes. Good ridins to the PVC....If anyone is considering making an NGB cab- reconsider the PVC...takes up space and is a bad idea.

These pics show after the modifications are made. Sorry no pics in progress as I was under the gun to get it finished. This sadly is my excuse for not repainting the box all together. After two years of constant growing, I have made a few spills as you can see.


Anyway, as of last night, I have a shed temp of 74*F with a flower cab temp of 78*F. Right now the flower room is in dark time and I am right at 68.5*F. Veg chamber is is about 80*F when on. A little high but I am still trying to dial in the box with its new configuration.

Anyway, So far the temp issues have been resolved. I think I may even be able to get a 400 w hps in there now.

minds_I

 

[stevr59]

nice work minds, i like it. now can you give us more detail on how you made ur dark room vents. thats right up my alley. and all so i notice at the top of your utility cab what looks like a fan speed control if it is how does it work with the Dayton, and i see you use a 250 instead of the 150 what kind of yield you pulling and how many plants are you running at one time. so far my temps run any where from 6 to 8 degress over ambient and i am still using the pvc pipe which i want to get rid of soon. keep up the good work man

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

Steve, that is a fan speed control... its a solid state ceiling fan control from HD. Works great. The fan I replaced when I did the modifications... the original one is working fine after two years withthe speed control and just needs to be cleaned up and lube the bearings with synthetic oil (as per instructions).

Now for the louvers... I used aluminum 10x6 garage wall vents. I used two vent panels- one next to the other with some space between- I just folded them in half so that hte louvers are back to back. I then used 11/16 x 7/16 pine and made a frame to place the bent louvers in. I made a 3 panel louver. for each chamber. Edit: As you can see, I also used aluminum tape (great stuff) to construct the lighttraps.

When I go to HD I will take a pic of the registers I used....I can't seem to find them on the website.

Edit: I found this link to Lowes- the ones I used were very simillar except they were aluminum and very thin and flimsy. And the size was 14X6 or so.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=65074-33599-ABRGWH146&lpage=none


Caveat: Now I used three of these, each bent and folded over with a small wood frame as a spacer betweeen each panel. The louvers all pointing in the same direction for each panel.

I may not suit your needs as they are no 100% light leak proof. However, for the 8 bux it cost me to make them I feel I got the better deal. Besides I love DIY projects. Aslo, I have room on the other side to place one or more if I feel it is not enough.

minds_I

As to my yield, it varies. about an O a plant sometimes more sometimes less.

At most zI have four plants flowering. Usually at different stages... Ilie to keep a 30 day cycle going.. this keeps me in weed with a variety if I don't screw up the cycle.

 

[I2KanGrow]

Blowers...

Blowers...

Hey Guys... long time, eh???

I think I'm gonna pick-up a few of THESE guys, to play with.

These folks are selling a FLOCK of 'em on Ebay - judging by the dimensions and RPM (and using Dayton's product line as a standard), I'd estimate them at around 120CFM.

Question: Has anyone had any experience w/ controlling speed on a shaded-pole motor? Looks like to do it right (I.E. safely), you really need an autotransformer (like a variac)... anyone???

As they say, "Slow and steady makes the job get done" - I shall return!!!

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

For a shaded pole motor (like whats ina Dayton) you can use a solid state ceiling fan speed control at HD will work....its what I use.

GL

minds_I

edit: after looking at tyhe motor- it is hugh

 

[Guest]

There's a difference between getting something to work and making it work well.

AC Motors run at a multiple of the line frequency so speed control is accomplished by controlling the frequency. A light dimmer chops up the AC waveform to provide reduced average power, this is fine for incandescent lights.

A shaded pole or universal AC motor may be controlled with the light dimmer but it will run hot and noisy.

http://www.act-solutions.com/kingery02.htm

My ceiling fan is connected to a light dimmer and buzzes when it is operating off the dimmer.

 

[I2KanGrow]

You've touched-on what's been both interesting and VERY confusing to me, Red... I've read citations similar to the link you've provided - and reached the same conclusion - that it's line frequency, not amplitude (volts) that's the "ideal method" to control speed in a shaded pole motor... BUT, I'm thinking (hoping, really) that this may not be totally, 100% the only way to "skin that cat" properly.

In short, the real question I'm asking here is... is it ONLY frequency that will "properly and cooly" alter the speed of a shaded-pole motor, or would a lower-voltage, yet clean constant frequency also do the job, eh, "properly and cooly"?

An autotransfomer is, I read in a lot of (other) places, also a recommended way to slow-down an inductive fan, but autotransformers only reduced the amplitude (voltage) of the AC cycle, not frequency (in our case - always 60Hz, Europe, 50Hz) - Your citation clearly shows this, so how would it slow the motor down without creating undesirable heat? Perhaps the "softening effect" of the AC cycle you get w/ the autotransformer would be enough to keep the motor appreciatively cooler then w/ an electronic dimmer???

Perhaps the autotransformer is really just a compromise (because, let's face-it guys... it ain't easy/cheap to alter the frequency of AC!)???? You can buy autotransformers on Ebay for around 10 dollars if you look hard.

As the article you refer to sez, typical electronic dimmers "chop" the sine-wave, effectively turning on-an-off the motor 60 times a second... so, it's no wonder fans get hot, noisy and will fail! I wonder if the same holds true for autotransformers?

So, ideally, one needs to find a (cheap) source of AC variable frequency drives. As an added bonus and extend the logic, it seems that you'd also be able to extract more CFMs from your blower (if needed) by driving the motor faster then 60 Hz... kinda like over-clocking your CPU in your computer, right? Extend the logic farther, throw a thermistor into the mix and you have a variable speed fan that could automatically increase/decrease it's speed based on temperature... that would be neat!!! I really wish that controlling AC frequency wasn't so %$^*% damned expensive!!!

I digress - again!

I find this whole line of conversation relevant, because I believe you would have a very cool-running, very quiet and very safe growbox by purchasing slightly oversized blowers and running them slow (to reduce wind noise and heat), if you could only slow the AC motor down properly.

OK - my head is beginning to hurt - I'm done ranting!!!!

 

[I2KanGrow]

Caveat: Now I used three of these, each bent and folded over with a small wood frame as a spacer betweeen each panel. The louvers all pointing in the same direction for each panel.

You're on to something here, minds_I... what if you do what you're doing here, but turn the "inner louvers" by 90-degrees, wouldn't it then become light-tight???

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

I never said to use a light dimmer...I said a solid state ceiling fan speed controller...it is designed to control fan speeds of shaded pole motors. Cost about 12 bux plus wire and a box and cover. Works great, no humming, no excess heat.

Works with my Dayton 265...although I just changed one out...because I like to replace before things wear out. Non the less, it works fine still after two years of high and low speed adjustments.

The maker is Leviton...check it out for yourself.

But just to be clear...I never said light dimmer.


I2, I thought about that but they are not exactly square so I opted to just try and make it as dark as possible. As you can see I draw fromt he bottom of the cab now andthe other side is pretty dark. I have one more modification to do to satisfy my requirements. I do have a slight glow coming form the bottom of the veg chamber so I am making the statement these are not perfect and you have to play withthem to get them to suit your needs.

minds_I

 

[Guest]

You're right about that, Minds_Eye.

$12 bucks that's it for a speed controller? Man these things were worth a lot a few years ago. I checked on that Levitron unit. It's PWM, it makes a variable frequency out of pulses. That's a Variable Frequency Drive exactly.

Don't use an autotransformer cause it drops the voltage to a point were the load slows down the motor causing it to run hot.

 

[owcmerc]

where'd everybody go? I was really enjoying this thread.

 

[I2KanGrow]

Hey owcmerc:

Funny you should bring this thread back to the top of microgrows - I've been collecting parts & saving cash in order to start planning and building again.
In the immortal words of Ahhnowld:


"I'll be baaack!"

 

[stevr59]

YEAH SEEMED THIS THREAD DIED EVER SINCE DURBIN POSION STOPPED SHOWING UP

 

[owcmerc]

no problem, I am thinking of a ngb set-up and am curious to see the improvements this thread can produce. I like that the ngb can sit in the corner of my basement and look like a cabinet I put paint in or something. I like redgreenery's rubbermaid setup but I think it would be a lot hard to explain if someone got a glance at it. I'm looking for budget-stealth. Good luck, I'm excited to see what you come up with.

 

[drpepper]

Where has DP been anyway..... ? ?