need some advice please guys...

[Guest]

hey there guys... this plant is about 40-50 days in...and i don't know the finish time but she looks to be 70+, but she is starting to yellow and I don't like it to be honest ...I feed with pure blend pro, and at the start of flower i top dressed with worm castings...she greened up nicely, then I put more ontop just about 5 days ago, she still isn't showing improvement... anyone wanna give me a go at what def. they think it is, and what I should do...thanks!

 

[AlwaysLearning]

A safe bet for most strains is around 8 weeks, sativas can go longer, the fatness of the leaves suggests to me this is more of an indica, in which case your plant is almost finished blooming. At this point I would not add any more nutes, just some ph balanced water and maybe a little Super Thrive for a few more days, making sure only clear water is there for the last week or so.

I hope this is helpful,

-Always Learning

 

[HeadyPete]

A flowering plant has no need for nitrogen so a grower reduces the nitrogen during flowering. The plant will use the nitrogen from it's lowest leaves first and as a result those leaves will yellow. This is quite normal for flowering. You don't want to have green foliage at the end.

You pics, however, may indicate the beginning of a nute lock up or a lack of calcium/magnesium. Cannabis uses quite a bit of both and most "complete" fert formulas lack enough of these secondary nutrients. PureBlend, however, appears to include them so it is more likely nute-lock. What is the ph of the drained water from the bottom of the pot? Perhaps add some dolomite lime to your soil mix next round to help buffer PH. Most times leaves damaged by fert problems will not repair themselves, even when problem is corrected. You need to observe new growth and make sure it is healthy looking.

One more question. What ProBlend are you using? If it is not the soil formulation than that might be your problem. PureBlend Pro gro and bloom are formulated as hydro-organic nutes for hydro systems and are different than nutes for soil. They make a PureBlend Pro Soil for that.

At this point I would flush well with plain water from here on in and keep an eye on your trichomes for maximum ripeness!

Good luck and keep us updated.

Peace.

 

[Guest]

well...IMO this is not normal yellowing...actually I know for a fact it's not... the pH "should" be on point since I measure it up to a 6.3-6.4 everytime I water... I can test the runoff next time I water, but i can't right now... she is under a 600 watter cool tubed and in fox farm ocean forrest/light warrior mix...

 

[Rubberband Man]

^I dont think I know as much as this guy. I dont know anything about calcium or magnesium lock.

I will say this though. No superthrive. Why would you put vitamin B into this plant right now? Superthrive = far more harm than good at this stage.

Also, it looks like you have lots of white pistils. So looks like maybe you have another couple weeks? Looks like a Nitrogen deficiency so for their next watering I'd give them some light N, and I think you'll see an improvement. Underfertilize though to be safe.

If it's nute lock like Heady says it is, the bud growth should be stalling too (from my experience). Is the bud growth stalling at all or is it doing as good as ever?

 

[Guest]

im with you rubberband man..it DEF. needs more time its' gonna go 70+ it's got panama red genetics in it...it's gonna go LOL, and she stretched like 3x at the start of 12/12 just screams everything about going long heheh...well... i also thought it was a N def. too but wouldn't the worm castings i applied still be working after only like 3 weeks? especially since I still feed with my pure blend... and the bud growth is still good, no slowdown i have noticed...

 

[MynameStitch]

Needs some nitrogen in her feedings now, she has used stored nutrients, bloom ferts generally has low levels of nitrogen because flowering cannabis plants use small amounts in flowering. So using bloom ferts does not have enough to sustain them all the way through flowering so supplimenting them with small doses weekly with your bloom fert should work all the way up till harvest. Also making sure you don't switch to bloom ferts right when you enter flowering, you should always wait at least a week before switching over to a bloom nutrient. So using your veg nutrient for the first week of flowering will help give the plant enough to survive as long as you give it small amounts with your bloom fert when you feed.

Fish emulsion would work, damaged leaves will not recover so look to the other leaves to see if you are feeding enough nitrogen.

I would not use more than 1 tsp per gallon of water

If you are a week or 2 from harvest I would not bother fixing it, but at least you know what is wrong and how to prevent it......
I can't tell from the picture if the buds are nearly done or not.....
would have to have a close up or the buds to tell you that

 

[Guest]

thanks stitch...i appreciate your time...I was also thinking it was N def. and you think i should use the emulsion instead of the castings? even though the emulsion is a high # of N???? the plant has about 2-3 more weeks...and IMO i need to fix it, because it gets worse by the day and the buds will stop growing because this has happened to me before....

 

[HeadyPete]

well...IMO this is not normal yellowing...actually I know for a fact it's not... the pH "should" be on point since I measure it up to a 6.3-6.4 everytime I water... I can test the runoff next time I water, but i can't right now... she is under a 600 watter cool tubed and in fox farm ocean forrest/light warrior mix...

Your flowering buds do not need any more nitrogen at this point. Adding fish emulsion will not correct a nute lockup.

Yes you are correct and my post before states that I don't think you have N def, but lockup because of the brown necrotic patches on the leaves and because yellowing due to N def starts at the bottom leaves always and moves up. You seem to have even yellowing and some necrosis of the leaves starting. N def doesn't do that until the entire leaf yellows and dies.

Again, exactly which PureBlend Pro were you using? See my comments again re: using a nute designed for hydro-organic in soil. I think that may be your lock problem.

I still say flush thoroughly with plain water only and observe. Those worm casting will provide slow release nitrogen so I don't think you are lacking it at this point.

Anyone else have any ideas or comments to add? Updated photos would help to compare the condition of the plants to before. Hard to judge with one photo 'snapshot in time'.

Good luck.

 

[Guest]

yeah, i am using Pure blend pro for soil...and i can take another shot in a day or so since i just took this yesterday, she still looks the same today... I don't understand how it could be a lockout i water with 6.3-6.4 pH everytime??? ok fish emulsion is out of the question then... I am just going to water with fresh water next time it needs water, and let the castings do their job i guess?? sound like a reasonable idea fellas??

 

[Brother_Monk]

What size container is she in? I was thinking perhaps a little rootbound? Maybe chech out this Questionaire , just to see if it will help out in the future. Your opinion matters.

Peace
BM

 

[Guest]

she's in a rose pot, i forget the size, the bato ones...i don't think she's rootbound because she just her new container a week or 2 before flowering...that *could* be a possibility but i highly doubt it...i took that into consideration aswell...if she IS rootbound what should i do besides transplant, that's outta the question this late...

 

[HeadyPete]

Measure the ph of the runoff water.

Soil ph changes water ph and you may need to compensate for it with the water ph. Normal microbial action in soil will change the ph gradually, as well as excess nutrients, additives, supplements unless they are ph balanced.

Add dolomite lime to the soil next mix (follow bag directions for pots). This will help buffer the quick swings of the soil ph. Plants (and aquarium fish) do not like big changes in ph. Gradual changes are always better. Remember 1 ph point on the scale is a change of 10 times the acidity/alkalinity. It is a logarithmic scale.

The pure blend looks fine but I would lay off that now too. Chances are there are plenty of nutrients in the soil for them to finish with.

What colour are the trichomes? Have you looked at them under magnification?

After referring to the Infirmary sticky on sick plants (http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688), it looks like you may have some minor N def but more importantly the beginning of a calcium def:

Note the spotty edges. The yellowing is probably from low N. You do not need nitrogen now anyway and there is nothing wrong with yellowing fan leaves at the end of flowering.

I would make sure the ph of the runoff is balanced.

An interesting note regarding the Pro Blend from the infirmary sticky:

Note: Blood Meal, Dried Blood, Guanos, Kelp Meal, Cotton Seed Meal, Peat Moss, Sulfur and fish meal are all acidic and can bring your ph down, so if you add these please monitor your ph when using those.

and from the PureBlend website:

Derived From:
Fish meal, composted sea bird guano, sea kelp, spirulina, soybean protein extract, rock phosphate, potassium carbonate, magnesium carbonate, calcium carbonate, humic acid*, fulvic acid*, citric acid*, raw sugar cane*, Agrimineral 72 (silica clay extract)*, ami no acids*, B-complex vitamins*, and select botanical plant extracts*.
*Non plant food ingredients

I wonder if the PureBlend is bringing your soil ph down gradually. Do you check the ph of the fert solution before you water? Another possibility is the rather high potassium number in the PureBlend. High K can lock out calcium, according to the sticky. If you fed the bloom too much this could be showing up finally.

Whatever it is I am confident that a thorough flushing and nothing but plain water from here on in will stop this problem and allow your buds to finish nicely.

Good luck!

***Kudos to MynameStitch for an excellent sticky! Thank you.***

 

[Rubberband Man]

Heady, so with nutrient lockout during its early stage, it's normal for bud development to continue to appear unimpeded? I thought that all stages of a plants growth were stunted during a nute lockout. I just want to confirm that I'm hearing you correctly.

 

[Guest]

allright brother, sounds good...it might just be a lockout, yes i do measure the pH before I water, and yes this shit is acadic, it brings the pH way down...i haven't been giving them a full dose of it yet because it brings teh pH so far down and i don't have any pH up right now...I am thinking about ditching the PB line anyways, and going with AN mothers tea, a buddy of mine is growing my strains with it, and they are great looking...imma give it a try...watered one of my posi's with it today guess well see how she does...thanks for your time, I am going to just water with pH'd water next time, and i will check the runoff aswell...she is going to need water tommorow for sure...i will update guys, once again i appreciate your time and effort to help me out, happy tokin!

 

[beancounter]

most of the growers I know who use PBP in flower suppliment the bloom formula with cal-mag or liquid karma..

the cal-mag has additional N aswell..

To me it looks like a N deficiency with a shortage of mg aswell.. It's not even/perfect yellowing like you would see with a straight up N deficiency.

I wouldn't worry to much about it on this run, as adding shit now may do more harm than good with the finished product.. But i would look into using cal-mag (even if at reduced strength) on your next run.

jmho

 

[HeadyPete]

Rubber - At this early stage the growth would not be affected. When the soil ph goes too high or too low then certain nutrients become unavailable to the plant. Which nutrients get locked depends on many factors unique to each plant and it's fert regime, watering, soil, etc. It could be one or many. One could be locked but another may be lacking in the soil and the symptoms appear the same. Although the nutes are locked out, they are still in the soil and can accumulate to toxic levels. One of the biggest mistakes people make is automatically fertilizing for a suspected deficiency when there is plenty of the nutrient in the soil, it's just the plant can't use it. 6.5-7.0 ph is ideal for your soil.

k1lla - ya it loooks like that PB is bringing down the house. I'd agree with trying something else. I grew the CaliOxNL#5 in my gallery with the AN Mother's tea. It is a good base fert to which you can supplement with extra nitrogen (guano, bloodmeal, liquid musky) during veg and phosphorus (bone meal, guano) during bloom as the plant needs. Use Cal-Mag and i also like to give kelp every time I fert. It adds potassium and micronutrients and is just great tonic for plants all around. Beware, ferts (especially organic) can go old and become toxic to your plants so make sure they are fresh and store them in a cool dark place. Always mix half strength of the manufacturer's recommended dosage until you can tell how your plants react.

One more tip is mix in mychorrizae fungi into your soil next time before planting. This fungi grows and attaches to the plant roots and extend out, effectively increasing the root mass of the plant. The fungi gets to use some nutrients from the plant and in return helps the plant take up more nutrients. More roots = bigger buds and this stuff really works. Some soils now come with it in already.

Try to mix you organic soil up a week or two before using to give a chance for the microbes to start doing their thing. The warmer the soil, the better. As you gain experience you can fine tune your soil mix with the proper amount of dry-add ferts for each stage in the plants life. Liquid ferts tend to be fast acting (already composted) and dry ferts mixed in soil are 'slow-acting' because they need to be broken down by the soil microbes before the plants can use them. Give liquids as a supplement to the soil ferts. Ultimately, your plants will show you exactly how they are doing.

No problem with the help. It gives me joy to help people succeed with something that we all love. I consider your plants my plants and I will enjoy seeing them mature and turn into the killa crazy! Sorry about the novel but it's a big subject. Feel free with any other questions.

beancounter - It's possible their is mag def too, but usually mag has the green veins like this:

while I'm not seeing that (yet) here:

What I do see is the start of necrotic patches starting at the edges of the fan leaves. Perhaps the yellowing from the N def has faded the green veins. All in all, there's issues.

Take care guys, stay safe and good luck.

Keep us updated.

Peace.

 

[beancounter]

beancounter - It's possible their is mag def too, but usually mag has the green veins like this:

while I'm not seeing that (yet) here:

What I do see is the start of necrotic patches starting at the edges of the fan leaves. Perhaps the yellowing from the N def has faded the green veins. All in all, there's issues.

Take care guys, stay safe and good luck.

Keep us updated.

Peace.

I agree 100% that his pics don't looks like a typical 'mg only' deficiency, but I do see some slight veining going on, underneath the yellowing from the N deficiency..

A pure N deficiency is a much more even and bright yellow, and the leaves die away in a natural, soft way, no crispyness..

like u said, he has some necrotic patches aswell, which can be from a few things, including lacking micros, particularly mg, calcium and iron, all things present in cal-mag, along with some extra N which he definately needs.. the patches can be dieing from other deficiences, but usualy not associated with a simple N shortage IME..



This is just from my experience in my garden.. the plant does look like it would benefit from calmag alone, N and micros looks like the problem from here.. Also I know many people using PBP use it one almost every feeding, to fix these same problems they ran into with certain strains, and their plants have never looked better..

but this isn't a very serious problem at this point in flower, jus something i would look to avoid in the future..

 

[Guest]

thanks guys for all the positive feedback and the help, I agree with you guys, I think it is a Mg, calcium problem... I am going to water her today, I am still going to just use fresh water that is pH'd... or do you guys think I should add some epsoms or something? i think i might invest in cal-mag for my next grow...is the cal-mag from botanicare, the same people who do pure blend?

 

[HeadyPete]

I''d just use plain water till harvest but you may need cal-mag next grow. Note cal-mag also has some nitrogen in it so adjust your gro dosage accordingly. Yes Cal-Mag is Botanicare.

If it is just nute lock from ph then the cal-mag level in the soil may be fine, just locked up. The most important thing is to make sure the runoff ph is good, then look at amount of ferts. You may not need cal-mag (but probably will -only use if needed) if your new ferts supply enough.

Great advice and help everyone! Thanks!