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NGB MicroBox Modifications
- Thread starter I2KanGrow
- Start date
I2KanGrow
Active member
Updates... With a NURSERY!!!
Updates... With a NURSERY!!!
Hi!:
OK - here's some SketchUps that I've been working on, incorporating a baby room.... you'll definitely want to expand these images!
...Babies would live in the upstairs left area (where most make a utility room). This room is the most problematic - there's a lot not to like here! The biggest problem is that I'm fighting physics with air circulation, drawing warm air down, and cool air up. luckily, this room won't generate a huge amount of heat, and is of low volume, so it should be fine.
...Mommies would live directly below, cool air is drawn-into that room from the low-pressure created by a shaded-pole exhaust fan (not shown) in the upper section of the middle area of the box (what I've called the manifold chamber at the top of this thread)... drawn thru the bottom slot, thru the room and exit the slot @ the top.
Both left-side rooms will be lit w/ CFLs.
...The main growroom has similar slots as the mommy room towards the bottom and the top - air is circulated the same way, only mirror-image. Again, this room will be lit w/ a 150W switchable HPS/MH light
In the left image, I slid the top off in order to get a better view of this ventilation scheme, hope this makes things clearer. The backside view has yellow-shaded areas, these areas are covered w/ luan, and made air-tight with silicone sealant beads on all of the partitions in the box. the open areas (low, for cool air intake and high, for warm air exhaust) would be left open, or have a screen placed over the holes. My utility room would more then likely be in the middle section of the "manifold chamber". This area will be painted flat black, to eliminate light reflections. I'm still going to have to come-up w/ some kind of light baffle for the intake.
Please note that all air drawn thru the rooms are scrubbed by the charcoal filter that's set into the floor of the upper section of the "manifold chamber". Also note that the cooltube hood in the growroom has it's very own fan.
Comments??????
Updates... With a NURSERY!!!
Hi!:
OK - here's some SketchUps that I've been working on, incorporating a baby room.... you'll definitely want to expand these images!
...Babies would live in the upstairs left area (where most make a utility room). This room is the most problematic - there's a lot not to like here! The biggest problem is that I'm fighting physics with air circulation, drawing warm air down, and cool air up. luckily, this room won't generate a huge amount of heat, and is of low volume, so it should be fine.
...Mommies would live directly below, cool air is drawn-into that room from the low-pressure created by a shaded-pole exhaust fan (not shown) in the upper section of the middle area of the box (what I've called the manifold chamber at the top of this thread)... drawn thru the bottom slot, thru the room and exit the slot @ the top.
Both left-side rooms will be lit w/ CFLs.
...The main growroom has similar slots as the mommy room towards the bottom and the top - air is circulated the same way, only mirror-image. Again, this room will be lit w/ a 150W switchable HPS/MH light
In the left image, I slid the top off in order to get a better view of this ventilation scheme, hope this makes things clearer. The backside view has yellow-shaded areas, these areas are covered w/ luan, and made air-tight with silicone sealant beads on all of the partitions in the box. the open areas (low, for cool air intake and high, for warm air exhaust) would be left open, or have a screen placed over the holes. My utility room would more then likely be in the middle section of the "manifold chamber". This area will be painted flat black, to eliminate light reflections. I'm still going to have to come-up w/ some kind of light baffle for the intake.
Please note that all air drawn thru the rooms are scrubbed by the charcoal filter that's set into the floor of the upper section of the "manifold chamber". Also note that the cooltube hood in the growroom has it's very own fan.
Comments??????
Last edited:
I2KanGrow
Active member
Hey Durban:
I Finally pulled-away from my designs to look @ yours - I like it! The one thing I'm not so sure of is the bottom intake. In my case it wouldn't work very well, I'm going to have to put this thing on a heavy metal shelf, which would block the hole, I guess legs would raise it enough, however. I like the idea of the fan being surrounded by sound-deadening material, something I think I'll try to incorporate. If you put legs on the bottom of your box, your design begins to look like it would adapt well to a triple-dresser, have you considered using a dresser as a shell?
I think I'm going to line my whole cabinet with reflectix - good reflective qualities, and a bit of sound-deadening... anything will help!
I'm still attempting to wrap my brain around Red_Greenery's back-mounted vent design... this holds a whole lot of promise, and will probably be the best way to go. My biggest problem right now is my skill w/ SketchUp. I'll try to catch-up to you Red!!!!
I Finally pulled-away from my designs to look @ yours - I like it! The one thing I'm not so sure of is the bottom intake. In my case it wouldn't work very well, I'm going to have to put this thing on a heavy metal shelf, which would block the hole, I guess legs would raise it enough, however. I like the idea of the fan being surrounded by sound-deadening material, something I think I'll try to incorporate. If you put legs on the bottom of your box, your design begins to look like it would adapt well to a triple-dresser, have you considered using a dresser as a shell?
I think I'm going to line my whole cabinet with reflectix - good reflective qualities, and a bit of sound-deadening... anything will help!
I'm still attempting to wrap my brain around Red_Greenery's back-mounted vent design... this holds a whole lot of promise, and will probably be the best way to go. My biggest problem right now is my skill w/ SketchUp. I'll try to catch-up to you Red!!!!
DurbanPoison
Member
I2KanGrow - My cab is on casters raising it about 2-3". At the moment I have six 1" holes under the drawer slide and then the 2" PVC from the mother room vented to the flower room. I'm still re-designing though. I too think we can make something more efficient with a backmounted vent design. Good luck with your sktechup training.
I2KanGrow
Active member
Yeah, that'd work! I'm thinking you gotta winner there, Durban!DurbanPoison said:
A question for you, do you own one of those Hanna combo pH/etc. meters - the one in your signature? I'm really pissed-off at my limited-range aquarium pH tester and apparently inaccurate test strips!
If you have one... do you like it??
DurbanPoison
Member
I do have one. I purchased mine from the same company in my sig as they also have en eBay store. The price is slightly cheaper there. I am happy with it, but I suggest going to alternate sources to purchase your calibration solution when the time comes becuause they can be expensive. The meter works great though. I am happy with it. Also - if the probe goes out, you don't have to get a whole new meter. You can just get the diode or whatever it's called for fairly cheap and the unit will operate just like new once again.
G
Guest
Hey guys. Like I said in the other NGB thread I post regularly on PG as Fat Freddy's Cat but I like to lurk over here because of the 150w club thread and these NGB threads. I posted pics of my cab on the other NGB thread. Here is my PG thread link..
http://www.planetganja.com/highsociety/showthread.php?t=36429
I am not an expert on these. I was always an outdoor guy. These grow boxes got me fascinated with an NGB style box. I have done extensive research on lighting and ventilation. Ok so here goes.
Durban is on the right track. He talks about air flow. You know he has read up on it. Like he says you need twice as much intake size as exhaust size. He also talked about air exchange rates on the other thread. The only snafu I can see with yours durban is (if I see this right) is that you have two air intake paths. One in the floor of the main flower chamber and one in the upper left chamber. Whenever you have separate air paths you get involved with a whole bunch of ventilation physics.
The air will follow the path of least resistance. You have to have the exact same size holes for each separate air intake or one will draw more than the other. You also have to have the exact same size cubic demensions of the areas along each airway path or one will draw more than the other.
This is why I went with one continuous air path. This eliminates having one side vent more than another. The air comes in box A down into box C and into box D and out the carbon scrubber. Each chamber gets full ventilation. They have to. No physics delema after the thing is built and you find out you can't overcome the design flaw of 2 separate air paths.
This is why I think I2KanGrow's design is really tricky because it has THREE separate air intake pathways. Have you figured out your total cubic feet of area you are venting and figured out the proper cfm fans you need?
Going along with the "path of least resistance" I think you need a small air mixing fan in each plant chamber. Otherwise the air will make a straight line shot from intake to exhaust in each chamber and not ventilate all the plants. A small fan mixes the air and circulates and vents all the plants.
I also think it adds a lot of flexability to the box if each each plant chamber is vented through the carbon scrubber. This way you could flower in each chamber. Maybe you want to play with a little scrog of some potent, low yielding, long flowering strain but don't want to take up space in the main flower chamber. having them all scrubbed just keeps your options open.
darkroom vents save a lot of space and hassles IMHO.
Ventilation and fan physics are a lot more complicated than I ever imagined.
http://www.planetganja.com/highsociety/showthread.php?t=36429
I am not an expert on these. I was always an outdoor guy. These grow boxes got me fascinated with an NGB style box. I have done extensive research on lighting and ventilation. Ok so here goes.
Durban is on the right track. He talks about air flow. You know he has read up on it. Like he says you need twice as much intake size as exhaust size. He also talked about air exchange rates on the other thread. The only snafu I can see with yours durban is (if I see this right) is that you have two air intake paths. One in the floor of the main flower chamber and one in the upper left chamber. Whenever you have separate air paths you get involved with a whole bunch of ventilation physics.
The air will follow the path of least resistance. You have to have the exact same size holes for each separate air intake or one will draw more than the other. You also have to have the exact same size cubic demensions of the areas along each airway path or one will draw more than the other.
This is why I went with one continuous air path. This eliminates having one side vent more than another. The air comes in box A down into box C and into box D and out the carbon scrubber. Each chamber gets full ventilation. They have to. No physics delema after the thing is built and you find out you can't overcome the design flaw of 2 separate air paths.
This is why I think I2KanGrow's design is really tricky because it has THREE separate air intake pathways. Have you figured out your total cubic feet of area you are venting and figured out the proper cfm fans you need?
Going along with the "path of least resistance" I think you need a small air mixing fan in each plant chamber. Otherwise the air will make a straight line shot from intake to exhaust in each chamber and not ventilate all the plants. A small fan mixes the air and circulates and vents all the plants.
I also think it adds a lot of flexability to the box if each each plant chamber is vented through the carbon scrubber. This way you could flower in each chamber. Maybe you want to play with a little scrog of some potent, low yielding, long flowering strain but don't want to take up space in the main flower chamber. having them all scrubbed just keeps your options open.
darkroom vents save a lot of space and hassles IMHO.
Ventilation and fan physics are a lot more complicated than I ever imagined.
Last edited:
G
Guest
Another thing I want to mention is fan safety. If you are using PC fans this isn't a concern but when using inline fans or good fans like Vortex, Panasonic or Dayton you can't safely add a fan speed reduction device. First NEVER use a dimmer switch meant for a light. You need a fan speed control. But most fans if you read the fine print warn not to use a speed control. They interfere with the motors magnetic field and can overheat. You can get a matched speed control and use it to reduce fan speed up to 25% but no more.
Here are some threads...
http://www.planetganja.com/highsociety/showthread.php?t=34404
The other point of view...
http://www.planetganja.com/highsociety/showthread.php?t=28509
Here are some threads...
http://www.planetganja.com/highsociety/showthread.php?t=34404
The other point of view...
http://www.planetganja.com/highsociety/showthread.php?t=28509
Last edited:
I2KanGrow
Active member
Dahm, Tarzan... I say Dayhmmm - that is one sexy looking growbox!! You've given us a whole lot to think about. I'm not so sure that I can afford the route that you've taken, but your design concepts and safety notes are dead-on!
Time to put all of these good ideas into a concept drawing.... anyone - anyone????
Thanks!!!!
Time to put all of these good ideas into a concept drawing.... anyone - anyone????
Thanks!!!!
I2KanGrow
Active member
Hey Stevr: In SketchUp, click File|Export|2D Graphic, This will bring up a Save As dialog box, select JPEG under type, and save it to whatever directory you upload from.
NOKUY - I'd really like to help you on this one, but since it's my 1st box design, it'll be a learn-as-you-go experience for all of us!!! The good news is - since it's a contained unit, you don't need to deal w/ stealth, just make sure that holes drilled between grow chambers are caulked - don't want any light leaks!
NOKUY - I'd really like to help you on this one, but since it's my 1st box design, it'll be a learn-as-you-go experience for all of us!!! The good news is - since it's a contained unit, you don't need to deal w/ stealth, just make sure that holes drilled between grow chambers are caulked - don't want any light leaks!
G
Guest
Thanks I2KanGrow!
I really love these NGB style boxes. This thread and the others on here are really interesting. Your air intake baffled systen is ingenius. If it could draw the air equally well in all chambers it would be pretty slick.
You and durban really have the NGB fever like I do.
I like the 250w, 150w, cfl and floro grows. Pipedream and his 150w thread got me interested in these types of grows. That thread is awesome. They really get some production from a 150w grow.
I am just completing a separate 150w flower box and then I am going to start putting them to use. I like the idea of multiple small chambers. This way you can have scrog, sog, bushes and also have different strains. Maybe the 150w box can just have some long flower super potent sativa like Original Haze. Low yield, long flower period but super potent. I won't have to worry about it being so long because I can have other shorter flowering period strains in the 250w chamber.
I got some Sensi Star and Deep Chunk for the 250w and some Original Haze and Super Silver Haze to try in the 150w.
NGB style is going to get me some head stash.
I really love these NGB style boxes. This thread and the others on here are really interesting. Your air intake baffled systen is ingenius. If it could draw the air equally well in all chambers it would be pretty slick.
You and durban really have the NGB fever like I do.
I like the 250w, 150w, cfl and floro grows. Pipedream and his 150w thread got me interested in these types of grows. That thread is awesome. They really get some production from a 150w grow.
I am just completing a separate 150w flower box and then I am going to start putting them to use. I like the idea of multiple small chambers. This way you can have scrog, sog, bushes and also have different strains. Maybe the 150w box can just have some long flower super potent sativa like Original Haze. Low yield, long flower period but super potent. I won't have to worry about it being so long because I can have other shorter flowering period strains in the 250w chamber.
I got some Sensi Star and Deep Chunk for the 250w and some Original Haze and Super Silver Haze to try in the 150w.
NGB style is going to get me some head stash.
I2KanGrow
Active member
Hey Guys...
...Check out THIS THREAD, SpacedCWBY has some really good ideas going-on there, especially placement of utilities, and the light-traps!
...Check out THIS THREAD, SpacedCWBY has some really good ideas going-on there, especially placement of utilities, and the light-traps!
Nice CAD work IKan. I wish that I hadn't thrown out my PC that had ACad r14 on it. Would have come in very handy.
Very nice work on the reflector. I've been working on one myself - only made of aluminum.
Thanks for the kinds words about my box build - didn't think that I'd have people using the info. Hope it helps.
Can't wait to see this thing when it's all done.
Spaced...
Very nice work on the reflector. I've been working on one myself - only made of aluminum.
Thanks for the kinds words about my box build - didn't think that I'd have people using the info. Hope it helps.
Can't wait to see this thing when it's all done.
Spaced...
DurbanPoison
Member
Ok guys. I have a new design. Please - tell me if I'm out of my mind. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking, but idunno. Trying to be extra creative here. I'll be posting some sketchups soon.
DurbanPoison
Member
NGB Concept #2
NGB Concept #2
Ok guys here's my latest design. The pictures are a bit small - if anyone wants me to enlarge them, I can do so.
Now what I have done differently is enlarged the entire box. It's now going to be the following:
Overall:
3' Wide x 3' Tall x 2' 5" Deep
Mother Room:
11" Wide x 1' 8" Tall x 2' 5" Deep
Clone Room:
11" Wide x 1' 4" Tall x 2' 5" Deep
Flower Room:
2' 1" Wide x 3' Tall x 1' 10" Deep
Utility Room:
2' 1" Wide x 3' Tall x 7" Deep
Air Vent:
2" Wide x 3' Tall x 7" Deep
[Note: Cabinet will be on casters lifting it approximately 2"]
Now to explain the air flow. I've kind of come back to NGB's original idea to keep negative air pressure and use the same air throughout the design.
The passive air intake is 2"W x 7"L. It begins on the back of the cab on the floor. As it goes up 2", it then turns into the mother's quarters. The next air inlet is on the ceiling of the mothers quarters forcing the air into the clone room. I suppose some time of light blocking device would be necessary, but this is a concept. Anyhow - the air will continue on through the clone room to the back of it on the top where it then goes back into the 'air lock.' Then to prevent light leaks, the air goes down 2" again and then finally flows into the flower room.
Now that you understand the air flow - I'll explain how the plants will still be fine using such. In the mothers room, I will put a small oscellating fan that possibly will be mounted on the ceiling. This will help spread the air around the chamber easily and providing co2 to the plants. Once it's passed thru, it then continues on to the cloning room. Now in the clone room, I will have my clones/seedlings typically under a dome - but there will be a little additional room to put a couple of small seedlings as well. After the air has passed thru the clone room and back into the air-lock, it ends on the west side of the flower room. Now at this air inlet, there will be an additional oscellating fan to blow the air over the plants in the flower room.
Lastly, the air is sucked thru the air-cooled hood/reflector by being sucked into the fan and forcing the air into the utility room via 4" ducting. The air is then cleaned by the carbon scrubber and another small vent near the floor will allow the air to be forced out. The reason I chose the floor was for the following:
A. The ballast and other power devices will be on the floor so they'll be kept cool as the air passes over them on the way out.
B. To assist with stealth. This room will be dark on the inside so no light can possibly escape and the vent easily allows the air to escape.
So what do you guys think? I don't know that this design is what I will end up doing, but I feel that I'm on the right track in simplifying this ventillation beast.
PS. Just thought I would show you all that I hit 60g from 1 plant:
NGB Concept #2
Ok guys here's my latest design. The pictures are a bit small - if anyone wants me to enlarge them, I can do so.
Now what I have done differently is enlarged the entire box. It's now going to be the following:
Overall:
3' Wide x 3' Tall x 2' 5" Deep
Mother Room:
11" Wide x 1' 8" Tall x 2' 5" Deep
Clone Room:
11" Wide x 1' 4" Tall x 2' 5" Deep
Flower Room:
2' 1" Wide x 3' Tall x 1' 10" Deep
Utility Room:
2' 1" Wide x 3' Tall x 7" Deep
Air Vent:
2" Wide x 3' Tall x 7" Deep
[Note: Cabinet will be on casters lifting it approximately 2"]
Now to explain the air flow. I've kind of come back to NGB's original idea to keep negative air pressure and use the same air throughout the design.
The passive air intake is 2"W x 7"L. It begins on the back of the cab on the floor. As it goes up 2", it then turns into the mother's quarters. The next air inlet is on the ceiling of the mothers quarters forcing the air into the clone room. I suppose some time of light blocking device would be necessary, but this is a concept. Anyhow - the air will continue on through the clone room to the back of it on the top where it then goes back into the 'air lock.' Then to prevent light leaks, the air goes down 2" again and then finally flows into the flower room.
Now that you understand the air flow - I'll explain how the plants will still be fine using such. In the mothers room, I will put a small oscellating fan that possibly will be mounted on the ceiling. This will help spread the air around the chamber easily and providing co2 to the plants. Once it's passed thru, it then continues on to the cloning room. Now in the clone room, I will have my clones/seedlings typically under a dome - but there will be a little additional room to put a couple of small seedlings as well. After the air has passed thru the clone room and back into the air-lock, it ends on the west side of the flower room. Now at this air inlet, there will be an additional oscellating fan to blow the air over the plants in the flower room.
Lastly, the air is sucked thru the air-cooled hood/reflector by being sucked into the fan and forcing the air into the utility room via 4" ducting. The air is then cleaned by the carbon scrubber and another small vent near the floor will allow the air to be forced out. The reason I chose the floor was for the following:
A. The ballast and other power devices will be on the floor so they'll be kept cool as the air passes over them on the way out.
B. To assist with stealth. This room will be dark on the inside so no light can possibly escape and the vent easily allows the air to escape.
So what do you guys think? I don't know that this design is what I will end up doing, but I feel that I'm on the right track in simplifying this ventillation beast.
PS. Just thought I would show you all that I hit 60g from 1 plant:
Last edited:
G
Guest
how much cfm does a fan need to pull the air threw the scrubber on any of these designs...im doing sdomehting similar but only have 2 35cfm fans...and id have to use one to blow right on the hps
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