New grow area? maybe underground?

[yamaha_1fan]

I am starting to think of where I am going to move my grow op to. Currently in the house and it needs to go.

I have been considering acquiring some land, 5 acres minimum. Land here is not too bad. From that point, I am looking at two options. Trying to find something with a seperate workshop or a house with a big unfinished basement. I really dont want to it in the house/living areas as I prefer a nice open layout to work with instead of different sized rooms, etc.

Or go underground. One of my grandest plans has been to build an underground structure like a basement with a concrete slab and concrete walls, either from blocks or poured walls. Then I was thinking of making a concrete ceiling for it so the whole structure could be underground, and support the earthload on top. But w/o any real building skills of this sort, I would be SOL. Plus I would have to bring in outside trades to pour the concrete, design the structure, etc and I would have to explain why the hell I was building this underground fortress. And it would cost a ton of money.

Recently I have thought about burying some storage containers. This seems like a much easier task that I could DIY. Rent a backhoe, learn how to use it, dig my hole, maybe fille the hole with some crushed rocks for drainage, drag the containers in with the backhoe, and bury them. I wouldnt have them too deep, just enough to cover them up, maybe a foot of dirt over them. Then put a shed on top and make an entrance. If I put 5 containers next to each other, I cut could a hole in each one and basically weld some metal to make doorways from container to container.

I have seen a few discussions on going underground back on OG but havent seen this touched here at ICmag at all. The biggest issue from what I remember is water and keeping it from touching the structure

I know this all seems far fetched but I do need to start making a plan for the next 6-9 months once I have the money to do it.

So lets talk about this or any other ideas for going big. If you had 30-50k where would you go?

 

[Guest]

I would just buy some land with a house on it, house would have to have a basement. then hopefully be secluded enough that you can do a basement grow and a outdoor grow =)

 

[snadge]

That is my idea also.

I'm in the running for a derelict farm in the wilds of scotland and will be living in a caravan whilst I do it up.

I'll be buying 2 shipping containers to keep my furniture and everything in whilst I do the work and burying one in the land next to the house as my grow rooms.

I'm going to cover it with fibreglass before burying to protect it from moisture.

You also need pumps for the drains.

main thing to remember is when you are digging the hole for it, for every meter you go down, go outwards 2 meters otherwise you stand the chance of the sidewalls caving in, very dangerous and when they do go they give no warning.

Also the soil that you remove from the hole, stack away from it at least 2 meters from the proposed edge of the final hole.


good luck.

 

[NiteTiger]

Hey Yamaha Fan, who hasn't given an underground grow a though or hundred?

I've been looking at it too, of course. Shipping container is definitely an option, although I'd go deeper with it. Those shipping containers are stacked on top of each other constantly, the weight of a few feet of soil isn't gonna crush it. There's a grow on here in an underground shipping container, by BudBunker, I think his name was.

After considering though, I think I'm going to go with reinforced concrete for underground. Explaining it isn't anything - it's a storm cellar. With the number of tornadoes hitting the news recently, it's a free pass Even having power and water run to it wouldn't raise an eyebrow, although I'd do those myself, just to make sure.

But for the structure, I wouldn't blink - "I need an estimate on a 12 x 12 storm cellar, please"

For a bonus, get ya a place with year round water flow, and spend a few bucks on the ready to go hydro generators (they look like trolling motors ).

I'm planning on doing that when I buy a house, whether I grow or not. I like living out in the country, but power goes out often, and I like my gadgets, not to mention heat and a/c, too much to wait on the local power company to get it running again LOL

Not much more cost wise than a good back up genny system anyway. Well, not TOO much more

 

[yamaha_1fan]

12x12 may be explainable but I am looking at a bigger space 40x60. And I would want the structure concreted on 4 sides where as basements are usually concrete on 3 sides, with one side being framed. Then how would you cover it and bury it?

I thought about how they stack containers but the load is usally put on the ends and posts of the container. The skin of the container is not nearly as strong. I remember reading that

 

[NiteTiger]

True, the load is focused on the storage containers. I'm still betting they wouldn't cave under a few feet, but you're right, that's not a bet I'm willing to lose LOL

40 x 60, hmmmm...

Multi-family storm shelter Actually not too unusual.

Hell, buddy of mine just had an underground garage done. Guy doing it didn't bat an eye.

You could also follow the old maxim of not letting any one contractor do the whole thing. Most of 'em don't give a flip anyway, as long as they get paid LOL

 

[yamaha_1fan]

my father in law is a welder and he also knows how to build concrete forms. Maybe he could help. He'll do anything for a 6 pack of coors light

Then I would just need the concrete trucks to pump the concrete

A cubic foot of top soil weighs 75-100 pounds. a 20x8 trailer buried 3 feet deep would require 480 cubic feet of soil for a total load of 48,000 pounds.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_1_cubic_yard_of_top_soil_weight

 

[NiteTiger]

Well hell, there ya go I'd even pop for a case

And you can buy truckloads of concrete, and they just dump it where you point. You'll wanna spend the extra bucks and get them to send laborers too, tho.

 

[yamaha_1fan]

I am hoping someone with some builing experience can chime in and say how hard would it be to do this and make a concrete ceiling so the whole structure would be underground.

Did your buddy make the roof concrete too and bury it?

 

[Mr Celsius]

I'll put this simply: There is a hard way and an easy way to do things; its up to you.

You could just buy a house with a basement and act like you don't have a basement... kinda like blazeoneup's room for your doorway.

Ask yourself, what advantages are there really for doing all that craziness? Cops? They would just find it when they went to bust you. Trust me, round here they busted a guy for some stuff, went into his house.... underneath.... 48k in lights.

 

[NiteTiger]

Yeah, whole shebang is underground. I'm not sure if the roof is actually concrete or not, although I believe it is. I'll have to ask some more details next time I get by there.

 

[Grizz]

I dont know where you live but here in the southwest usa we have pre cast concret. all you would have to do is use block with plenty of rebar and grout in the walls and see if you could get some of ther reject double tee's for the roof. Its what they use for parking garages here, only draw back is you would deffinatly need a crane to set them. The other option is block walls then build false ceiling support using saffold type bracing and plywood deck, place rebar on top of deck and pour your roof this way. all very costly. A hidden basement is much cheaper, with a wood ceiling

 

[Blunted22]

i knew some biker that bought semi trailor and buried it grew out of it for a year made over 500k e z.....

Hey yamaha i know that electric bills are what u make them but can i ask the square footage of your house that your running 9k out of...? i ask this cause i got a 1500sqft house that im running 5k + out of bill runs aroudn 275$ but i need more light and im just scared cuase i know everyone around me runs about 100-150$ bills.... im running double or more then everyone else.... but its only 5k and my rooms im rigging are 2400w per room (2 rooms) and that with no AC and no fans...


Everyone just says pay your bill on time i know i know but still gets me nervous since im always at this damn house.... -=P

 

[Grizz]

i knew some biker that bought semi trailor and buried it grew out of it for a year made over 500k e z.....

Hey yamaha i know that electric bills are what u make them but can i ask the square footage of your house that your running 9k out of...? i ask this cause i got a 1500sqft house that im running 5k + out of bill runs aroudn 275$ but i need more light and im just scared cuase i know everyone around me runs about 100-150$ bills.... im running double or more then everyone else.... but its only 5k and my rooms im rigging are 2400w per room (2 rooms) and that with no AC and no fans...


Everyone just says pay your bill on time i know i know but still gets me nervous since im always at this damn house.... -=P

blunted I was averageing 400 a month where im at and thats about double for where im at. I got busted recently and it wasent because of my elect. bill. the narcs asked me how much my bill had been running, so they had no idea about my usage, a rat turned me in to get off his charges. I wouldent go to much more than your using now, just to be safe.

 

[Guest]

50K won't go very far on a 40 x 60 below grade concrete or concrete and CMU block structure. It will take skilled heavy equipment operators, rod benders, crane, earth movers, compactors, concrete pumper truck and the list goes on. The cost of concrete alone is $$$$$$$$. Other than the straight runs of re-bar all of the specialized hoops and shapes are fabricated in a fab shop. Depending on spans and weight loads the re-bar would likely exceed #6 (3/4 inch diameter). and would probably be in 2 layers for the ceiling.

Electrical, ventilation, sump pumps for flooding, ----------and so on.

Don't forget the cost of a Project Engineer, it's not a DIY thing when the job reaches this magnitude.

Industrial strength from start to finish. Buried containers with an external coating of a rust inhibiting sealant is substantially cheaper.

In 2003 I worked on a sewer plant facility, start to finish, building digester tanks w/o a ceiling, of the approximate dimensions of your proposed underground build. It started in July and finished in October. It took a lot of skilled construction tradesmen with 6 day 10 hour shifts with 3 off to recuperate to accomplish the task.

TyStik

 

[yamaha_1fan]

Thanks Ty. I was hoping you would pop in. I was trying to compare this to the cost of a basement. Around here, a basement adds 20-30k to the cost of building a house. I wasnt figuring the cost of ventilation, electrical, etc as I would do all that myself. Obviously I would have to plan for it as to leave some holes in the concrete for it though.

I think the underground concrete structure may be out of my league and just plain overkill. A guy can dream right ???

Lets go back to something more realistic like the containers. How hard is it to operate a backhoe or a device that would dig deep enough to bury a contaner? Is it possible to use the backhoe to drag the container? How could I drag the containers into the hole? I would think building a hole with a ramp and dragging them down from the other side outside the hole would be a good idea.

The tare mass of containers may vary due to the different construction techniques and materials used in the container. A 20' x 8.5' dry cargo container may weigh 1,800 kgs. to 2,400 kgs., a 40' x 8.5' may weigh 2,800 kgs. to 4,000 kgs, and a 40' x 9.5' may weigh 3,900 kgs. to 4,200 kgs. Some dry cargo containers may fall outside the indicated weight range. The reefer weighs more than a dry cargo container of the same size.

So this container would weigh between 4-10K pounds. Thats alot of weight to move around

What would need to be done in the hole to put the containers in? I was thinking of maybe some crushed rock, then maybe some railroad ties to keep the container off the ground?

I am thinking underground for total security. It may also be easier for me to buy some land than it will be to buy a house. The land is cheaper and the owners may be more willing to owner finance than someone with a home. I will never be able to finance a house conventionally in the next 2-3 years.

Blunted, my bill was 400-500 during the summer before I grew. it may touch a grand with all lights on. But my neighborhood has some bigger houses and then smaller houses down the road. It would be hard to compare to anything but our own previous usage. Not really worried about it.

 

[eLiguL]

Shipping containers come in two standard sizes, 20' and 40'. To move one around your gonna need a crane and to dig the hole your gonna need heavy machinery. Dragging a metal container that is well over a ton will destroy your hole without a doubt, maybe even the container.

To do all this without raising any eyebrows will be next to impossible unless you have no neighbours for miles. Even then, you would have to come up with a story for the people you are renting the equipment from. Then we have to deal with the issue of the containers caving in and the electrical wiring in the middle of no where.

Might be a better idea to buy a house and have contractors come in to make secret rooms. You can tell him your into that stuff and you like hidden rooms and gadgets, a panic room of sorts or a bomb shelter. I think that story will float better than explaining why you need a backhoe and a crane with 2 shipping containers in the middle of no where.

Either way I am very impressed by your ambition. I know your not the type to ask and not follow through. I hope you find something suitable for your situation.

 

[yamaha_1fan]

I looked up Budbunkers thread and it seems like he was blessed with the containers already in place. So that thread isnt of much use in how to get the container buried

 

[Grizz]

I looked up Budbunkers thread and it seems like he was blessed with the containers already in place. So that thread isnt of much use in how to get the container buried

It depends alot on your groud conditions. If its good digging you can rent a frontend loader and dig a 3 sided hole, back container truck into hole and drop it there, 1 2 3 side by side whatever. water proof them , wire and do all your prep work then back fill. compaction is a must, all very expensive, so many cheaper options but to each his own.

 

[NiteTiger]

What cheaper options are you referring to Josey?