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New grow area? maybe underground?

G

Guest

Operating a backhoe is kinda like playing a piano or a video game, the operator watches the bucket while his fingers(s) play the hydraulic controls/joy stick. Hand-eye coordination. Rent a small BH and practice, practice and practice some more until your moves are fluid and smooth. Check out Hertz or other large rental outfits and they quite often will provide some guidance.

As to the pit, a finished layer of 3/4 minus crushed rock, graded level and compacted (rent a plate compactor) to a thickness of 8" to 12" will give a solid base. Dig out 4 holes of 24" x 24" by 12" deep in the compacted gravel, form it above finished grade with 2 x 4's, lay in #4 re-bar, 3 each, both ways and place the concrete. Make sure the Re-bar does not make contact with the soil to avoid rust out and degradation of the concrete AND equally important is insuring the finished pads are on the same plane (level to one another) Locate these 4 pads on center at each corner bearing point of the cargo container.

Burying old railroad ties is not a good choice. Remember that the Road Bed they were salvaged from is an elevated gravel base with excellent drainage. Also the have cancer causing carcinogens in the creosote preservative, which by the way is quite depleted by the time they replace them. My experience with them in the Mojave Desert was that Termites will go to work on the weak points and decay follows, when Buried, as in fence posts and decorative landscape applications. The concrete base pads will prevent settling of the load at the weight bearing points.

Regarding the BH, just tell the folks at the rental outfit you are setting a storage tank and want a BH that is capable of lifting the weight of the container. No need for a ramp. There is a compactor attachment for the Hoe, back fill evenly with the front bucket, in layers, turn the Hoe around and avoiding contact with the container walls evenly compact the dirt. Don't get carried away and crack or buckle the container. Continue this procedure until you have reached the desired fill depth. Before filling in above the container roof lay in a heavy 6mil or so vapor barrier extending at least 5 feet beyond the pit, cover with rock free soil or sand (to avoid tearing the barrier) and use the plate compactor, not the BH attachment for final compaction.. Gently mound the soil to aid in run off and plant some grass.

A BH of the size needed would be site delivered and picked up by the Rental Outfit. Make sure the container is not within view when they deliver, and not exposed when they pick up.

After they are gone dig out to the roof, cut out the roof for a trapdoor ( ii is best if this is already done), install it and fill in. Don't forget to overlap additional vapor barrier before doing so.

Safety is important, hold back on undisturbed soil before setting the out riggers and load the front bucket with dirt to keep the nose down in the event you get a little shakey(sp). A bouncing load is not good, especially when the hoe is extended, the leverage can dump You and the Rig into the work. Buy rental insurance.

When done put a modest sized storage shed over the trapdoor so your comings and goings are not suspicious to prying eyes. This is definitely a case where keeping the lips zipped really has meaning.

I hope this is of help to you Yamaha.

TyStik
 

clowntown

Active member
Veteran
20' containers is the way to go for this application. You can buy new and used ones of various quality at reasonable prices.

It's not really uncommon for people to have containers delivered to non-commercial/industrial locations. Even empty ones. You simply hire a trucking company to pick up the purchased empty container from the container yard (or where ever it's at), to be dropped at your location for you to use and/or load.

Non-industrial / shipping people use containers for all sorts of things, including: loading their personal belongings to send offshore (leisure items like cars & boats, or relocating to another country, etc), loading small business merchandise to ship offshore, or even using the container for on-site storage (this is common!).

Due to the imbalance in (particularly containerized) international trade (the U.S. imports a lot more than it exports), and the fact that it's not cost-effective to ship empty containers back to their shipping origins, it's very common for used containers to be sold for cheap and used for non-shipping uses such as storage. They're very popular in the construction industry, for example.

They don't weigh much less than their steel counterparts, but it's also possible to find aluminum containers if for some reason you wanted that.

If you wanted to get real fancy and had a way to power and vent it, you could bury a reefer (refrigerated container) and have a sealed, A/C'd buried room! :headbange Although I imagine maintenance on the chiller unit could be a royal PITA. I wonder how cool the containers would maintain, underground?
 
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As far as getting the container in the hole, I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to fab up some sort of platform with wheels so you can move it easily. Whip out the arc welder and DIY :rasta:. Seriously, though.. make one platform for the back of the container to sit on with wheels. Hook the front up to a big ass backhoe or something of the sort and wheel 'er on into the hole. Dig the hole with ramps on both side so you can get it down the hole, unhook it, then drive the backhoe straight up the other ramp and fill 'er in.

This way, the only people you're depending on is the people to deliver the container to the property, and the people that you're renting the heavy equipment from. As long as you're competent with heavy machinery, you really shouldn't have a problem.
 
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twojoints

Member
why not just dig your own hole and use a bunch of concrete blocks for the walls? certainly you could build a wooden roof a few feet below the surface, then pour concrete on top of that. as long as you put rebar in the concrete it will be plenty strong enough.
 
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Y

yamaha_1fan

all very good ideas. Cool beans. Gives me some things to think about
 
G

Guest

PurplePotion, when you start digging compacted soil and piling the fluffed dirt up it becomes a great big pile. When we built in ground B-40 tanks for coolants at the Solar Energy Generating Facilities #5, # 6 and #7 (SEGS) at Harper Lake, California (Luz Engineering) I used a Cat 10 yard articulated front loader to ramp and dig. The piles were subsequently turned (making dirt) to mix the stratified layers before back filling and compaction. The methods offered Yamaha are the easiest and most economical approach. I like building to the customers specs and proceed in a preplanned way that doesn't run over budget.

In construction you are in the business of finishing and moving on, not making the job last as long as you can as in Government employment. The companies that are efficient, on time or ahead of schedule and finish to the specs in the Project Manual are the ones that succeed. Those that don't, get bad Reputations, and fold their tents or move out of state and screw someone else.

Yamaha's job need not be fancy, only well planned in advance before a shovel of dirt is turned. "Those that fail to plan can plan to fail". It happens every day on the face of this earth, and usually by the greedy contractor or the inexperienced DIY GUY.

TyStik
 
G

Guest

Nite Tiger, Thanks---------

Twojoints, NOT!!!!! Not only from a safety stand point, it would also Cost more money and Yamaha would wind up with an unprofessional sh*t job. "The Money Pit" he does not need, just a Pit to put his proposed inexpensive shipping container in. By the way, those containers are water proof designed and built to withstand transport, on deck, in high seas and in a salt water environ.

With respect,

TyStik
 
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NiteTiger

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright...
Veteran
Ok, quick question, and I apologize in advance to yamaha for jacking his thread.

We've gotten great info on burying containers and building larger underground bunkers, which obviously have a certain challenge inherent in the construction. However, if I just wanted to do something on the order of 12 x 10, would it be as complicated?

I was just wanting to rent a backhoe, and do block walls. What are the things I need to be thinking about here?

Once again yamaha, sorry to hijack
 
G

Guest

Whoodi--it's all in the design, I will discuss with Yamaha, by way of a PM, the stealth procedures he can utilize to eliminate a specific heat signature. Obviously a post in the Forums would tell the whole LEO community what to look for.

Regards,

TyStik
 
Y

yamaha_1fan

twojoints said:
why not just dig your own hole and use a bunch of concrete blocks for the walls? certainly you could build a wooden roof a few feet below the surface, then pour concrete on top of that. as long as you put rebar in the concrete it will be plenty strong enough.

I thought about that.

2 things:

1 The weight load of all that dirt is huge. A structure 40x60 buried 5 feet down would carry a load of 1.2 MILLION pounds. I would damn sure want an engineer to design that cause I wouldnt get under it otherwise.

2 You would need to bring in outside trades. Laborers to put up the brick, build the forms, concrete trucks, etc. Too many people and I have already considered this before I posted this topic. Otheriwse you would be building this for 3 years by yourself.

I have been scouring the MLS for some property nearby. Maybe when the time comes, I can get someone to owner finance a property. It seems like I could put up a steel building alot easier and fairly cheap. I have a quote on a 40x60 steel building fully insulated for around $16K. Of course there may be some features left off, plus labor to build and a concrete foundation. But still not bad. Plus ALOT easier to explain then 5-6 storage containers or an underground bunker
 
Y

yamaha_1fan

wow lots of posts while I was typing mine and looking up steel buildings.

Hey Ty good info. Thanks

NT no problem. Kind of was hoping this thread would attract some attention and bring out some ideas

I think in the steel building hiding a flir signature wouldnt be hard. If you built rooms within the building and left a 12" gap between the rooms and outside walls, theree would be an air gap. Lots of air movement would make the whole structure look like one temp versus different hot spots
 
Y

yamaha_1fan

whodi said:
Underground, secret rooms... can't they all be detected with a warrant and a drug dog?

Anyways, heres one hell of an underground cave full of plants... dunno how they got caught: http://www.onmarijuana.com/2007/04/03/the-great-tennessee-marijuana-cave/

stealing electric. I believe they tapped into a main power line after they already had to have the outside transformer upgraded. I do believe in paying your bill but when your house is pulling 4-500 amps, another option may be in order
 
G

Guest

NT---Nearly all of the construction principals of a 40 x 60 underground would apply, only on a smaller scale from a $$$ standpoint.

Yamaha----if you like fresh air and your freedom, keep it smaller. Your proposition, if found out would likely be turned over to the Feds for prosecution. Of course I hear the food and housing are a little bit better at the Marion, Ill., Leavenworth, Ks., or Sheridan, Or., Federal Bureau of Prison Detention Facilities.

Be safe my friend,

TyStik
 

Grizz

Active member
Veteran
soil conditions , ie.. rock calichee(sp) building permits (ya right) running elect, waterproofing, flood pumps, concealed entrance, ? tunnel or whatever, secrecy, pouring a strong enough roof to hold up back fill, strong enough walls to hold roof, compaction of back fill and correct drainage away from bunker.In my opion a hill side would be the best place to do this method. that would allow for digging straight into hill side , building room or placeing container, and back filling would be a simple task and drainage very easy to control. Also cooling is still going to be a problem as well as exaust air. thats all I can think of tiger but as you already know theres always something poping up.
 

NiteTiger

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright...
Veteran
I've gone over the problems with that cave in detail when that bust first went down, but I'll recap here, see if you can spot the problem.

Bought land that was a popular recreation spot - specifically, the cave. Then they built a million dollar house on top of the cave, in an area where most homes are sub $100k. Then they didn't even to put furniture in said million dollar house. But hey, they did pop for an upgraded commercial transformer on the pole. Y'know, the house no one was living in?

Somehow, this empty house was using so much power that it overloaded the transformer, so they decided to tap straight into the lines, causing brown outs in the town.

The question was never HOW did they get caught, the question is who did they pay to keep going for 5 years :biglaugh:

Seriously, if you're dropping all that dough, why not go ahead and pop for some Goodwill furniture and slice off 30k for a 75kw generator? Idiots, like I said :D
 

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