New grow area? maybe underground?

[Guest]

Celsius, Yamaha was considering an under ground Vault so to speak. The engineering, materials, equipment and labor was cost prohibitive, hence I responded to his request with reference to placing containers.

He wanted to buy the land first with the owner carrying the note, build his underground grow and a home later. Now he is considering a steel building. The steel building being the lesser $$$ investment when compared to drawings engineered for his locale, site preparation, concrete, all internals (electrical, AC, interior framing, insulation, and the list goes on. AND we can't forget the labor and equipment needed to erect/complete the job.

I was treating Yamaha's requests as I would any potential customer, finding options that serve his needs and that meet his financial criteria.

Quite honestly, at my age, I have no desire to spend my remaining years in the "Re-Bar Hotel" compliments of the State after being popped with a mega grow that size. A regular house with a normal basement would be my choice. Still I would only grow for myself and my 3 clients that hold state issued medical marijuana cards. Even though we are allowed 18 plants each (there are specifics as to size and development) I only keep 24 girls and 24 babies/clones at any given time, which totals 24 less than the limit set by state law.

Regards,

TyStik

 

[Rattrap]

Its a very tempting idea going underground. I've been tossing round the idea of a much smaller room, bout 5 x 7m (16 x 22 ft).
My car shed is already cut 7ft high into the side of a rising hill. The hill continues up at a reasonable slope. So i figure just cutting into the hill 7m x 7m shouldn't be too much of a problem. Then build the 5 x 7m room, put up a retaining wall then fill it all in. Place a shed up against the new retaining wall with a false door.
I'm not planning on doing this to hide from the cops, only plan on running 10-20 plants max & i know that if they come they will find.
Our main risk here is accidental discovery by visitors. If i can take out that risk i'll happily grow my erb & sleep easy at night.
My easier option is to just put up another shed & fully sound proof it but then u get stuck with the nosy visiting relative who wants to know whats in the shed. Also real sound proofing is much harder to obtain than it is to type.
One of my main concerns is building materials. I had been thinking about just using treated pine posts but i'm concerned about poisionus fumes emmited from the wood.

PS; sorry for the little hijack

 

[MrMortakis$moot]

One of the main problems I see with a steel building is over time the moisture rusting the steel.

Then of course, you will have to have some type of supports in the middle of the roof if you go concrete or steel with a room of that size.

Either way, its going to be on the costly side, but going and having an engineer draw up a plan and have it executed will be the most, but honestly I wouldnt go into an underground structure without an engineer's approval anyways, steel or concrete.

honestly, Im positive there are engineers out there that smoke pot and probably could get away with giving them a bullshit line to have a plan drawn up.... BUT when you start bringing in contractors you will be looking at getting a permit approved.

there is just a bunch of smaller factors that come into play when doing something like this, but of course if you go the steel way perhaps you could line the outside with a sealed plastic moisture barrier, but I would still support the inside in a few places with perhaps some 4x4's or even weld in some steel posts.

It's certainly a great dream... but it would be an even better reality. gluck!

and sorry for the scattered thoughts but It's morning time and the brain is just warming up. lol!

good day peeps!

 

[PharmaCan]

Yamaha, I once owned a backhoe and lived in the boonies - infer what you like from that.

The hole you are talking about is way too big for a backhoe, unless you have a whole lot of time on your hands. An excavator would work better, with a front-end loader like TyStik described being your best best. You might even need a track loader, depending on the soil type.

I did my digging in the Pacific Northwest where we had a unique problem when burying things - they'll float to the surface if you don't weigh them down. It rains so much there that the ground gets saturated and a concrete septic tank buried 3' underground would float right out of the ground unless it had water in it to hold it down.

If you end up burying containers, keep that in mind when doing your planning if you live in an area with a lot of rain, bad drainage, high water table or anything that will let the soil around your project get saturated.

Good luck!

PC

 

[Joe Budden]

Hey Yamaha man I love the idea of an underground op, it would be costly to do right, I have found something that might interest all people here, its an inflatable building, now it's not a balloon, it's made of a new material called 'concrete cloth' when its inflated you simply soak it in water and let it set, pretty awesome, check out the video demo for all information! wat ya guys think?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vv3SII568v0

L8r
JB

 

[yamaha_1fan]

The underground thing is a no go at this point. We do have some other things going on though. There are alot of other options besides going underground and they dont include getting buried under a ton of dirt.

That concrete shelter is pretty cool.

 

[Lord Doobie]

I've thought the same thing as I'm sure many have
rent a back hoe...
bury a couple of old worn out travel trailers you can get for nothing
board up the windows and cut a trap door...lol...like hogan's heros with the tree stump...ha ha

a rat turned me in to get off his charges

classic...

 

[TGT]

You have to be very careful to support the ceiling extremely strong as the soil on top is heavier than you might think. They say 1 foot deep of soil is the same weight as three feet of water. Extra support will definetely be needed and it is best to go with metal beams or a concrete system. Wood can be done, but great care must be taken. A cave in could be bad for the plants lol.

TGT

 

[Lord Doobie]

They say 1 foot deep of soil is the same weight as three feet of water.

Dood, by spreading info like this, it's no wonder you have a bag on your head

 

[donny darko]

Tgt is pretty close on the soil weight issue. You have to think that it is just not soil, the soil will be saturated with water during rain periods adding to the weight unless you just cover with gravel that will expels water rapidly.

peace darko

 

[donny darko]

Yamaha
My family is in general construction and is going to be building a 40x 60 foundation with a concert roof that will be buried just like you were talking about. Well the price is going to be between 50 – 55 K and that will be with 8 inch poured concert walls and a six inch poured roof loaded with rebar and it still needs some real big steel I beams under the concert roof for additional support. A guy from NYC city is moving here and having it built and it has been engineered out buy a structural engineer. It will then be covered with soil and grass or roof top garden. The nice thing is that I will have a free set of plans to go off from in the future. The container idea is a lot more doable for an attempted diy but do not try and lift one of those containers with a backhoe or you will end up on your side. If you have any questions just let me know as I have a lot of experience in equipment operation and commercial building.

peace darko

 

[Tokin_Jo]

We bought 7 acres in the boondocks, town does not even have a police department. We set the site back 600ft from the main road. Hubby's best freind owns an excavator. 30 x 40 bunker will be started in the spring. No time for outdoors next year. Can't say what will be topside, stealthy though. We also plan to add atleast 6kw gridty solar system.

 

[jakeh]

As many threads on this subject you never see anyone talk about insulated concrete forms. Just did a search on youtube and came up with this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN92ZUOuLhQ
Did a little more research on the area and it is barely above sea level. I dont know how the hell they dig a hole that deep at that elevation and keep it dry but apparently it works. The forms are styrofoam lego blocks that fit together like lego blocks with a 4-6" space filled with rebar or some other reinforcement for the concrete. It looks like it goes together quickly once the hole is dug. Once they put up the bracing to keep the styrofoam form from blowing out they call in the cement truck and pour it. All the electrical conduits are already in the forms. The r-value is incredible as well. I saw them at a home building show years ago and they(polysteel) claimed you could put a basement almost anywhere. One of the the problems they have is people not familiar with them want to put the same tonnage of ac you use with stick construction but apparently you only need 1/2 the heating and cooling of stick. Just google icf and sip construction.

 

[donny darko]

Jakeh
Those forms are slick and fast and ready to go to finish the basement. But what you have to watch out for is not the walls but the concrete roof/ floor that rests on top of the walls and the I beams and deck pans. If I was going with those forms I would go with at least 10 inch cylinders and a good bit off rebar. I always thought it would be a good idea to have a house that appeared to be slab on grade thus not having a basement according to records and appearance but with a full foundation with 10-12 foot ceilings and radiant heating put in the basement floor and the “house floor”. No heat sig and know one would ever know it’s there if you keep your mouth shut, mix that with some off the grid power supply to supply the grow or at least off set most off the usage.

peace darko

 

[Kwigybo]

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but I was just wondering if it is possible to build, say, a 12x12 or maybe a 20x20 underground room with steel beams and wood?

 

[s13sr20det]

Hey Yamaha man I love the idea of an underground op, it would be costly to do right, I have found something that might interest all people here, its an inflatable building, now it's not a balloon, it's made of a new material called 'concrete cloth' when its inflated you simply soak it in water and let it set, pretty awesome, check out the video demo for all information! wat ya guys think?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vv3SII568v0

L8r
JB

cool video

 

[Grønn]

Anyone thinking about going underground should read this book

how_to_build_your_own_underground_home

Here's a link to a torrent of it:

http://btjunkie.org/torrent/How-To-Build-Your-Own-Underground-Home/4495cc123d2461163c6da603d589d6d536f9c432baed

Basically a book written by a guy that built his own underground home - made a few mistakes along the way - and learned from them.

Even if u don't want to build your own bunker it's still a good read.

 

[Lazyman]

Good thread, I've had a similar idea. SOmeone told me once that underground construction costs roughly half what above-ground does, so I was thinking a 3K square foot basement under a 2-3K house for a "build" project. But thats way down the list of steps, I was thinking:

Buy remote patch of land, drill a well, start outdoor grow (legal/medical, mostly worried about rippers)
Add roads, power, gates, security, and trees if needed.
Then build an outbuilding, 40X60 is plenty, for indoor crops over winter.
THen get a big diesel genny
Next spring, get one of the auto-darkening greenhouses (forever flowering greenhouse)
Then build your custom/underground setup, used for winter crops and the greenhouse for the summer crops (and full-season girls in half of it.)
Then get your solar panels, water wheel, escape hatch, arsenal, etc
Then sell the whole lot years later for double your investment
Move to central or south america and buy a house on the beach and smoke/drink beer all day until you die.

 

[carhartt]

A 40 foot container weighs roughly 7K pounds I was able to slide one around and get it in place with a 5K pound toyota forklift and steel beams for it to slide on. As far as building an underground structure 40X60 is probably a bit much for the average DIYer, but I have often thought it would be a great place to grow. The soil around the structure typically around 60 degrees year round below 6' in depth would help cool the interior space. I am a civil engineer and have designed a few variations of my underground growroom.

If it were my build I would go all concrete with the roof being part of the floor for an above ground shop and have a remote operated floor/elevator in a closet using in-wall winches or possibly hydraulics. It would be nice to use geothermal wells to cool the room and along with CO2 production and hidden plumbing/electrical in the foundation of the above ground shop you could have a completely sealed environment. I have a few more ideas for security/privacy that I wont post for the prying eyes of LEO but I believe given a substantial budget of around 50k I could build an undetectable undergound chamber.

Or if you got the cash start a winery and dig caves to age your wine

Sorry this was a bit of a rant, but if anyone has questions about materials and sizing of members, I could provide some input.

 

[s13sr20det]

Anyone thinking about going underground should read this book

how_to_build_your_own_underground_home

Here's a link to a torrent of it:

http://btjunkie.org/torrent/How-To-Build-Your-Own-Underground-Home/4495cc123d2461163c6da603d589d6d536f9c432baed

Basically a book written by a guy that built his own underground home - made a few mistakes along the way - and learned from them.

Even if u don't want to build your own bunker it's still a good read.

it is. ive been reading it off and on for the past few days.
theres another one they avertise for in mother earth news. how to build an undergound house by malcolm wells. im gonna order it because i cant find it online or at my local bookstore.

while looking up earthbag houses the other day i came upon this.

http://earthbagbuilding.com/emergency/emergencyshelter.htm